My experience as elemental in BGs in a nutshell

[Socialhealer]

Kazela, well that followed by giving it to mages for Scorch. Because, reasons.

mages must always be better than shamans rule 1.

[Kralljin]

At least at that time, ele had the now-blasphemous castable-while-moving Lightning Bolt so they could at least try and get away while fighting back.

Lightning Bolt on the move was never something that made Ele awesome in PvP.

Lava Bursts hitting for 60% of an enemies HP (Wotlk) and farting out Instant Lvb's made it awesome(MoP).

[Deleted]

Kralljin, no but it gave ele sustained DPS while fleeing and at least a chance to kite the enemy every now and then without losing all their damage. A melee chasing an ele will still deal damage, in many cases quite. An ele trying to get away most of the time wont.

Looking at the new shocks, they actually made that issue worse. Alongside the removal on fireshock came a drastic lowering of it's likelihood to trigger the instant LvB. Which means you'll get far fewer in most settings.

[Socialhealer]

Kralljin, no but it gave ele sustained DPS while fleeing and at least a chance to kite the enemy every now and then without losing all their damage. A melee chasing an ele will still deal damage, in many cases quite. An ele trying to get away most of the time wont.

Looking at the new shocks, they actually made that issue worse. Alongside the removal on fireshock came a drastic lowering of it's likelihood to trigger the instant LvB. Which means you'll get far fewer in most settings.

but but but we can spam frost shock on the enemy slowing them, but we'll also be slowed, but wait we have gust of wind, and they only have 2-3 gap closers so, yeh just stand still and cast running is a just a dps loss, and no survival gain.

[Kazgrel]

Lightning Bolt on the move was never something that made Ele awesome in PvP.

Lava Bursts hitting for 60% of an enemies HP (Wotlk) and farting out Instant Lvb's made it awesome(MoP).

It was part of the package in MoP, though, but yes, when able to fling lava bursts that actually fit the definition of burst damage, be they the massive chunks determined by a cooldown (Wrath) or via machine gun RNG blessings (MoP), life was good. Unless one was on the receiving end.

[Puupi]

Lightning Bolt on the move was never something that made Ele awesome in PvP.

Lava Bursts hitting for 60% of an enemies HP (Wotlk) and farting out Instant Lvb's made it awesome(MoP).

Vanilla Chain Lightning.... omnomnomnom!

[Kralljin]

Kralljin, no but it gave ele sustained DPS while fleeing and at least a chance to kite the enemy every now and then without losing all their damage. A melee chasing an ele will still deal damage, in many cases quite. An ele trying to get away most of the time wont.

Sustained damage simply didn't matter as Elemental, that is not why you took an Elemental for rated PvP.

The sole thing moving LB was good for was to generate LS Charges, problem was that Fulmination was only really good to squeeze in a little bit of more burst (if your Lava surge lottery failed) and that's it.

It was cool for random BG, running around and annoying people, but for rated PvP the moving LB is extremely overrated.

Even in a 1v1 Situation, a Melee still killed you unless you got in some decent Lava Surge procs, being able to cast LB didn't change that in any way.

Alongside the removal on fireshock came a drastic lowering of it's likelihood to trigger the instant LvB. Which means you'll get far fewer in most settings.

The problem here is not Flame shock or the proc chance of Lava Surge, FS no longer has CD which means you can have FS running on all targets rather fast, which is really good.

The problem here is simply that even a chain of Lava Surge procs isn't doing a lot of damage, the *random* burst potential is simply not there, that is what Elemental made so dangerous in MoP, Burst could happen at any moment without warning.

Vanilla Chain Lightning.... omnomnomnom!

True but Elemental has been a rather rare sight even when it was overpowered.

2h Enhance overshadowed the PvP Scene, but yeah the Crits done with vanilla Elemental Mastery, (When Spell crits were extremely impactful) were insane.

Is it actually allowed to post content from Legacy Servers? Just curious.

[Deleted]

Even in a 1v1 Situation, a Melee still killed you unless you got in some decent Lava Surge procs, being able to cast LB didn't change that in any way.

It helped prevent regeneration in some cases or at least helped slow it down, it gave you something to fill the time with while waiting for surges to at least do a small ammount of damage. It wasn't the greatest thing but it helped.

The problem here is not Flame shock or the proc chance of Lava Surge, FS no longer has CD which means you can have FS running on all targets rather fast, which is really good.

The problem here is simply that even a chain of Lava Surge procs isn't doing a lot of damage, the *random* burst potential is simply not there, that is what Elemental made to dangerous in MoP, Burst could happen at any moment without warning.

No it's not "really good", it would be really good if you had a large ammount of targets to make up for the lowered proc chance. Most of the time, YOU DO NOT. Thus it is WORSE. Because the proccs are what mattered. Having 3 flameshocks running right away that only give you a fraction of what a single or two flameshocks would've given you is really bad.

Without any of this, shaman is currently quite terrible and most of the PvP talents do not seem the alleviate this.

[Kazgrel]

Is it actually allowed to post content from Legacy Servers? Just curious.

Not sure. That post did remind me of this old gem, from the days of when everyone drooled over warrior pvp videos...I wanted to do this instead, but I didn't raid:



Basically 3 Minute Mage in shaman form, and part of why trinkets began having linked cooldowns (to prevent stacking). Shaman class trinket from BWL (which got nerfed going into TBC) + Hero Charm from ZG (or maybe that was the MC Talisman...don't remember which).

Note: This is footage from vanilla, not a private server.

[Kralljin]

It helped prevent regeneration in some cases or at least helped slow it down, it gave you something to fill the time with while waiting for surges to at least do a small ammount of damage. It wasn't the greatest thing but it helped.

Sure it helped, but it doesn't really convey the truth about it either.

No it's not "really good", it would be really good if you had a large ammount of targets to make up for the lowered proc chance. Most of the time, YOU DO NOT. Thus it is WORSE. Because the proccs are what mattered. Having 3 flameshocks running right away that only give you a fraction of what a single or two flameshocks

The thing is, you simply fought a dispel battle against the healer for the entire match, while you had the upper hand due the lower cd, you had to stay on top because multi dotting takes a lot of time if any FS is dispelled on CD.

In Legion, this battle is lost for the healer right off the bat, he can't keep up with no CD FS.

But my actual point, which i said above, was that it doesn't matter, Lvb on it's own doesn't deal enough damage to build up enough pressure, even some chain procs of Lvb.

As long as that remains true, discussing the pro and cons of Old FS vs. New FS is pointless because the requirement for it to actually matter is not met.

And i don't believe that they'll buff Lvb as they did in MoP, due Control of Lava, Skyfury Totem and Ascendance.

[heinz0r]

Well, ele is kinda okayish at beta currently. With the swelling waves talent you heal for double the amount, and any sane pvper will also want to put those artifact extra slots into healing, so your heals will be around 3-4 times better at 110 pvp. But by no means is elemental any kind of great right now. It is a group support that can deal some crazy damage if left alone, but still has a ton of trouble with melee like any other caster, even though the permasnare, stun totem either lower cd knockback or lava lasso DO help.

[Northy]

My lava bursts hit like nothing. It's a joke. Can't kill anything. Flameshocking everything is fun tho.

Arenas suck cuz there arent enough targets to get decent lava surge procs off for our pathetic little meatballs. Fml we suck.

[Riistov]

Ele is trash in pvp and always has been. Not sure why anybody thought that was going to change.

Was pretty damn strong in MoP.

LSD has been a top tier comp for a good while now.