I Had More Spells at Level 60.....

[Paula Deen]

Literally how is that at all a significant difference if someone uses every single spell or all but two when the whole premise of y'alls dumbass argument is that people "only use like 10 buttons while PvEing the raid boss / only use 10% of their spells"

The argument presented in the thread, outside of the OP has been pretty consistently that WoW isn't much of an RPG if those abilities you never use are removed. The Argument the OP and a few others used is all the abilities they removed were needed and were used all the time. Its not true. It simply isn't. Some classes got hit really hard with the prune hammer, yeah, but others didn't get hit at all, some of them even gained abilities. Most of the removed abilities are either baked into one of the two talent trees now or into another already existing ability. The argument is stupid, end of story.

[shoegazing]

Do you remember when locks had 3 diffrent curses to use?
Only 1 curse could be used per lock how is that even valid?
I wanna be able to make bosses take 5% more dmg because i removed resistance from them.
I wanna be able to deal dmg with my curse and i wanna be able to make bosses hit less with curse of weakness as well.
But hey i can't cause i can use only 1 at a time per target.......


THEN WHY THE FOOK DO I HAVE all these 3 curses that in reality i can use but i cant cause bosses or targets/players can take only 1 at a time?

WOW it's almost as if you have a choice of which curse to use based on the situation you are in.

You see the enemy mage has used cooldowns and wants to go offensive so you use curse of tongues to slow his damage output

OK now you're pushing the enemy team back and putting damage out so you swap to curse of agony to get extra damage.

He starts trying to run away to survive so now you change to curse of weakness to slow his retreat

It's called having different options for different situations and it gives you the player the ability to diagnose the situation and decide what your reaction is going to be.

If you guys get your way then the game will become entirely linear and scripted.

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The argument presented in the thread, outside of the OP has been pretty consistently that WoW isn't much of an RPG if those abilities you never use are removed. The Argument the OP and a few others used is all the abilities they removed were needed and were used all the time. Its not true. It simply isn't. Some classes got hit really hard with the prune hammer, yeah, but others didn't get hit at all, some of them even gained abilities. Most of the removed abilities are either baked into one of the two talent trees now or into another already existing ability. The argument is stupid, end of story.

That's not the argument I'm making and that's not the argument I'm defending.

Again, I personally used almost every single ability in my spellbook, in every single arena match.

I'm not in here saying "Blizzard why did take away all these abilities that I never used!?!"

I'm in here saying "Blizzard why did you take away all these abilities that I used constantly?"

You pro-prune people are the ones saying "Well I only use 10 buttons so go ahead and prune everything else XD"

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Most of the removed abilities are either baked into one of the two talent trees now or into another already existing ability

This is factually inaccurate.

The list of abilities which were taken from Rogues without any replacement being given is quite large.

[shoegazing]

Why are all these clowns in here insisting that I don't use nearly every ability in my spellbook constantly when in fact I do?

How exactly do you know whether or not I'm using it? lol?

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LFR Heroes be like: "I only use 12 buttons while I kill bosses, therefore everyone else should be forced to use only the same buttons that I use lolololol"

Get out of here with that BS

[Deleted]

Why are all these clowns in here insisting that I don't use nearly every ability in my spellbook constantly when in fact I do?

How exactly do you know whether or not I'm using it? lol?

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LFR Heroes be like: "I only use 12 buttons while I kill bosses, therefore everyone else should be forced to use only the same buttons that I use lolololol"

Get out of here with that BS

You sound like a gigantic ass to everyone you talk to, maybe you should act like a actual person and maybe you get a decent discussion.
The way you act you will only get the troll's coming at you.
Just some advice.

[Claritycraft]

LFR Heroes be like: "I only use 12 buttons while I kill bosses, therefore everyone else should be forced to use only the same buttons that I use lolololol"

Get out of here with that BS

they don't use gouge on an LFR boss so that makes the ability completely useless to everyone else and it should be removed from sub/assassi.... =)

my opinion on the whole prune matter is that in most cases they've added more damaging mechanics (compared to wod anyway) which non-pvpers probably prefer but at the same time they've removed so much utility/cc which has basically turned PVP into PVE, there's no counterplay involved in PVP anymore really

[shoegazing]

You sound like a gigantic ass to everyone you talk to, maybe you should act like a actual person and maybe you get a decent discussion.
The way you act you will only get the troll's coming at you.
Just some advice.

I have been exceptionally patient for like 20 pages of this thread despite people coming at me acting like they know more about how I play the game than I do.

Why don't you try responding to the actual content of my argument rather than the tone I take with someone who continually misrepresents my own position and claims they know more than I do about how I myself am playing the game.

[Ebalina]

I have been exceptionally patient for like 20 pages of this thread despite people coming at me acting like they know more about how I play the game than I do.

Why don't you try responding to the actual content of my argument rather than the tone I take with someone who continually misrepresents my own position and claims they know more than I do about how I myself am playing the game.

What argument?

I told you no one uses 100% of their tool kit not even you.
95-97% isn't 100% .

You seem to have lost your sanity that isn't my problem get a shrink hire a psyche for all i care.
All i know is you are wrong.

Clowns, Mimes and other circus acts aside you are the one who looks like a clown here claiming that you use 100% of your tool kit in every situation you are in.
And that is not the case some spells are just utter useless in PvP and some in PvE .

This is why now we have 2 talent trees one that addresses the PvP aspect and one that does the PvE .
You don't like it? You can go suck a lemon but fact is you are still wrong in what you are saying.

Don't lecture me on how to PvP i did PvP when i wanted and the fact is i wanted to be able to use curse of tongue / curse of weakness / curse of elements or just plain simple curse of agony all at the same time BECAUSE i'm supposed to be able to do that by your logic and i shouldn't be swapping from one to another.

I'm completely fine with Pruning it has not gone over the top for me and i still enjoy the game as it is the same way i enjoyed it when i had to use low level spells to heal with depending on incoming damage in TBC i know right? How can some one actually enjoy both things unseen unreal maybe end of the world is coming.

[shoegazing]

What argument?

I told you no one uses 100% of their tool kit not even you.
95-97% isn't 100% .

You seem to have lost your sanity that isn't my problem get a shrink hire a psyche for all i care.
All i know is you are wrong.

Clowns, Mimes and other circus acts aside you are the one who looks like a clown here claiming that you use 100% of your tool kit in every situation you are in.
And that is not the case some spells are just utter useless in PvP and some in PvE .

This is why now we have 2 talent trees one that addresses the PvP aspect and one that does the PvE .
You don't like it? You can go suck a lemon but fact is you are still wrong in what you are saying.

Don't lecture me on how to PvP i did PvP when i wanted and the fact is i wanted to be able to use curse of tongue / curse of weakness / curse of elements or just plain simple curse of agony all at the same time BECAUSE i'm supposed to be able to do that by your logic and i shouldn't be swapping from one to another.

I'm completely fine with Pruning it has not gone over the top for me and i still enjoy the game as it is the same way i enjoyed it when i had to use low level spells to heal with depending on incoming damage in TBC i know right? How can some one actually enjoy both things unseen unreal maybe end of the world is coming.

You are literally obsessing over the fact that I rounded 97% up to 100%.

It is not a significant difference and it doesn't change the substance of the argument at all. I still use pretty much used every spell in my spellbook when I PvP, with 1-2 exceptions, so the people claiming that you only need 10 buttons to play the game need to stop speaking for me and other players like me.

Just stop.

[Ebalina]

You are literally obsessing over the fact that I rounded 97% up to 100%.

It is not a significant difference and it doesn't change the substance of the argument at all. I still use pretty much used every spell in my spellbook when I PvP, with 1-2 exceptions, so the people claiming that you only need 10 buttons to play the game need to stop speaking for me and other players like me.

Just stop.

I'm not the one obsessing over anything.
You are the one that keeps repeating 97% = 100% .

You can round all you want fact is 97% isn't 100%.

No one here is claiming you need 10 buttons to play the game.
I've played with 30+ binded ability's to my bars from including mage foods mounts for bg's and other various potions and what not.
To what is the game now.

And i still enjoy it this is what you do not understand.
Pruning happened deal with it or go play some other game pruning isn't bad never was bad and its the decision blizzard took for what ever reason they did.
Whine all you want it wont change.

Be the Landsoul of Rogues and say enough is enough and just leave when your favorite class is turned inside out and you just don't like it.
But don't preach stuff that is subjective and inaccurate.

[shoegazing]

I'm not the one obsessing over anything.
You are the one that keeps repeating 97% = 100% .

You can round all you want fact is 97% isn't 100%.

No one here is claiming you need 10 buttons to play the game.
I've played with 30+ binded ability's to my bars from including mage foods mounts for bg's and other various potions and what not.
To what is the game now.

And i still enjoy it this is what you do not understand.
Pruning happened deal with it or go play some other game pruning isn't bad never was bad and its the decision blizzard took for what ever reason they did.
Whine all you want it wont change.

Be the Landsoul of Rogues and say enough is enough and just leave when your favorite class is turned inside out and you just don't like it.
But don't preach stuff that is subjective and inaccurate.

OK, how does it change my argument at all whether I use all of my abilities in my spellbook or all but one of my abilities from my spellbook?

How does that make any kind of substantive difference?

It's still way more than the person on the very first page of the thread who says that only 10% of the spellbook is needed.

[TheWorkingTitle]

You are literally obsessing over the fact that I rounded 97% up to 100%.

It is not a significant difference and it doesn't change the substance of the argument at all. I still use pretty much used every spell in my spellbook when I PvP, with 1-2 exceptions, so the people claiming that you only need 10 buttons to play the game need to stop speaking for me and other players like me.

Just stop.

These people are bringing you down to their level and waging semantic wars with you because they can't and don't want to talk or debate or discuss the merits of the actual argument at hand.

Just ignore them -- it's a waste of time and energy when all they do is misconstrue, twist, and deflect.

Your overarching point stands, as I and many others have agreed with. The problem is changing Blizzard's mind, not arguing with morons over hypothetical percentage points or whether or not they played their class to the fullest. The vast majority of players are lazy, unwilling to dedicate themselves, and didn't and won't ever achieve maximum potential with their characters -- so how could they even know what the hell they're talking about?

[Ebalina]

These people are bringing you down to their level and waging semantic wars with you because they can't and don't want to talk or debate or discuss the merits of the actual argument at hand.

Just ignore them -- it's a waste of time and energy when all they do is misconstrue, twist, and deflect.

Your overarching point stands, as I and many others have agreed with. The problem is changing Blizzard's mind, not arguing with morons over hypothetical percentage points or whether or not they played their class to the fullest. The vast majority of players are lazy, unwilling to dedicate themselves, and didn't and won't ever achieve maximum potential with their characters -- so how could they even know what the hell they're talking about?

Merits ?
What merits dude please check your argument again.

We are not the ones that decide what merits we should or shouldn't have in the game.
It is done.
Fin.
Finito.
End of the line.

At this point you either learn to live with it or you don't.

I never said dumbing down the classes so much is a good idea but i'm not against the pruning either.
We have to see how much diversity artifacts will bring to the table as well.

Rest is just blinders on and fighting over something that is out of any ones reach then blizzards.

Again learn to live with the prune or resent it i don't care just do not spread random incorrect information about the way you play the game thinking that just because you used 97% of your tool kit that instantly makes it cannon in any situation or class.

[Volitar]

I think having spells that were very situational was okay it was an extra skill ceiling that an experienced player could find a use for every spell but the average player didn't need them. Whats wrong with that? Its better than the current class design where it feels like you have almost non existent utility spells.

[Phurox]

As a Mm hunter and a Outlaw Rogue I fail to see that I have lesser spells now.

[shoegazing]

These people are bringing you down to their level and waging semantic wars with you because they can't and don't want to talk or debate or discuss the merits of the actual argument at hand.

Just ignore them -- it's a waste of time and energy when all they do is misconstrue, twist, and deflect.

Your overarching point stands, as I and many others have agreed with. The problem is changing Blizzard's mind, not arguing with morons over hypothetical percentage points or whether or not they played their class to the fullest. The vast majority of players are lazy, unwilling to dedicate themselves, and didn't and won't ever achieve maximum potential with their characters -- so how could they even know what the hell they're talking about?

Thank you for this post, I needed that.

[Deleted]

As a Mm hunter and a Outlaw Rogue I fail to see that I have lesser spells now.

Fewer, it's called fewer. You do. You likely just never used your class to it's full potential. Which is why this prune happened, why Blizzard forced everyone to adhere to that standard. Because some people couldn't manage to actually do these things. It's for the same reason now can't zoom out as far anymore etc. This change, was to cater to the likes of you.

Seriously you aren't disproving nor countering anything said here, you are proving it. You are proving why it has been done, whom it was for and that it happened.

Merits ?
What merits dude please check your argument again.

Check your privilege! That's the level you're on right now.

We are not the ones that decide what merits we should or shouldn't have in the game.
It is done.
Fin.
Finito.
End of the line.

At this point you either learn to live with it or you don't.

Bullshit! The game is in constant flux, it's changing over time and adapting. Pretending something happened and is irreversible because you're in favour of it is not an argument. It's trying to ban people who hold differing opinions from disagreeing with yours and challenging aswell as pushing for their desired outcome.

Again learn to live with the prune or resent it i don't care just do not spread random incorrect information about the way you play the game thinking that just because you used 97% of your tool kit that instantly makes it cannon in any situation or class.

Really now, do you even understand the words you are using and the argument you're trying to construct. Let's humour you, a new player obviously wont use all of their abilities. This doesn't mean they shouldn't use all of them, or that they don't need all of them. They are simply just too inexperienced and unknowledgeable on the matter. The same holds true for a bad player, just that in their case they never will use most of these abilities and think they're completely useless/not needed. This does neither make it true nor does it need to be factored in.

Because despite recent ideas that everything is relative and all opinions equal and there's no objective truth, this is simply not true.

[Divinexve]

Have any of you ever eaten prunes? they're pretty yummy

[aysatsana]

Why are all these clowns in here insisting that I don't use nearly every ability in my spellbook constantly when in fact I do?

How exactly do you know whether or not I'm using it? lol?

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LFR Heroes be like: "I only use 12 buttons while I kill bosses, therefore everyone else should be forced to use only the same buttons that I use lolololol"

Get out of here with that BS

Definitely agree with you. Most people are saying "uhh I only used 5 spells before, therefore it's ok to prune all those spells I didn't use". Truth is, those "spells you didn't use" had their niche uses and those who knew how to use them were rewarded for it.

For example, hunters used to have scare beast, master's call, traps (BM and MM lost them), tranq shot, distracting shot, etc. Most casuals and PVEers didn't use these spells, they just did their basic cookie cutter rotation. Does that mean no one uses it? No. I used scare beast to fear pets/druids, master's call, traps for knockbacks and tranqshots to BoP, etc in pvp ALL THE TIME. It's good to have those extra abilities so that good players have the option to use them.

[Dizzeeyooo]

yes because a destro lock would tottalty use curse of agony, and drain soul, well a affliction would use incenerate and immolate

you didn't pvp competitively as a warlock in tbc or wotlk did you lol

[Deleted]

so dumbed down were back to tank n spank while /afk waiting for cooldowns to finish already.

It's better for some, worse for others. What they did remove in many cases was utility. Abilities that required a rudimentary class understanding, awareness of your surroundings and ongoing events. I.e they removed in many cases the worst possible abilities to remove because they allowed people to put themselves apart from the average/bad crowd and have quite an impact on situations.