New Mark of Honor system blows :(

[Yoshimiko]

Irony: this system isn't new.

You used to buy PvP gear with marks from BGs.

You also got 1 mark for losing, 3 marks for winning. Bad example.

OT: Mark of Honor are for old gear. ATM the system is bad because you earn NOTHING for bging EXCEPT marks of honor and shitty 690 gear. However, once you're 110 - this isn't the case. You earn honor. I wouldn't complain *too* much about it right now, since it's not intended to be the main way you get gear.

[Drutt]

I have some sympathy for those in losing streaks. I healed 25 million in a BG last night and my team still lost, because over half the team were complete potatoes.

I usually play with friends so solo losses don't impact me much, but solo queue types who don't know many PVPers won't have a good time with the new system. If something doesn't change those people will just stop queuing entirely, which I doubt it something anyone wants. It'll just slow the queues down and ultimately create a new group of "bottom feeders"...then lather rinse repeat.

[Caolela]

One of the biggest problems with this whole abortion of an xpac is the higher your CR, the better gear drops out of boxes. Better gear = advantage in stats in instanced pvp.

Maybe some of the smart asses here can 'splain why a player who is supposedly better than another player (higher rating) also needs better gear to create an even greater advantage. (?)

Truly better players (those who don't rely on beep boop) will already have the advantage by virtue of their skill. Why exacerbate the gap by further compounding it with a gear advantage? Or are they upset because they can't stomp people in greens anymore?

[Quillgaroo]

Irony: this system isn't new.

You used to buy PvP gear with marks from BGs.

I realise that, I was there. But it was a bad system then, and it is equally as bad now, imho.

And to everyone else: I'm not saying that losing should still reward you with 1337 stuff, but it seems like you forget that I said Marks of Honor, which are used for, as of now, only transmog stuff. So giving these out to the losing team in the same way I previously mentioned, or some completely different way, would mean NOTHING to you. I wouldn't get any better or worse, I wouldn't PWN you more or less. I would simply just get the look I like. Unless you are really petty, it makes absolutely no difference to you.

Edit: So why shouldn't you get some kind of reward for enduring 2,3,5,7 even 10 losses in a row? For arena, sure, if you are not up to the challenge and you perform sub-par. But in a BG where you are relying on 9, 19, again even 24 other people to perform just as well as yourself, you should be compensated for your effort.

Sure right now if you perform well enough, there's a chance that you get a Bronze, Silver or Gold strongbox, but these either CAN'T drop or have an extremly low drop chance of Marks of Honor, which TO ME, is the sole purpose of doing PvP, cause I want the transmog, which again, means nothing to you as a player.

Oh and before you go say that I should just do arena and "git gud": I'm not a 1337 skilled player by any means, but I do know for a fact that I know how a BG is won and I do my best to perform over-par.

[Pvp guy]

@ Caolela, the players don't have to explain anything, Blizz should explain. Slightly better gear is not just ego feed for stomping other players. It's a reward for reaching the level you've played at or that losers pay for. For some though it's a reward for how good you are and it isn't exclusive. Anybody can try

[xhisors]

Irony: this system isn't new.

You used to buy PvP gear with marks from BGs.

Don't remind me. The horror in farming AV tokens.

[Orangetai420]

Its hard if not impossible to carry in a WOW bg expecialy if the other team-players are brain dead and sit there doing nothing

Obviously you aren't going to carry a team of keyboard turners or bots.

Play a healer and you WILL carry a team of decent players.

[Ealyssa]

PvP is not fun at all if you need to win.

yeah it's crazy if you don't have to afk or run like an headless chicken to get a reward...

[Caolela]

@ Caolela, the players don't have to explain anything, Blizz should explain. Slightly better gear is not just ego feed for stomping other players. It's a reward for reaching the level you've played at or that losers pay for. For some though it's a reward for how good you are and it isn't exclusive. Anybody can try

That's right, Blizz should explain. But everything we've ever seen from them is an exercise in PR lies trying to polish up a turd. No matter how much you polish it though it's still a turd.

There is no defensible reason that Player A should get higher ilvl gear as a "reward" than Player B in PvP who might be a few points under. It's not a raid where you're trying to beat the next tougher dragon and need the higher gear. PvP is supposed to be player skill not gear. Rewards should be as they've been - titles, mounts, recolors, etc. that has no bearing on your char power.

It only creates a rift in the rankings and a rigged system of Haves and Have Nots. It will also further encourage cheating to get past the rating wall to get the gear.

[Otimus]

One of the biggest problems with this whole abortion of an xpac is the higher your CR, the better gear drops out of boxes. Better gear = advantage in stats in instanced pvp.

Maybe some of the smart asses here can 'splain why a player who is supposedly better than another player (higher rating) also needs better gear to create an even greater advantage. (?)

Truly better players (those who don't rely on beep boop) will already have the advantage by virtue of their skill. Why exacerbate the gap by further compounding it with a gear advantage? Or are they upset because they can't stomp people in greens anymore?

That's the one thing I really don't understand because the entire point of the new PVP system, I was lead to believe up until they explained that gearing thing, was to make it so no one had an advantage in PVP anymore because of gear.

But instead, there's gear earning advantages and ilvl advantages still. What the hell is even the point?

I mean, I guess it's MUCH lessened, gear wise, which is still good, but it does sure as hell seem defeatist. Like they just weren't willing to totally let go of the system out of gear of either angering some people, or getting rid of one of their skinner boxes.

[Deleted]

If it would only be in premade groups / rated bg etc, I'd disagree: If there only the winning team gets stuff, it's alright.

But for random BGs, it's stupid. A single player can't change much in most random BGs. Losing players shouldn't get as much as those of the winning faction, obviously. But getting nothing in a setup where you don't have all that much control over win/lose? That's not a good system.

[sololux]

The best gear for PvP comes from pve now. Marks are just currency for mog really.

[Alvito]

Irony: this system isn't new.

You used to buy PvP gear with marks from BGs.

Sadly that grind seemed much better then this one. I know it wasn't since you had to play so many games to get marks and had to run certain maps to get the ones you needed.

[Quillgaroo]

If it would only be in premade groups / rated bg etc, I'd disagree: If there only the winning team gets stuff, it's alright.

But for random BGs, it's stupid. A single player can't change much in most random BGs. Losing players shouldn't get as much as those of the winning faction, obviously. But getting nothing in a setup where you don't have all that much control over win/lose? That's not a good system.

You sir, I like you! You get what I am saying.

[Caolela]

That's the one thing I really don't understand because the entire point of the new PVP system, I was lead to believe up until they explained that gearing thing, was to make it so no one had an advantage in PVP anymore because of gear.

But instead, there's gear earning advantages and ilvl advantages still. What the hell is even the point?

I mean, I guess it's MUCH lessened, gear wise, which is still good, but it does sure as hell seem defeatist. Like they just weren't willing to totally let go of the system out of gear of either angering some people, or getting rid of one of their skinner boxes.

They just changed the paint on the skinner boxes, and added a couple of new ones. Then send out their PR drones like [Hair of] Lore and Hoelunky to make it sound good.

[Dilbon]

yeah it's crazy if you don't have to afk or run like an headless chicken to get a reward...

Not that, reward good play whether you win or lose. Better PvP experience for everyone.

[Kreeshak]

Cause in a 10, 20, 25 man BG, I'm the single one to blame for losing ... Riiiight.

Considering I am winning games by a large margin compared to losing games, I would say a single individual can have a great influence on the outcome. The first step to improving is to realize you are not up to the standard. But from your attitude in the quote and the rest of your posts you are just another one of the players that blames their team, while not stepping up and improving his game.

On topic I am glad they don't reward loses. Maybe people can put a tiny tiny little effort into winning instead of annoying others by standing afk, being alt tab or whatever mentality they have when they say "let them win".

- - - Updated - - -

If it would only be in premade groups / rated bg etc, I'd disagree: If there only the winning team gets stuff, it's alright.

But for random BGs, it's stupid. A single player can't change much in most random BGs. Losing players shouldn't get as much as those of the winning faction, obviously. But getting nothing in a setup where you don't have all that much control over win/lose? That's not a good system.

Perhaps *YOU* can't change much. I know several players with impressive win rations in random BGs.

[Deleted]

Perhaps *YOU* can't change much. I know several players with impressive win rations in random BGs.

You're right. I can't change much. I'm bad at PvP. Always was, and probably always will be. Still, on my hunter (the char I did most of PvP mostly in classic - cata), I have a ~70% win ratio in over 500 BGs. Why? Because my faction was just overall better than the other in my battlegroup. Most alliance players in the BGs I've played against were almost certainly better than me. Still they lost a lot more.
So, single players may have a small impact (note that I wrote they can't change much, not nothing at all). But the other 9/14/etc people together will usually have a far bigger outcome on the result than that one person, and that part is out of the control of the player.

But, looking at more info, the discussion isn't really useful, because at 110 the losing team seems to have a chance at those marks depending on their score according to Blizz.

[Deleted]

Says a lot about how entitled players have become that they ask for rewards for losing.

[Cheze]

Says a lot about how entitled players have become that they ask for rewards for losing.

lol, like the 'rewards for losing' that've existed for 8+ years? cmon now

the incentives currently are all screwed up. Right now if the match is obviously one-sided early, there's no real incentive to do anything but try and get it over as quickly as possible. At least in the previous reward structure you could farm some honor on a potatoteam