[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Dimzum]

Van, I've been out of the loop for awhile trying to get ready for release. I'm usually at work when I browse here so I don't get a chance to check out the simcrafts or discord. I am just now checking them out. Seems prepared/felblade/momentum/demonic really lost it's punch in comparison with the others.

Does the simcraft of prepared take into account additional uptime on momentum? Looks like demonic is not far behind fel barrage on single target. Bloodlet seems way ahead of felblade, but I imagine if one is start out with momentum, or lazy like myself, having felbade to help with keep in the bosses hit box it might not be that bad of a talents to keep around.

Either way, I'm sure there is still more tuning to be done.

[Zeeket]

Man i really hope demon blades gets pulled down in dps, i picked the class to be GCD locked not to sit auto attacking for resources =/

[Butosai]

Man i really hope demon blades gets removed, i picked the class to be GCD locked not to sit auto attacking for resources =/

Fixed that for you

[Zeeket]

Fixed that for you

not really, i don't mind the talent existing, just don't want it to be top dps

[xmr1]

I just don't like that the alternatives to Demon Blades are such niche talents. Even if the DPS is theoretically balanced between them it's going to be hard to not take Demon Blades anyway given how the other two function.

[Deleted]

not really, i don't mind the talent existing, just don't want it to be top dps

Neither does blizzard...

DHs aren't going live for a long time still. Plenty of time to tweak damage output...

[Zeeket]

I dunno, Prepared works really well in raids, especially with the momentum build, and Demonic Appetite is just amazing in open world content

[enchiridion]

Van, I've been out of the loop for awhile trying to get ready for release. I'm usually at work when I browse here so I don't get a chance to check out the simcrafts or discord. I am just now checking them out. Seems prepared/felblade/momentum/demonic really lost it's punch in comparison with the others.

Does the simcraft of prepared take into account additional uptime on momentum? Looks like demonic is not far behind fel barrage on single target. Bloodlet seems way ahead of felblade, but I imagine if one is start out with momentum, or lazy like myself, having felbade to help with keep in the bosses hit box it might not be that bad of a talents to keep around.

Either way, I'm sure there is still more tuning to be done.

Simcraft takes into account the uptime on momentum like it always has, nothing has changed there, FBarr strength isnt from its pure ST standpoint but rather its strength in ST (not bad) and its strength in AOE (fantastic) the ability to switch between AOE and ST and still perform well is great and if you were looking at just ST damage you would want CB anyway. I would suggest for anyone starting out with momentum practice it without felblade as that way you can 1. get used to how to manipulate your movement to stay in the hitbox and 2. get used to using BL properly within the momentum window. As far as lazy (self proclaimed im not being a jerk, people) do whatever you want....if you feel that you want to be lazy its far better to enjoy what you are playing than trying to get every little bit out of the spec.

[jayinjersey]

I dunno, Prepared works really well in raids, especially with the momentum build, and Demonic Appetite is just amazing in open world content

Yup...only 5k difference


Using the current simcraft:

FM>DB>Blet>M>MotG>CB at 245k
FM>P>Blet>M>MotG>CB at 240k
FM>DB>Blet>M>MotG>FB at 237k
FM>P>Blet>M>MotG>FB at 233k
FM>DB>FBlade>M>MotG>CB at 231k
(I think this is the one I'll start raiding with till I get used to FR/VR without needing FBlade)

And if you hate the movement specs:

FM>DB>Blet>FE>MotG>CB at 237k
FM>DB>Blet>FE>MotG>FB at 231k


Remember though...even without momentum you will still be using FelRush as a Fury Gen / Damage ability
Unless you take the other two...and they sim sub 230k


So we have viable options...but most of them use DB




All sims using the default Havoc DH
50k iterations
350s Patchwerk
Player Skill Elite
1 Human Enemy

[Dimzum]

Simcraft takes into account the uptime on momentum like it always has, nothing has changed there, FBarr strength isnt from its pure ST standpoint but rather its strength in ST (not bad) and its strength in AOE (fantastic) the ability to switch between AOE and ST and still perform well is great and if you were looking at just ST damage you would want CB anyway. I would suggest for anyone starting out with momentum practice it without felblade as that way you can 1. get used to how to manipulate your movement to stay in the hitbox and 2. get used to using BL properly within the momentum window. As far as lazy (self proclaimed im not being a jerk, people) do whatever you want....if you feel that you want to be lazy its far better to enjoy what you are playing than trying to get every little bit out of the spec.

Definitely understood. I'll probably end up going whatever is the strongest for the raid. I'm just bummed that Demonic is so low on that tier now. I think that was my favorite playstyle with Momentum.

[Zeeket]

Yup...only 5k difference


Using the current simcraft:

FM>DB>Blet>M>MotG>CB at 245k
FM>P>Blet>M>MotG>CB at 240k
FM>DB>Blet>M>MotG>FB at 237k
FM>P>Blet>M>MotG>FB at 233k
FM>DB>FBlade>M>MotG>CB at 231k
(I think this is the one I'll start raiding with till I get used to FR/VR without needing FBlade)

And if you hate the movement specs:

FM>DB>Blet>FE>MotG>CB at 237k
FM>DB>Blet>FE>MotG>FB at 231k


Remember though...even without momentum you will still be using FelRush as a Fury Gen / Damage ability
Unless you take the other two...and they sim sub 230k


So we have viable options...but most of them use DB

you seem to have misunderstood my point here, i wasn't saying they where mathematically good, i was saying they FEEL better than DB in responce to someone saying the alternatives to DB where niche and not very nice to use.
Its about the feel not the numbers was my point

[Deleted]

not really, i don't mind the talent existing, just don't want it to be top dps

They've already said that DB wont be top on that tier, so don't you worry my friend!

[Butosai]

not really, i don't mind the talent existing, just don't want it to be top dps

I honestly dont mind it though tbh

[Deleted]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a new build yet. Does this mean tuning is done?

No the tuning isn't done by miles We will probably see a new build this week or next, Demon Hunter Q/A is on Friday, so I guess it will be either this week or next week.

[Zeeket]

Nope, means they've been busy with the pre-patch hitting live

[SGCelerrimus]

Hey Vanyali, you got a character on beta I could possibly message you? You seem to know a good bit about Demon Hunters and I have some questions in-game for you, if you don't mind.

[Vanyali]

Hey Vanyali, you got a character on beta I could possibly message you? You seem to know a good bit about Demon Hunters and I have some questions in-game for you, if you don't mind.

I'm Felstrike, realm 03 on beta, but I'm not on all that often anymore.. usually just pop in to test rotations or something and pop out again

[dark666105]

An alternative to VRing through the boss is if they line up you can FBarrage on your way back since while it is channeled you can still move while channeling.

[SGCelerrimus]

I'm Felstrike, realm 03 on beta, but I'm not on all that often anymore.. usually just pop in to test rotations or something and pop out again

How big of an upgrade is our 3rd artifact relic slot? I would say I am fairly geared to the teeth on beta, but I am lacking a bit on the DPS department, but I am only running two relics.

[Dimzum]

How big of an upgrade is our 3rd artifact relic slot? I would say I am fairly geared to the teeth on beta, but I am lacking a bit on the DPS department, but I am only running two relics.

It's pretty significant. Pre-raid you can increase your weapon item level by 35-40 points. At 820 you're around 1369dps. With a third slot you can be at 855 with 1897dps. That's huge. And it only grows to more of an advantage when you get access to mythic+ and raid gear.