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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferwyn View Post
    I love these comments. If you mastered them in 30 minutes, no mistakes, perfect gameplay, let's see your logs. Let's see your world rank 1's. Let's see your event log. Let's see what you damaged. Let's see your contribution to the theory crafting. Oh yes you read one guide on Icy Veins, setup your UI, a 10 minutes dummy test and you have "mastered" it in 30 minutes.

    I love people making these claims. All talk and nothing to back it up.

    just a misunderstanding by your part. I'm not talking about mastering it competitively ofc..that takes time. and even then many won`t reach that. but more how long it takes before a person have learned the ropes..and have full control with a rotation in most situations

  2. #242
    Dreadlord lordzed83's Avatar
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    Playing fury if you exclude short 30+s cooldowns is like this

    Bloodthirst --> Raging blow --> rampage 3 button single target rotation + dragon rawr every 30 seconds
    Whirlwind --> Bloodthirst --> whirlwind --> Rampage every 60 rage AOE 2 button rotation

    Welcome to mega gimp 3 button warrior spec LOL
    Geme smtn 2 kielllllll.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferwyn View Post
    I am on the same page. Wildstar has more complex rotations than WoW has ever had in any expansion but it only has 9 per LAS (and more than half of that was mostly utility). I find it embarrassing at this age, people fail to understand that more does not = complex. You can have complex rotations with only 4 or 5 abilities but it depends on how they are treated. The use of temp buffs and debuffs can make a rotation complex as an example.
    It's like you people are 100% incapable of understanding that there is more to the game than raiding and more to a class than its damage rotation (or, there used to be at least).
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  4. #244
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceveda View Post
    Another poster assuming everyone are raiders. Hilarious.
    Oh I am sooo sorry for assuming something based on zero information given. Excuse me for taking the assumption. You don't know the person I quoted is for PVP or PVE. Another poster that assumes everyone is wrong but him. Hilarious.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferwyn View Post
    Oh I am sooo sorry for assuming something based on zero information given. Excuse me for taking the assumption. You don't know the person I quoted is for PVP or PVE. Another poster that assumes everyone is wrong but him. Hilarious.
    Rotations or not, mastering a class shouldn't take 30 minutes.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferwyn View Post
    I am on the same page. Wildstar has more complex rotations than WoW has ever had in any expansion but it only has 9 per LAS (and more than half of that was mostly utility). I find it embarrassing at this age, people fail to understand that more does not = complex. You can have complex rotations with only 4 or 5 abilities but it depends on how they are treated. The use of temp buffs and debuffs can make a rotation complex as an example.
    There is no way to make 9 abilities/class&spec more complex than say WotLK. If you seriously think Wildstar was more complex utility-wise than WoW of old you are delusional (I know you said rotations, but people arn't mainly concerned about rotations, it's the utility that's been pruned). Also Temp debuffs are called DoTs and temp buffs are called HoTs, there are plenty of them in the game and with only 9 abilities there would be far less of them.
    Last edited by RelaZ; 2016-07-26 at 10:49 AM.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    it doesnt as i said every artefact trait can change your rota or prio and the golden ones to the magical word here is CAN ^^
    I'm pretty sure rotations are the least of the concerns of the anti-prune crowd.

    Goremaw's Bite isn't going to make Subtlety interesting to play in PvP again. The problem isn't that we lost a bunch of damage buttons (we didn't), it's all the things we lost that aren't damage.
    Last edited by shoegazing; 2016-07-26 at 10:48 AM.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  8. #248
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    It's like you people are 100% incapable of understanding that there is more to the game than raiding and more to a class than its damage rotation (or, there used to be at least).
    It's like you people are 100% incapable of understanding that raiding/PVE/PVP was even mentioned. What is your argument exactly? The word "rotation" itself has lost meaning over the years. There is no rotation in most modern day MMOs, but a priority system. That applies to PVP and PVE.

    Now read what I wrote again instead of skimming it and taking from it what ever you wanted. As my example for Wildstar, the LAS had you having more than half your LAS as utility. This indicates that I know damn rightly there is more to gameplay than "dps rotation".

    What is your argument exactly? Are you still believing that "more always = complex"?

  9. #249
    The Lightbringer fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordzed83 View Post
    Playing fury if you exclude short 30+s cooldowns is like this

    Bloodthirst --> Raging blow --> rampage 3 button single target rotation + dragon rawr every 30 seconds
    Whirlwind --> Bloodthirst --> whirlwind --> Rampage every 60 rage AOE 2 button rotation

    Welcome to mega gimp 3 button warrior spec LOL
    So if you have no idea how to play fury, its a 3 button spec. OK.

  10. #250
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    Once again people pretending they were playing in vanilla. No you did not use 100% of your spell book in pvp. Dont pretend you were using corruption rank 1 to 7 all the time. I guess you argue you used life tap 5 sometimes.
    No one has claimed you were using 100% of your spell book in PvP

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by RelaZ View Post
    There is no way to make 9 abilities/class&spec more complex than say WotLK. If you seriously think Wildstar was more complex utility-wise than WoW of old you are delusional (I know you said rotations, but people arn't mainly concerned about rotations, it's the utility that's been pruned). Also Temp debuffs are called DoTs and temp buffs are called HoTs, there are plenty of them in the game and with only 9 abilities there would be far less of them.
    If you think that "temp debuffs" are DoTs and "temp buffs" are HoTs, you are kind of stupid.

    But then again, you think WotLK had complex classes, so you probably are.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferwyn View Post
    It's like you people are 100% incapable of understanding that raiding/PVE/PVP was even mentioned. What is your argument exactly? The word "rotation" itself has lost meaning over the years. There is no rotation in most modern day MMOs, but a priority system. That applies to PVP and PVE.

    Now read what I wrote again instead of skimming it and taking from it what ever you wanted. As my example for Wildstar, the LAS had you having more than half your LAS as utility. This indicates that I know damn rightly there is more to gameplay than "dps rotation".

    What is your argument exactly? Are you still believing that "more always = complex"?
    So do you deny that most of what was pruned falls on the situational/niche/utility/CC end of the spectrum?

    Our argument is very, very simple. Classes are more oriented around "just do damage" than before with reduced options beyond "just do damage".
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevene View Post
    PvP required you to use 100% of your spells.
    You used eagle eye in arenas (I can see this in rbgs)? You used tame beast? Feed pet? Beast lore? Some spells are for "flavor" and not going to be used in pvp. So yes, ~90% of the spell book was used then and is now.

  14. #254
    Pvp talents!

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    it doesnt as i said every artefact trait can change your rota or prio and the golden ones to, the magical word here is CAN ^^

    the artifact at large doesn`t add anything to the gameplay or game..except drag out peoples progression. blizzard are so incredible defensive through every new thing they come up with its just baffling.

    It seems every new feature that have promise... are beat down with stupid/prune stick until there is nothing left but a shell of the original idea
    Last edited by wooters; 2016-07-26 at 10:56 AM.

  16. #256
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystile View Post
    You used eagle eye in arenas (I can see this in rbgs)? You used tame beast? Feed pet? Beast lore? Some spells are for "flavor" and not going to be used in pvp. So yes, ~90% of the spell book was used then and is now.
    You're just being dishonest, it was kind of obvious I was talking about combat abilities, non-combat abilities weren't even in the scope of the prune

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    thats right but i dont think many buttons helps you i play since classic and it was awefull to have so many useless spells all the time the pruning has the goal to make it more interesting and for me it works pretty good.
    1. what is awful about having "useless" spells? why not just take them off your bars and forget about them?

    2. just because they were useless to you doesn't mean they were useless to other players. you just want to drag everyone else down to your level and force them to play the same way that you do.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  18. #258
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RelaZ View Post
    There is no way to make 9 abilities/class&spec more complex than say WotLK. If you seriously think Wildstar was more complex utility-wise than WoW of old you are delusional (I know you said rotations, but no one is really complaining about rotations, it's the utility that's been pruned). Also Temp debuffs are called DoTs and temp buffs are called HoTs, there are plenty of them in the game and with only 9 abilities there would be far less of them.
    Lol you are the idiot not me. A buff to a player is not a HoT. HoT stands for "heal over time". Using X ability, giving you a buff that increases your damage, is not a HoT lol. DoT stands for Damage Over Time. Using X ability to reduce the run speed of someone is not a damage, but a debuff. Do you even play WoW? Your lack of knowledge of how the game works make me wonder if you even do. Your argument for "being less" just means you lack the creativity to make a complex gameplay out of a limited amount of abilities.

    And yes, classes in WOTLK were a lot easier than they were in MoP or WoD (can't say legion as it is not out yet and I have not played all classes yet).

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferwyn View Post
    It's like you people are 100% incapable of understanding that raiding/PVE/PVP was even mentioned. What is your argument exactly? The word "rotation" itself has lost meaning over the years. There is no rotation in most modern day MMOs, but a priority system. That applies to PVP and PVE.

    Now read what I wrote again instead of skimming it and taking from it what ever you wanted. As my example for Wildstar, the LAS had you having more than half your LAS as utility. This indicates that I know damn rightly there is more to gameplay than "dps rotation".

    What is your argument exactly? Are you still believing that "more always = complex"?
    In PvP, we don't have raid mechanics to react to, but players, thats our main content, countering one another. So yes, more = complex, when classes' toolkits are huge there's always something to react to and things you can do differently. Pruning leaves us with empty toolboxes, which results in scripted, unfun and one-dimensional gameplay.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    If you think that "temp debuffs" are DoTs and "temp buffs" are HoTs, you are kind of stupid.

    But then again, you think WotLK had complex classes, so you probably are.
    Well I'll agree temp de-/buffs are more than just HoTs and DoTs, but they mainly are. I wrote to quickly.

    Compared to Legion WotLK had amazingly well designed and complex classes. Sure rotations might have been worse but then again, WotLK actually had utility, unlike Legion. It's like you people don't even think anything outside of damage related abilities exist (well, they don't in Legion).

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