Gun pulled in theater over a fight and how the media lies.

[Dug]

The actual fuck???? So now self defense training is marketing fear? YOu think that getting punched in the head and face is all good and fine, that serious injury or death can not happen from it? Son you need to join the real world, cause your gonna have a bad time.

I didn't say it can't not happen all I'm saying is that of course they're going to say your life is in danger (when it probably isn't) because that's what pulls people to learn self defense. Reality is that most people end up on the ground in a sweaty, tired struggle trying to one up the other before people come and pull them apart. Rarely are you going to get someone throwing straight punches to the dome and the other guy just taking it. It does happen but not at enough frequency to really be scared of it imo

[Citizen T]

It really doesn't matter if he was charged or investigated, he is the one that is blamed for this by the police. You can keep nit picking all you want, but its a fact that the father went free.

Everyone is responsible for their actions, but we should hold higher standards to people who are allowed to run around with guns then the standards we apply to 14 year olds. And this is something you keep ignoring.

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Aaaw out off arguments?? xD

Let's start with asking you at what point in age do we start to expect appropriate behavior? I know my children were expected to behave appropriately several years younger than this "child." In this situation, I'd have apologized to the guy (regardless of his actions) and reprimanded my child for their behavior.

Secondly, whether or not the person is armed is immaterial. We should always expect adults to behave better than children.

[unholytestament]

It really doesn't matter if he was charged or investigated,

Yet you keep bringing it up...

he is the one that is blamed for this by the police. You can keep nit picking all you want, but its a fact that the father went free.

And if the old man goes free too? What then?

Everyone is responsible for their actions,

But we're going to ignore the actions of the child and his father allowing it because SOMEONE HAD A GUN!

but we should hold higher standards to people who are allowed to run around with guns then the standards we apply to 14 year olds.

So this statement immediately throws the last one you made out the window.

And this is something you keep ignoring.

No, I have been blaming the father from the start.

As much as? Good. I'm glad we're in agreement that the child initiated this whole ordeal.

And since the father is responsible for the child's actions he is at fault.

See?

Aaaw out off arguments?? xD

Are you?

You seem to think it's okay to ignore everything that happened before the old man's outburst all while talking about people being responsible for their actions.

[Deleted]

Let's start with asking you at what point in age do we start to expect appropriate behavior? I know my children were expected to behave appropriately several years younger than this "child." In this situation, I'd have apologized to the guy (regardless of his actions) and reprimanded my child for their behavior.

Secondly, whether or not the person is armed is immaterial. We should always expect adults to behave better than children.

You can expect children to behave from an earlier age then this, but don't they ever misbehave? The point is, it is still a child, as an adult you should be above this. Of course you should correct your children when they fuck up like this, but that is when you know this is happening. When you have not noticed it and some guy jumps up and starts yelling at your kid the first thing you would do is protect your kid.
It all really depends on how the situation went, but ive got to give the parent the benifit of the doubt here because the old man clearly should have acted more responsible given the situation.

We should always expect adults to behave better then children, but this goes double for people who are allowed to run around with guns. We should held them to higher standards.

[TZucchini]

He pulled it out after he was getting his ass kicked, that's a big difference than just whipping it out.

Look. Now you're making shit up. The article makes no mention of the man "getting his ass kicked." All it says is the father got the "upper hand in the fight."

And pulling out a gun after initiating violence is probably illegal. The father was defending his person.

[Dystemper]

I didn't say it can't not happen all I'm saying is that of course they're going to say your life is in danger (when it probably isn't) because that's what pulls people to learn self defense. Reality is that most people end up on the ground in a sweaty, tired struggle trying to one up the other before people come and pull them apart. Rarely are you going to get someone throwing straight punches to the dome and the other guy just taking it. It does happen but not at enough frequency to really be scared of it imo

And what is your subject matter expertise on this? Because you think that will happen? Very rarely these days does anyone attempt to break up a fight , they would rather video tape it and not get involved. And all it takes is a single punch to the head or you hitting the ground wrong to end up brain damaged, crippled or dead. This happens a great deal more hen you realize. It is just not reported. I have seen fractured jaws, cheeks and oribital sockets. I have seen peoples eyes actually knocked out of their sockets dangling by the optic nerves. I knew a guy who took a solid hit in the temple and now is disabled from brain damage.

The simple fact is if you are in a physical fight, you dont have the time to think that it is going to just be broken up and hope that people try to stop it. You dont have the luxury of hindsight. TYou are fighting for your life and safety.

[unholytestament]

You can expect children to behave from an earlier age then this, but don't they ever misbehave? The point is, it is still a child, as an adult you should be above this. Of course you should correct your children when they fuck up like this, but that is when you know this is happening. When you have not noticed it and some guy jumps up and starts yelling at your kid the first thing you would do is protect your kid.
It all really depends on how the situation went, but ive got to give the parent the benifit of the doubt here because the old man clearly should have acted more responsible given the situation.

So we're back to pretending the father couldn't tell his teenager was acting out?

Care to finally address how the old man probably wouldn't be able to tell it's a teenager for the same reasons the father didn't notice?

We should always expect adults to behave better then children, but this goes double for people who are allowed to run around with guns. We should held them to higher standards.

And by that you're holding the teenager and the father to no standards and ignoring everything they did and didn't do and should have done.

[Deleted]

Yet you keep bringing it up...

And if the old man goes free too? What then?

But we're going to ignore the actions of the child and his father allowing it because SOMEONE HAD A GUN!

So this statement immediately throws the last one you made out the window.

No, I have been blaming the father from the start.

See?

Are you?

You seem to think it's okay to ignore everything that happened before the old man's outburst all while talking about people being responsible for their actions.

You mad bro???

It doesn't matter because it had nothign to do with the point i was making, so it was not moving any goal post. It is just you being pissed off.
And you keep ignoring that you can not hold a 14 year old to the same standards as people who are allowed to carry guns. Blaming the father for what a child does isn't the same as holding a 14 year old to other standard as someone who is able to carry guns. Nice strawman though.

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So we're back to pretending the father couldn't tell his teenager was acting out?

Care to finally address how the old man probably wouldn't be able to tell it's a teenager for the same reasons the father didn't notice?

And by that you're holding the teenager and the father to no standards and ignoring everything did and didn't do and should have done.

I do not need to address that because the guy should have never acted the way he did, regardless of who is behind him. I have told you this.

[MattEffect]

When I went to see the final Harry Potter film I was excited, but then it happened, a young man sat in front of me wearing a Fedora. My excitement turned to confusion. The only thing that saved this young man from my persecution was the "inner mockologue" that I started. I wondered what thought process was going through his un-accessorized head when he decided the perfect outfit addition for going to the movie theater was this Fedora, resting comfortably and extending his head a good 4-5 inches higher, protruding into my vision of the screen. He was on a date and I wondered if she had thought the same thing as me. Maybe she was drowning in regret for having once told him that she liked the hat. Maybe she encouraged him to buy it in the first place trapping herself in this deadly Fedora web.

There are tons of movie ruining experiences, unrestrained children, babies, snorers, phone users, people who are sick and coughing, but nothing tops a person sitting in front of you wearing a Fedora.

[unholytestament]

You mad bro???

This is the guy accusing others of running out of arguments.

It doesn't matter because it had nothign to do with the point i was making, so it was not moving any goal post. It is just you being pissed off.

You repeatedly bringing up terms that are either factually incorrect or different from the ones you used earlier is me being pissed off? How does that work?

And you keep ignoring that you can not hold a 14 year old to the same standards as people who are allowed to carry guns.

I was blaming the father...

Blaming the father for what a child does isn't the same as holding a 14 year old to the same standard as someone who is able to carry guns.

I know that. Which is why I was blaming the father.

Nice strawman though.

This is a strawman. You are literally arguing against points I just told you I'm not making. The child initiated it, the father was responsible. There were multiple points at which the father could have easily stopped it by acting like a responsible adult.

And coming from a guy who just made a post loaded with ad hominem this is pretty rich.

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I do not need to address that because the guy should have never acted the way he did, regardless of who is behind him. I have told you this.

Why is the onus on the old man? There were multiple factors leading up to his outburst.

[Citizen T]

You can expect children to behave from an earlier age then this, but don't they ever misbehave? The point is, it is still a child, as an adult you should be above this. Of course you should correct your children when they fuck up like this, but that is when you know this is happening. When you have not noticed it and some guy jumps up and starts yelling at your kid the first thing you would do is protect your kid.
It all really depends on how the situation went, but ive got to give the parent the benifit of the doubt here because the old man clearly should have acted more responsible given the situation.

We should always expect adults to behave better then children, but this goes double for people who are allowed to run around with guns. We should held them to higher standards.

No, it does not go double for "people whow are allowed to run around for guns." My rights are in no way diminished just because I'm exercising my second amendment rights. Or are you saying that those who are unarmed have more rights than I do? By holding me to a higher standard because I'm armed, you are either diminishing my rights or giving others more rights.

[munkeyinorbit]

30, how is that relevant?

I think he is wondering why someone would act like a child on the internet. The answer is clearly Canada. No. I mean it is clearly because it is the Internet.

[Deleted]

This is the guy accusing others of running out of arguments.

You repeatedly bringing up terms that are either factually incorrect or different from the ones you used earlier is me being pissed off? How does that work?

I was blaming the father...

I know that. Which is why I was blaming the father.

This is a strawman. You are literally arguing against points I just told you I'm not making. The child initiated it, the father was responsible. There were multiple points at which the father could have easily stopped it by acting like a responsible adult.

And coming from a guy who just made a post loaded with ad hominem this is pretty rich.

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Why is the onus on the old man? There were multiple factors leading up to his outburst.

Facts that have nothing to do at all with the argument, its like arguing if his shirt was blue or green.

The next bit i correct, i meant to different standards. But fact remains, you are blaming someone who you are not sure off if he really knew about the situation. Over a guy who acted irresponsible no matter how you put it.

The strawman is you trying to blame the parent, when the parent might even not have know what was going on. You keep saying that he did know, but that is just speculation.

Why is the onus on the old man?? You really have to ask??
1 He is an adult, he should know better.
2 He should not have started out cussing, this is not something an adult does. Specially when armed, we do expect more from people with guns.
3 He is the only one who could have avoided all of this by remaining civil and with that not working go to the usher.

It really doesn't matter what other people do, but you should remain civil. You keep pointing at the dad, but there is really nothing in the article pointing at him other then him aiding his son. We do not even know what the guy said or how he said it, it might have been very offensive, we don't know.

[Dug]

And what is your subject matter expertise on this? Because you think that will happen? Very rarely these days does anyone attempt to break up a fight , they would rather video tape it and not get involved. And all it takes is a single punch to the head or you hitting the ground wrong to end up brain damaged, crippled or dead. This happens a great deal more hen you realize. It is just not reported. I have seen fractured jaws, cheeks and oribital sockets. I have seen peoples eyes actually knocked out of their sockets dangling by the optic nerves. I knew a guy who took a solid hit in the temple and now is disabled from brain damage.

The simple fact is if you are in a physical fight, you dont have the time to think that it is going to just be broken up and hope that people try to stop it. You dont have the luxury of hindsight. TYou are fighting for your life and safety.

Common sense really, your average person is not a professional MMA fighter and the chance of them landing a punch that disables you is pretty low. People inexperienced with fighting will just throw wild punches that lead to no where and even if they land they don't do that much damage. As I said, even watching those shitty street fight videos people almost always end up on the floor in a stupid rub fest and leads nowhere. I'm sure you've "seen things" but that doesn't make it some epidemic or even on the rise.

There's nothing wrong with learning self defense but lets stop pretending that the whole marketing of it isn't based on fear. Fear isn't an inherently bad thing

[Deleted]

No, it does not go double for "people whow are allowed to run around for guns." My rights are in no way diminished just because I'm exercising my second amendment rights. Or are you saying that those who are unarmed have more rights than I do? By holding me to a higher standard because I'm armed, you are either diminishing my rights or giving others more rights.

Yes it does, you need a licence for it. When you are as unstable as this you should not be having a gun on you.
This isn't about rights, it is about responsibility.

[Citizen T]

Yes it does, you need a licence for it. When you are as unstable as this you should not be having a gun on you.
This isn't about rights, it is about responsibility.

Whether or not you need a license is dependent on where you are at the time. There are some states that do not require a license for conceal carry, and many others that do no require a license for open carry (Kentucky is one of these). The story says nothing about whether he was carrying concealed or open but I'll admit it was likely conceal carry. Yelling/cussing at a kid doesn't necessarily make you unstable it makes you an asshole. If being an asshole at any point in your life prevents one from getting a carry license then pretty much no one ever would qualify.

I'll refute the idea of him being unstable by the mere fact that he was escorted out of the cinema and waited for the police to arrive. If he was unstable it's highly unlikely that he would be calm and even handed with adrenaline pumping as it would have been at that time.

[Deleted]

Whether or not you need a license is dependent on where you are at the time. There are some states that do not require a license for conceal carry, and many others that do no require a license for open carry (Kentucky is one of these). The story says nothing about whether he was carrying concealed or open but I'll admit it was likely conceal carry. Yelling/cussing at a kid doesn't necessarily make you unstable it makes you an asshole. If being an asshole at any point in your life prevents one from getting a carry license then pretty much no one ever would qualify.

I'll refute the idea of him being unstable by the mere fact that he was escorted out of the cinema and waited for the police to arrive. If he was unstable it's highly unlikely that he would be calm and even handed with adrenaline pumping as it would have been at that time.

And it is precisely on that part that the Europeans are talking about when discussing gun control. It is ludicrous to have everyone who wants to run around with a gun do exactly that. Its really simple, if you can't act like an adult you should not be able to carry a gun in my opinion.

Yelling and cussing for something like this to me is more then enough reason to call him unstable, at least, unstable enough to not run around with a gun.

[unholytestament]

Facts that have nothing to do at all with the argument, its like arguing if his shirt was blue or green.

Wow... This is especially weird given the fact that you spend the rest of this post accusing me of making assumptions about the situation.

The next bit i correct, i meant to different standards. But fact remains, you are blaming someone who you are not sure off if he really knew about the situation. Over a guy who acted irresponsible no matter how you put it.

Except someone would have to have impacted hearing or vision to not notice a teenager next to them kicking a seat in front of them. Your senses are literally wired to pay the most attention to what is happening in front of you, and unless this theater had unusually spacious seating then I just don't buy the father not being able to notice.

But I can fully buy him choosing to ignore it. Seems to go in line with a guy who would fist fight in defense of their child acting like a dick.

The strawman is you trying to blame the parent, when the parent might even not have know what was going on. You keep saying that he did know, but that is just speculation.

That's not what strawman means...

Why is the onus on the old man?? You really have to ask??
1 He is an adult, he should know better.

I thought the father was an adult too. My math is telling he me he has to be one if he has a 14-year-old.

2 He should not have started out cussing, this is not something an adult does.

He didn't start anything. He was reacting. And adults swear. It's rude, but adults do it.

You want to know to know what else adults do? Monitor their children.

Specially when armed, we do expect more from people with guns.

No. Being armed changes nothing. We expect responsible handling of the gun, but that does not prevent them from pointing out someone acting like a dick and someone else allowing it to happen. You do not lose the right to complain by carrying a gun.

3 He is the only one who could have avoided all of this by remaining civil and with that not working go to the usher.

Except the teenager kicking his chair and the father allowing it to happen.

It really doesn't matter what other people do, but you should remain civil.

Unless someone else has a gun. Then you can be a dick and sit there doing nothing to stop the people you're responsible for from doing it.

You keep pointing at the dad, but there is really nothing in the article pointing at him other then him aiding his son. We do not even know what the guy said or how he said it, it might have been very offensive, we don't know.

The article doesn't have to point to him. I am accusing him of inaction. There would be nothing to point to.

Yelling and cussing for something like this to me is more then enough reason to call him unstable, at least, unstable enough to not run around with a gun.

Getting annoyed and swearing at a child is not a crime. It is not an indication of instability. People snap at things that annoy them. This is why people praise those that can handle it in a calm and even manner.

[Citizen T]

Yes you can. If we required gun owners to received training maybe they would learn WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES OF PEOPLE WHO USE LETHAL FORCE.

FYI, THAT ISN'T GETTING PUNCHED A FEW TIMES.

I mostly agree with you on this. I have to take a couple of exceptions though.

This man did not USE lethal force. He threatened it by brandishing his firearm so it's not quite the same thing. In this case it immediately deescalated the situation but could have theoretically escalated it further if the other man had been armed.

Also "getting punched a few times" could be enough if the attacker came out of nowhere and just attacked you for no discernible reason. Unfortunately in today's society this happens and cannot be discounted.

[zenkai]

Yes you can. If we required gun owners to receive training maybe they would learn WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES OF PEOPLE WHO USE LETHAL FORCE.

FYI, THAT ISN'T GETTING PUNCHED A FEW TIMES.

He didn't use lethal force.

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Look. Now you're making shit up. The article makes no mention of the man "getting his ass kicked." All it says is the father got the "upper hand in the fight."

And pulling out a gun after initiating violence is probably illegal. The father was defending his person.

I say getting the upper hand on a 64 year old man is logical to believe he was getting his ass kicked