If Naxx40 released in today's modern raiding enviroment, how long would it last?

[Deleted]

you choose thaddius to be the fight that's a nightmare? Same polarity left, different polarity right. Done. It was one of the easiest mechanics in there.

/raid <--------
/raid - boss +
/raid -------->

[Dsc]

It's a different game.
Some requirements of player skill are minimized ( thanks addons.)
Style has changed drastically. " I win AOE tanking and healing buttons trivialize things and make it so one only has to stand in a safe place and hit the button at the proper time.

Let's take it out of context. I have a realm first HLK. as a Disc priest. If I error even once of 300 chances = we wiped. If our hunter wasn't on point or the tank CDs weren't there = we wiped. (same with the massive amount of personal responsibility raidwide-fightwide)

Naxx on the other hand required a massive commitment and grind to get to. Passing Patchwork took more work than farming Ashran and spamming your "gearscore"

Players, 40 of them that got to that point, as a group, were geared and tuned to a higher level than I've seen since. Just getting resist gear for your tanks TO GET THERE was a group effort. something I haven't seen since in a mild form TBC.

Nowdays these kids would go play COD. If they went for naxx, and got attuned and bothered to get geared for it. It would fall in a week, after they spend a month getting there.... maybe.

[Raugnaut]

Simply due to the fact that every healer has both an AoE heal (Much more powerful then the Chain Heal of the past) AND a raid CD that affects the entire raid, Naxx 40 would be significantly easier to down. The main reason for +resist gear needed for virtually all the raids was the AoE damage going out, and the complete lack of AoE healing available. (Note that ONLY the horde had access to AoE healing back in the day in the form of Chain Heal and HST. HST was considerably weaker, as it only gave a small trickle of healing every 5 seconds to everyone in the party, not raid group. Chain Heal was also weaker as it bounced less AND its heal significantly diminished per bounce. Also Mp5 rules, for mana regen, you simple stopped casting period)

So with a significantly more powerful AoE healing arsenal available on EVERY healer, Naxx 40 wouldn't last too aweful long. The two main blocks would be Patchwerk (Both a hard dps test AND a pure tank-healing fight, remember that tank mitigation has been nerfed hard, and now healers are responsible for most of a tank's healing) and 4 horsemen (Mainly because getting 8 geared tanks would be a bitch, when you wouldn't need said tanks for anything else)

[Uoyredrum]

It would still take a while. Bosses back then had fewer mechanics but very tight tuning. Most of the people saying otherwise didn't raid at that level back then.

[Durbi]

Obviously due to too many class changes, Naxx 40 would be much easier. As the guy above me said, there wasn't as much AoE healing back then as there is now. These days every healer has them; back then if I'm not mistaken it was primarily shamans that were able to do constant AoE heals.

But if the preperation to enter it were the same as it was back then, then 90% would never set foot in Naxxramas. People these days are lazy, it's simple as that. Why do you think Blizzard puts all of these changes within the game, so called QOL. Sure it makes the game feel nicer, but everyone is just lazy and doesn't want to do anything.

[IdTheDemon]

40 players with today's gear acquirement, talent, class changes and overall balancing? Easy.

40 players with Vanilla's gear acquirement, talent, class systems and overall balancing? They'll cry in 30 minutes.

You can't have the Vanilla raids without the vanilla quality of life and gameplay mechanics from back then. Getting gear in Vanilla for Naxx required AQ 40 on farm, which meant you needed BWL on farm.

Now if it's a guild full of fresh level 60's, then you have to farm UBRS, Scholo and Strat enough to farm MC then do start on BWL.



Then there's a couple of other casual killing facts:

1) Most bosses dropped 2-3 pieces for a 40 man raid.

2) Getting gold was a pain

3) Soloing was a pain, even at 60.

4) Pacing was much slower back then. As a mage, I remember drinking after killing 2-3 mobs when evocate was down.

5) Played a hybrid? You healed.

[Deleted]

This is a nonsensical question.

Drop Naxxramas into today's game and everyone and their grandma clears it within an afternoon.

Drop today's players (IRL) into the Vanilla state of the game (aka everything is expensive as fuck, no you don't have 3 million gold stored in a bank already, no you don't have a roster refined over multiple years of experience, no you don't have 50 alt runs, no you don't have bloated player toolkits, etc), and Naxx would last more or less as long as it did.

[Resurgo]

Too many things come into play.

I for one, played through the beginning of Everquest before moving onto WoW at the start. Closer to the end of my first stint of WoW, I had become part of my server first's C'thun kill. By the time Naxx40 dropped, real life took me away from the game for a few years.

Raids back then were generally more punishing because the simpler mechanics were a LOT more punishing. Coupled with the fact that by and large, very few people were rocking the BiS gear. I still haven't played my old char other than to log in and peek around the server, and I laughed at how patchwork my gear was for its time. Still had a few Might and Wrath pieces, never a full set of one or the other. A few high level PvP bits mixed in, and a maybe 1 or 2 AQ40 pieces. This was after we cleared AQ40 a few times.

In comparable time today, you can easily get close to a full set if not your 4 or 5 piece Tier gear in each tier of raiding before the next raid dropped.
To put in perspective, it would be like having Farmed out Archi kills a few times and still only wearing 1 or two pieces from Highmaul, 2-3 pieces from Foundry, 2-3 pieces from Hellfire Citadel.

However, we raiders back then were used to that. Heck, in early EQ days, when you died, if you didn't get back to your corpse (with all your gear on it) in time, (you had to run back to your corpse gearless and naked) it would poof and all your gear was gone for good. That was punishing gameplay

WoW was like a breath of fresh air for most of us at the time. So all the ways of blocking progress that was built into Vanilla at the time, lack of gear, lack of mats, lack of potions, lack of resist gear, was just simply how it was.

TLDR:
Mentality
Scarcity of loot
Mechanics
Execution
Expectations
All different. Too hard to fairly judge one environment to the next.

[Nitros14]

I didn't play back in Vanilla, so I'd appreciate it if you can answer me this. AQ40 gear was ilvl 88. Naxx 40 gear was ilvl 88. With good enough RNG you will eventually get a pull on 4 Horsemen where you don't wipe to taunts missing.

Imagine this scenario:A guild has 40 players that all play perfectly all of the time and never lag. These 40 players all have infinite gold and 5 characters with full BiS from AQ40. Why can Naxx 40 not be cleared within 24 hours of zoning into the raid?

Ahn'qiraj didn't have sets with four set bonuses and the set bonuses sucked.

Also if you look at wowhead you'll notice stuff from the Prophet Skeram is ilvl73. Near the end of the instance Twin Emperors is still only dropping ilvl 81. Only C'thun is dropping ilvl 88 and he drops 2 non-set 2 set pieces for 40 people. And a bunch of drops will be worthless nature resist gear for Huhuran.

Naxxramas starts at ilvl83 with Razuvious (who only dropped 2 pieces of loot for 40 people). By the end Sapphiron dropped ilvl 90 stuff and Kel'Thuzad ilvl92, a 26% increase on the start of Ahn'qiraj. You can look that up on wowpedia's old Naxxramas pages.

[vep]

Yeah right but challenging for what reasons?
Just because you have 20 extra mouth breathing retards in it.....

Why do people forget how much different the classes were back then? I mean, Paladins were basically buff-bots. If you were a Priest, you were a healer, period. I mean Paladins didn't even have Crusader Strike.

The OP posed a question asking how hard Naxx40 would be today with same mechanics. Not even remotely hard. Because class quality of life is much better today. Classes are equipped with abilities to handle much harder mechanics. Even addons sucked back then (frankly I don't even know if DBM existed).

The true question should have been: How would a modern raider fare in Naxx40 conditions?

I haven't played for the last two expansions, frankly, but I'd have to guess that most people would have a hard time dealing with the scarcity of loot and lack of nearly instant gratification.

[Aeula]

It'd be finished within the week. Naxx's difficulty wasn't that the raid was hard, it was that the players sucked (Not skill-wise, but ability and general player-power wise).

[Deleted]

It would still take a while. Bosses back then had fewer mechanics but very tight tuning. Most of the people saying otherwise didn't raid at that level back then.

Clearly you didn't, it had nothing to do with "tight tuning" lol, it was just people being bad at the game and the fact that 90% of vanilla was broken/bugged

[Ebalina]

Why do people forget how much different the classes were back then? I mean, Paladins were basically buff-bots. If you were a Priest, you were a healer, period. I mean Paladins didn't even have Crusader Strike.

The OP posed a question asking how hard Naxx40 would be today with same mechanics. Not even remotely hard. Because class quality of life is much better today. Classes are equipped with abilities to handle much harder mechanics. Even addons sucked back then (frankly I don't even know if DBM existed).

The true question should have been: How would a modern raider fare in Naxx40 conditions?

I haven't played for the last two expansions, frankly, but I'd have to guess that most people would have a hard time dealing with the scarcity of loot and lack of nearly instant gratification.

I haven't forgotten anything.
In most cases having to cater for another 20-25 or more people in your raid is logistical nightmare that increases the difficulty by default.

Everything else has been beaten to a pulp from time consuming farming pots/flasks/herbs/food to inability of some classes to actually perform to some of them having only 1 actual spec that can be used in raiding enviroment.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Naxx wasn't super hard when it came to mechanics. It was mostly the scale of boss health, damage, and certain hard cock blocks like resistance gear and set bonuses for tanks (particular on 4 horse). At the same time you had 40 people to gear and each boss dropped like 2 to 3 items. These are things that are hard to factor into today's game. I have no doubts the best of the best would over come it. Your average guilds would get beat up though because of harder gearing and higher requires per individual player. Not to mention a 40 man roster in today's environment would be the nightmare.

[zyZ]

You choose Thaddius to be the fight that's a nightmare? Same polarity left, different polarity right. Done. It was one of the easiest mechanics in there.

servers couldn't handle multiple guilds doing the fight and would lag people out with polarity in group

[KaPe]

I wonder how true all this "players were just bad at this game" argument is. It's almost as if people claim there was no theorycraft, no damage meters, raiders didn't realize obvious mechanics like hit cap, defense, no bossmods and so on. Sure, no logs/armory existed until TBC, but EJ forums was already functioning back in vanilla. You did have some quality discussions about mechanics - not to the level of what we had later, but nowhere near what people believe.

Clearly you didn't, it had nothing to do with "tight tuning" lol, it was just people being bad at the game and the fact that 90% of vanilla was broken/bugged

Tight tuning was a fact and disregarding it all as "lawl, players were just bad" is silly. Patchwerk continously smashed your tanks for absurd amount of damage, which had little to do with skills, but simply high numbers. He demanded high healing and dps - numbers. This was despite things like ignite rolling... numbers. The fight wasn't broken or bugged, that's simply how it worked - and that was trivial boss that had nothing other than brutal melee attacks.

Now think Gothik. Or Kel'thuzad himself. Yeah, not that trivial anymore. Hell, you could wipe on gargoyles(or whatever it was) trash pulls if your numbers were too low. When does that ever happen nowadays outside of pulling too many packs.

I know it's cool to disregard all vanilla raiders as noobs and yourself as this awesomely skilled player that would totally shit on that raid, but it wasn't quite that simple.

[Bryntrollian]

Guilds do not have 40 people today. Guilds are not used to get only 3 items per kill for 40 people. Guilds are not used to be gear checked.

Guilds are not used to guild breaker bosses... 4 horsemen... guilds are not used to lose their maintanks because only a few hight end guilds have the needed roster.

So no...it would takes months...as it took months when is was current content.

Tanks don't require gear like they used to which would take away a lot of the problem.

[Nakotsu]

The reason 4HM was a guild murdering machine was tanks. Allll about the tanks. Guilds wanted the tanks from other guilds because you needed so many geared tanks, and when your tank got sniped it was hard to replace them, and gearing new tanks took so long. My server had a guild notorious for approaching any tank that reached decent AQ40 levels. I don't think any boss in WoW history has created such a cut throat environment.

Compared to today, our tank quit mid BRF and I stepped up and had similar gear in about 2 weeks, and was able to tank just fine with meh gear until then. in Vanilla, you lost your MT, you might not even be able to raid current content that week.

I just solo 4HM and got the achievement too so. Id say 10 mins.

[Jazzhands]

I just solo 4HM and got the achievement too so. Id say 10 mins.

I don't think you even read the OP.

[Deleted]

What i hate in old Naxx was that i dint get any gear from it everything was for tanks and healers rest was used our BWL/AQ gear (some even parts from MC)....