[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[meob]

RJW would be better on any fight with adds

Not even sure on this one. Atleast in dungeons, with everything dead by 20 seconds you're still better off using hit combo for additional damage on SCK, FoF and WDP. RJW has been 10-12% of the total damage, hit combo is 16% :S

[archkiller]

Is ascension now the worst talents out of energizing elixir and power strike?

[Deleted]

Is ascension now the worst talents out of energizing elixir and power strike?

I don't know the exact numbers, but it feels like it is pretty much useless now. You cap energy all the time, so their is no need for additional energy.

[Lucrece]

Not even sure on this one. Atleast in dungeons, with everything dead by 20 seconds you're still better off using hit combo for additional damage on SCK, FoF and WDP. RJW has been 10-12% of the total damage, hit combo is 16% :S

Yeah, but this is prepatch in dungeons with overgeared people.

[Xiaojin]

Is ascension now the worst talents out of energizing elixir and power strike?

Quick napkin math: EE provides up to 5 chi and up to 100 energy (= 4 chi) every minute. You will never gain the full benefit (9 chi/min) out of EE, but even at 50% efficiency (it's not too hard to do better than that) it's already better than PS, which gives you 4 chi/min.

For Ascension to be equal to PS (4 chi/min), you need enough haste so that 10% of your energy regeneration times 60sec equals 100 energy (=4 chi). I.e., you need 16.6 energy/sec regeneration which you get with 66% haste. So you'd pretty much need to invest all your secondary stats into haste for Ascension to be equally good as PS, which is still inferior to EE. Even without simming I doubt that this is a good gearing decision and I'm not sure if that point is even reachable in the first tier (or at all during the expansion).

As much as I love Ascension in terms of gameplay, EE is just way too strong compared to the other talents in that row, and even PS beats Ascension under ideal conditions. Non-ideal conditions tend to favor PS and EE as well I think (if you can't continuously spend energy, e.g., because the boss moved out of range).

[Lucrece]

Anyone made a working macro for instant fixate the moment you summon the SEF clones?

Did a UBRS and to my unpleasant surprise the idiotic clone immediately jumped to one of the flying dragons and fell to the lava below the platform even as I immediately pressed fixate after they were summoned, which caused me to be stuck with 2 clones instead of 3.

This substitute for TEB is gonna be so "fun"...

Latency spikes are also gonna suck for this spec, abilities activating twice under sudden increases in latency is gonna make Hit Combo a PITA, which makes RJW all that more desirable.

[Staggered]

You sure about only stacking to 5? In the database, it stacks to 6 stacks. I know there was a bug where Rising sun kick was removing a stack but gaining 2 stack (so a net of 1 stack if there was a buff prior to RSK being cast). Where-as Fists of Fury was not removing stacks but gaining 3 stacks. So Rising Sun Kick -> FoF -> RSK proc = 6 stacks. As for the 10 second duration, that does not surprise me given that Mistweavers were able to abuse the set bonus by getting a stack pre-pull, switch to mistweaver spec and able to hold onto the 10% mastery buff if they didn't use any melee attacks.

Sorry for the delayed response - on beta I was able to get 6 stacks, but on Live I was only getting to 5. This could be complete RNG based, so I will say that it is possible to stack to 6. The stacks count won't be an issue as you will be using them during fights, its more so the duration change to 10 seconds that I wanted to point out since I never saw it documented as a change. It makes sense as to why they changed it.

[Deleted]

Anyone made a working macro for instant fixate the moment you summon the SEF clones?

Did a UBRS and to my unpleasant surprise the idiotic clone immediately jumped to one of the flying dragons and fell to the lava below the platform even as I immediately pressed fixate after they were summoned, which caused me to be stuck with 2 clones instead of 3.

This substitute for TEB is gonna be so "fun"...

Latency spikes are also gonna suck for this spec, abilities activating twice under sudden increases in latency is gonna make Hit Combo a PITA, which makes RJW all that more desirable.

Yeah, exactly this... The clones take way too much time until they actualy start doing damage, it's awful.

[HHHGame78]

Yeah, exactly this... The clones take way too much time until they actualy start doing damage, it's awful.

Blizz should change it to where the cd and timer doesn't start until they hit an enemy. Just a thought.

[kalaratic]

has anyone found any practical use for death art in raids? is there any way to increase the amount of touch of deaths casted per fight by using it to finish off something like a strong priority add that spawns? i figure if there is a use for the trait, it wouldn't be in a ST fight that has like 1 add since it kinda fucks up timing it with serenity. but if there was a way to make use of it in a fight where we run SEF it would be a lot easier to hold a charge for it when it comes up quicker.

idk if i'm giving it too much credit or not, since you do have to kill the mob with the damage to see any use of it which is super risky but i do wonder if there are any super niche situations where you can milk out another ToD.

[Babylonius]

has anyone found any practical use for death art in raids? is there any way to increase the amount of touch of deaths casted per fight by using it to finish off something like a strong priority add that spawns? i figure if there is a use for the trait, it wouldn't be in a ST fight that has like 1 add since it kinda fucks up timing it with serenity. but if there was a way to make use of it in a fight where we run SEF it would be a lot easier to hold a charge for it when it comes up quicker.

idk if i'm giving it too much credit or not, since you do have to kill the mob with the damage to see any use of it which is super risky but i do wonder if there are any super niche situations where you can milk out another ToD.

The trait is mostly a safety net. There may be a way to use the trait and the ToD Legendary to get casts back, but that remains to be seen and tested once Legion is out.

[v1perz53]

As people have mentioned above regarding SEF, I am disliking the design more and more the longer I use it. If one of the initial targets is far away it takes a decent chunk of time for your clone to travel back, and if you accidentally use an ability while they are midair they wont copy it. And because they jump every ability, in a spread AoE situation they often only copy every other attack. Ends up being really punishing of mistakes given how much of our damage is locked behind a few bursty abilities on CDs, and the fact that we personally hit for less with SEF up. I still think it should be you doing 100% damage and each clone doing 15% damage, and I also think SEF and SEF: Fixate should be two separate abilities so you could chose whether you want them to start spread or fixated. Almost 0 hope this will get fixed though, but I mainly PvP as WW and PvE as BrM, and Serenity is more appealing to me PvP wise so it might not affect me after all. SEF is pretty bad design from a PvP (arena) standpoint so even if Serenity is numerically better it would prob fall behind in use for PvP.

I don't know the exact numbers, but it feels like it is pretty much useless now. You cap energy all the time, so their is no need for additional energy.

I definitely never even come close to capping energy on the 110 PvP premade with max artifact when testing (running Ascension/HitCombo/WDP), but I still don't feel like Ascension has much place. The one thing it could've had going for it was if it allowed you to do something more with burst by using the extra chi, but Energizing Elixir just does all that but better. You would think the extra chi would help fit in more big attacks during the Gale Burst window, but even with it you are one chi short from being able to FoF/RSK/SotW without using any TPs, while with Energizing Elixir you can fit them all in without using TP, and with WDP it gives you a pretty nice overall ability to fit FoF/RKS/SotW/WDP right into the 8 second window. Sucks, because I personally like Ascension and don't like EE at all (an ability that wastes resources by design irritates me, I'd prefer 5 chi on a 45 sec CD or something).

[infinitemeridian]

Personally, I'm not finding much use for EE outside of the initial pull. I'm only about 665 ilvl, but I always have enough chi/energy (ST at least) to use my abilities when they come off cooldown. Seems like I would get more bang for my buck with power strikes.

[meob]

Personally, I'm not finding much use for EE outside of the initial pull. I'm only about 665 ilvl, but I always have enough chi/energy (ST at least) to use my abilities when they come off cooldown. Seems like I would get more bang for my buck with power strikes.

Using one SEF charge on your opener, popping EE, You can have SEF/FoF/RSK/WDP - just everything - on cd the first time one or two seconds into the pull. Ascension is 1-2 Tiger Palms a minute, EE is chi/energy whenever you actually need it or just more BoKs after big abilities instead when used almost on cd.

[v1perz53]

Personally, I'm not finding much use for EE outside of the initial pull. I'm only about 665 ilvl, but I always have enough chi/energy (ST at least) to use my abilities when they come off cooldown. Seems like I would get more bang for my buck with power strikes.

The thing is Energy and Chi are not of equal value. On the premade 110s TP hits for 24k and BK, your worst spender hits for 84k. So you gain massive damage any time you can substitute chi abilities for TPs. Power strikes with optimal conditions generates 4 chi per minute, EE generates 5 plus whatever energy, so it is superior in terms of Chi and Energy generation. Even using EE at full energy is a DPS gain over power strikes, and it definitely isn't hard to get to 0 chi with all the varied cost spenders we have. Honestly it seems to me like Asc and PS are way undertuned currently, they got hit a bit hard by the passives=worse tax.

[Deleted]

I definitely never even come close to capping energy on the 110 PvP premade with max artifact when testing (running Ascension/HitCombo/WDP), but I still don't feel like Ascension has much place. The one thing it could've had going for it was if it allowed you to do something more with burst by using the extra chi, but Energizing Elixir just does all that but better. You would think the extra chi would help fit in more big attacks during the Gale Burst window, but even with it you are one chi short from being able to FoF/RSK/SotW without using any TPs, while with Energizing Elixir you can fit them all in without using TP, and with WDP it gives you a pretty nice overall ability to fit FoF/RKS/SotW/WDP right into the 8 second window. Sucks, because I personally like Ascension and don't like EE at all (an ability that wastes resources by design irritates me, I'd prefer 5 chi on a 45 sec CD or something).

I was talking about Pre-patch situation, but yeah, even when I was raid testing in legion, Ascencion still didn't feel particulary useful. Not after BoK only costs 1 chi, you are rarely at a point where an extra chi would feel necesery. Energizing, as much as I don't like it, does it much better for you.

[Megabloks]

Has anyone tested the Infernal Alchemist Stone on beta? It doesn't seem to have a 55 second ICD like the previous versions, it seems to be rppm, not sure if intended.

10 min log of hitting dummies
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...auras&source=1

[Xiaojin]

Personally, I'm not finding much use for EE outside of the initial pull. I'm only about 665 ilvl, but I always have enough chi/energy (ST at least) to use my abilities when they come off cooldown. Seems like I would get more bang for my buck with power strikes.

It's not too difficult to keep FoF/RSK/WDP on CD even without any of the chi generation talents. But the more chi/energy you have, the more BoKs you can weave in between those abilities. Try to weave in two BoKs between any two TPs whenever possible (without dropping Combo Strikes/Hit Combo). Example: you are at 2 chi, your last ability was something other than TP and RSK is coming off CD in 3-4sec. Try using TP -> BoK -> RSK (wait 1sec if necessary) -> Bok -> TP. If you weave in enough BoKs this way (without delaying FoF/RSK/WDP, of course) you will find yourself in situations in which you have to wait for resources to regenerate and thus have some empty GCDs. I haven't tried PS since the pre-patch yet, but I guess you will hit those situations with every talent. At least I did with both EE (while it was still on CD from the last use) and Ascension.

My guess is that using just the right amount of BoKs (use it as often as possible without delaying other, more important stuff and without losing Combo Strikes) is one aspect that will seperate good WWs from not so good WWs. The difference won't be huge, but there will be a difference.

TL;DR: I think you're not using all opportunities to weave in BoKs into your rotation.

[Staggered]

Is there a working WW monk module for SimC yet? I can't seem to get mine to work.

EDIT - nvm, just updated it and it worked.

[Pandragon]

This might seem stupid to ask. Cause i know leveling generally doesnt matter. But when i do something, i want to do it int he most optimal way possible. So, I have all this fish from getting the turtles. What food would best serve leveling?