[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Deleted]

I know it's not 100%, it just feels like it is all I'm saying.

I tested it a while ago and it procs a lot but once in a while it doesn't. I can't say for certain it's 74% but 74% is quite high so it would proc a lot with it.

[juhi]

Did we get an answer on when to flamestrike over pyro?

we r getting flamestrike Free and no cast on each Heating up. so we should cycle the pyro > flmaestrike on some bosses like (xul) when hes going too summon imps we will use the free flamestrike. otherwise still pyro is main spell (its still not worth on casting it! i hope blizzard change it too channeling spell)

at the end.. i test alot on beta.. The new fire mage with combustion change is the old arcane mage with hard Burst dmg and good cleave on 3+ targets..
the spec is weak on 3 target dmg.. and good on singe or 4+ since cinderstrom and flamepatch is really strong AOE dmg.. plus the flamestrike free.

for example u can cycle the spam free flamestrike on hands in kormrok feels like UR A GOD !

[Djriff]

I tested it a while ago and it procs a lot but once in a while it doesn't. I can't say for certain it's 74% but 74% is quite high so it would proc a lot with it.

Yeah, I forgot to upload logs on my lunch break, but i'll do it here in the next hour and take a look to see what I'm getting.

we r getting flamestrike Free and no cast on each Heating up. so we should cycle the pyro > flmaestrike on some bosses like (xul) when hes going too summon imps we will use the free flamestrike. otherwise still pyro is main spell (its still not worth on casting it! i hope blizzard change it too channeling spell)

..What? Pyro is almost universally better, especially with Class trinket since you'll be using FB anyways. No reason to waste HU on Flamestirke.

The rest of your post confuses me.

[xtramuscle]

Yeah, I forgot to upload logs on my lunch break, but i'll do it here in the next hour and take a look to see what I'm getting.

..What? Pyro is almost universally better, especially with Class trinket since you'll be using FB anyways. No reason to waste HU on Flamestirke.

The rest of your post confuses me.

So even when multiple targets are in play you would pyro / fb for free (74% chance) fs, instead of using instant fs?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, I forgot to upload logs on my lunch break, but i'll do it here in the next hour and take a look to see what I'm getting.

..What? Pyro is almost universally better, especially with Class trinket since you'll be using FB anyways. No reason to waste HU on Flamestirke.

The rest of your post confuses me.

So even when multiple targets are in play you would pyro / fb for free (74% chance) fs, instead of using instant fs?

[Djriff]

So even when multiple targets are in play you would pyro / fb for free (74% chance) fs, instead of using instant fs?

Depends on the number of targets. What's the actual cutoff like 4+? If I was in that scenario I would FS for sure, but can FS proc Hot Streak?

[Sturmcantor]

..What? Pyro is almost universally better, especially with Class trinket since you'll be using FB anyways. No reason to waste HU on Flamestirke.

Class trinket isn't relevant (except that it means we have Flame Patch rather than Living Bomb) - you're going to spend all your FB charges regardless of whether you dump Hot Streak on Pyro or Flamestrike. The question is when does a Flamestrike + Flame Patch outdamage a Pyroblast (plus the partial extra pyroblast from potential heating up). My guess based on how strong Flame Patch atm is swap at 3 or 4 targets. Easy enough to check via some sims - if I wasn't moving this week I'd do it but I am so someone else can.

Rinoa's guide on AT suggested Flamestrike > Pyro on 3+ targets, but doesn't mention if that's with or without Flame Patch.

Looking at my damage inside cds on Iron Reaver last week, my average Pyroblast was 170k + Ignite and each Flamestrike+Flame Patch did 370k + Ignite on ~65k of that. Outside cds a Flamestrike + Flame Patch was 38k (+ Ignite) + 83k vs a Pyro at 63k + Ignite.

[Djriff]

Alright in regards to how often Flamestrike is actually proccing:
Fel Lord 14 FS vs 18 FB's 77% of them.
Tyrant 31 FS vs 33 FB's, 94% (rounded up).

Also while combing through various logs, WCL skews everything if you ever hard cast one of them, then that "1" cast equals all of the casts you did, throughout the entire fight, As an example

[iddqd]

I know it's not 100%, it just feels like it is all I'm saying.


Generally I line up Flame On with RoP since they share a similar CD. I do at one Flame On + RoP cycle between Combustions.

Yeah i also use RoP with Flame On, but how do you use the latter? Back to back Fire Blasts to get a guranteed, fast instant Pyro or use it when you get HU and no Fire Blast is available?

[Djriff]

Yeah i also use RoP with Flame On, but how do you use the latter? Back to back Fire Blasts to get a guranteed, fast instant Pyro or use it when you get HU and no Fire Blast is available?

I'll hold it for up to ~15 seconds before i'll do that. You're guaranteed to get a HU within 15 seconds.

[xtramuscle]

I'll hold it for up to ~15 seconds before i'll do that. You're guaranteed to get a HU within 15 seconds.

Holding it un-syncs from ring. That's bound to be a bigger loss than wasting one fb

[Djriff]

Holding it un-syncs from ring. That's bound to be a bigger loss than wasting one fb

That's why I cap myself at 15 seconds so i'll have Flame on and a Charge of RoP for the next ring. Flame on is on a 45s CD and RoP is 40s per charge. So on my first combustion on pull with ring + lust i'll use 2 RoP and Flame on during my opening burst. Then i'll use FB as HU procs to get my free Pyro. Once Flame On comes close to coming off CD i'll bank my charges then drop RoP the second I get a HU proc and cast FB -> Pyro -> FB -> Pyro (If HS, ortherwise Flame On -> Fireball -> FB -> Pyro) -> FB -> Pyro.

That gives me a little bit of mini burst which could work with the right amount of crit and IS reliant on RNG, but idk how else to handle RoP charges outside of Combustion and it works for me.

[juhi]

Yeah, I forgot to upload logs on my lunch break, but i'll do it here in the next hour and take a look to see what I'm getting.

..What? Pyro is almost universally better, especially with Class trinket since you'll be using FB anyways. No reason to waste HU on Flamestirke.

The rest of your post confuses me.

so ur saying we have too use PB instead of Free FS on 4+ targets when the debuffs is not spreading on our command and the only ignite is spreading auto..

and about the class trinket (we r talking about future rotation for Legion Expansion (no class trinket there)

Class trinket isn't relevant (except that it means we have Flame Patch rather than Living Bomb) - you're going to spend all your FB charges regardless of whether you dump Hot Streak on Pyro or Flamestrike. The question is when does a Flamestrike + Flame Patch outdamage a Pyroblast (plus the partial extra pyroblast from potential heating up). My guess based on how strong Flame Patch atm is swap at 3 or 4 targets. Easy enough to check via some sims - if I wasn't moving this week I'd do it but I am so someone else can.

Rinoa's guide on AT suggested Flamestrike > Pyro on 3+ targets, but doesn't mention if that's with or without Flame Patch.

Looking at my damage inside cds on Iron Reaver last week, my average Pyroblast was 170k + Ignite and each Flamestrike+Flame Patch did 370k + Ignite on ~65k of that. Outside cds a Flamestrike + Flame Patch was 38k (+ Ignite) + 83k vs a Pyro at 63k + Ignite.

Exacly ..

[Djriff]

so ur saying we have too use PB instead of Free FS on 4+ targets when the debuffs is not spreading on our command and the only ignite is spreading auto..

and about the class trinket (we r talking about future rotation for Legion Expansion (no class trinket there)

I was speaking about pre patch, not legion. In legion of course you'll use FS on 4+ targets (probably 3+), however during combustion being up I'm not certain if it'll be better to do that since our artifact ability does a lot of splash damage. Has anyone tested that?

[Deleted]

Been testing out some different openers in beta with full artifact talents, 802ilvl pvp gear.

Been getting better results with: Pre-pyro(crit)>PF>RoP/Comb>Cinderstorm>Pyro/FB>Pyro/FB>FO>Pyro/FB>Pyro/FB>Pyro>PF>Pyro.

I was netting on average 500k-800K more damage than the normal opener i was using, this i think is down to Cinderstorm not only hitting harder than any of our spells when you land 6 cinders but it stacks the Pyretic Incantation trait to max crit damage in one cast meaning that your pyro chain is already doing 28% more crit damage when you start it.

Combustion does fall off before you get the last pyro out, but even still the cumulative damage of all the other pyros hitting harder makes up and overtakes the damage lost and if it crits(bearing in mind i was only in 802 gear with 27% crit) it is a big damage increase as there is nothing stopping you dropping another ring and continuing the crit string with PF and FB which is coming off cooldown by then.

Beginning to really like cinderstorm now it seems like it has more indepth uses than just awkward high aoe damage.

[Fevyz]

Depends on the number of targets. What's the actual cutoff like 4+? If I was in that scenario I would FS for sure, but can FS proc Hot Streak?

What? Pyro is almost universally better, especially with Class trinket since you'll be using FB anyways. No reason to waste HU on Flamestirke.

Do you even realize how broken flame patch currently is on pre-patch? Wether or not your class trinket procs it aswell, there is no such thing as "wasting" HU procs on FS on anything that isn't single target. Saying that Pyro is universally better just because you have the class trinket that "procs it anyways" is the dumbest shit i've read today.

[Meleti]

When I get a HU proc while I'm casting a Fireball, should I be canceling that cast for Phoenix Flame? Example:

Complete Fireball cast #1
Buffered Fireball cast #2 starts
Fireball #1 lands and crits

I've found that if I finish Fireball #2 and hit Phoenix Flame, I often (always?) lose the HU because the Fireball registers first.

[Deleted]

When I get a HU proc while I'm casting a Fireball, should I be canceling that cast for Phoenix Flame? Example:

Complete Fireball cast #1
Buffered Fireball cast #2 starts
Fireball #1 lands and crits

I've found that if I finish Fireball #2 and hit Phoenix Flame, I often (always?) lose the HU because the Fireball registers first.

In that situation you should cast Fire blast while casting fireball to gain Hot Streak. Fire your Fireball and Pyroblast together.

[Deleted]

When I get a HU proc while I'm casting a Fireball, should I be canceling that cast for Phoenix Flame? Example:

Complete Fireball cast #1
Buffered Fireball cast #2 starts
Fireball #1 lands and crits

I've found that if I finish Fireball #2 and hit Phoenix Flame, I often (always?) lose the HU because the Fireball registers first.

hmm, ive been experiencing the opposite but ofc that might just be due to luck but as shadohw said, you should prolly use fire blast in that situation to be certain

[nickseng]

hmm, ive been experiencing the opposite but ofc that might just be due to luck but as shadohw said, you should prolly use fire blast in that situation to be certain

Which begs the question ... how do you best utilize pheonix flames?

[Meleti]

hmm, ive been experiencing the opposite but ofc that might just be due to luck but as shadohw said, you should prolly use fire blast in that situation to be certain

I'm leveling up my mage right now so Fireball has a very short travel time (cast in melee range mostly). That may be the difference.