If Naxx40 released in today's modern raiding enviroment, how long would it last?

[melodramocracy]

I'm going to guess, fairly safely, that if you took a current top raiding guild, and put them in a time machine back to vanilla, aside from acquiring the appropriate gear, Naxx itself wouldn't last long at all.

Conversely, if you were to take a snapshot of the best raid guild from 2004 or 5, put them in a time machine and drop them current mythic, they'd get annihilated.

[Deleted]

It would not be released, because Blizzard balances the Game for fucking 5 Year olds!

Buffs? No thats too complicated - REMOVED!

Inferface Options? Too complicated for the Kids - REMOVED!

Different Resource per Class? No one can manage that - REMOVED!

[melodramocracy]

It would not be released, because Blizzard balances the Game for fucking 5 Year olds!

Buffs? No thats too complicated - REMOVED!

Inferface Options? Too complicated for the Kids - REMOVED!

Different Resource per Class? No one can manage that - REMOVED!

You think you want buffs, but you really don't.

[MAGAmobile]

Only thing that would matter is how tightly tuned it is. Mechanics don't really mean much if they don't punish you severely for messing up. If tuning was insane, it'd take weeks. If it's not, a day or two at most.

[Barnabas]

The same 90 days it lasted back then. This is if you have the minimum gear requirement. People would scream if the last tier of gear wasn't good enough for the next raid without further buffs you had to farm. Only 23 US guilds cleared naxx 40 back in vanilla compared to over 1000 guilds back in february of 2016 that cleared mythic archimonde.

[Surfd]

Naxx 2.0 was incredibly toned down compared to Naxx 1.0, I wouldn't even consider them the same instance really besides aesthetics, and it was cleared within 24 hours by the top guild, that cleared it back in the day and already had experience doing harder versions of the fight.

I wouldnt say Naxx 2.0 was incredibly toned down. It might have been slightly easier on a purely numbers standpoint, but not by much. The major difference that made it so much easier was the tuning changes that had to be done to transition from a 40 man raid, to a 25 / 10 man raid. Cut 1/3 or 3/4 of the people out of the raid, and mechanics originally designed with 40 people in mind and a fixed amount of "boss room" space to work with suddenly become ridiculously trivial in some cases. Thaddeus for example was utterly stupid in 10 man, because after you got a decent amount of gear, you could actually position your ENTIRE raid in such a way that nobody ever had to move, because nobody was ever close enough to someone else to overlap polarities.

[Fenixhart]

Are we talking Vanilla design or Modern design.

Because Player Power has improved significantly since Vanilla

[Kakera]

2 raid resets. Potentially 3 depending on the tuning for 4H.

[Jazzhands]

I wouldnt say Naxx 2.0 was incredibly toned down. It might have been slightly easier on a purely numbers standpoint, but not by much. The major difference that made it so much easier was the tuning changes that had to be done to transition from a 40 man raid, to a 25 / 10 man raid. Cut 1/3 or 3/4 of the people out of the raid, and mechanics originally designed with 40 people in mind and a fixed amount of "boss room" space to work with suddenly become ridiculously trivial in some cases. Thaddeus for example was utterly stupid in 10 man, because after you got a decent amount of gear, you could actually position your ENTIRE raid in such a way that nobody ever had to move, because nobody was ever close enough to someone else to overlap polarities.

The biggest thing about it was the reduction in damage over all that players received, every mechanic was significantly more forgiving, on top of AoE healing actually being a thing. You are right about lower numbers helping in some places, but player "space" isn't an issue when you can overlap 40 people on the exact same spot, so things like the dance weren't any different, except in Naxx 1.0 it would pretty much 1 shot you, in 2.0 you could take a hit or two.

Also, you seem to forget that Thaddius had tons of HP, and the whole point of polarity was a stacking damage buff, you would have to massively out gear the fight to not need the buff, so whats the point?

[unixtreme]

It would take about a week max. Naxx is very simple in mechanics compaired to todays. Imagine putting vanilla raiders into todays raids, they would quit in a day or two.

This is SO false, there were people in vanilla who WERE really good, I was even one of them, and now I'm worse than I used to be and still have better mechanical awareness and do better DPS than most raiders.

So people has to stop with that condescending superiority because truth is that 99% of today's raiders are not better than the people who cleared nax at 60.

[khazmodan]

since there are less players now than vanilla to pick from, it might be harder lol. Seriously though, current high level raiders would probably destroy the place but there is nobody left that cares. Its like the opera event in Karazhan with no announcer and no audience, the curtain has already fallen on the WoW stage.

[Tomana]

It would not be released, because Blizzard balances the Game for fucking 5 Year olds!

Buffs? No thats too complicated - REMOVED!

Yes, because setting up pallypower and clicking on it was soooooo complicated. I mean, we're talking multivariable calculus-level here. -_-

Different Resource per Class? No one can manage that - REMOVED!

Errr, vanilla had 3 types of resources, today you have more with different twists. Don't know what you're talking about.

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This is SO false, there were people in vanilla who WERE really good, I was even one of them, and now I'm worse than I used to be and still have better mechanical awareness and do better DPS than most raiders.

I can post random stuff on the Internets too. Yay!

On topic, there was a post on these very forums several years ago (which I didn't bookmark back then, unfortunately) where someone from Paragon was relating there experience at wiping on frost bombs on Saphiron, something they would never fail on in WOTLK. So raiders are improving with the years, which is only normal.

[Deleted]

It would not be released, because Blizzard balances the Game for fucking 5 Year olds!

Buffs? No thats too complicated - REMOVED!

Inferface Options? Too complicated for the Kids - REMOVED!

Different Resource per Class? No one can manage that - REMOVED!

Blizzard aren't removing things because they are to complicated. They remove them because they are unnecessary and make the game impossible to balance.

[Deleted]

remember how in Highmaul a lot of guilds, even the top 25, killed butcher after imperator because of the gearcheck required? yet he was barely harder then patchwerk mechanics wise. so yeah naxx40 would last quite a while, even moreso if there was no PTR to learn complex encounters (horsemen) ahead of time.

[Chemii]

It's interesting how people view it today vs then.

You know 80 Naxxramas was tuned at LFR level and 60 Naxxramas was tuned at mythic level, a bit different. Example: Many people felt Grobbulus was the hardest boss in Naxxramas 80. It was the only boss that wasn't heavily nerfed and changed to be much easier.

A quote with a list, wherby the OP states a boss took five hours to kill was the 3rd hardest is not really convincing.

When Paragon released their statement after killing Lich King Heroic, they said about how hard it was, they made note of the fact that it was harder than anything they've done prior to that including anything in Naxx 60. That was tier 10. In tier 11, they said again it was the most brutal to date. Firelands, Ragnaros again, something like 320 guilds killed it before the next tier.

Everyone talks up how hard Vanilla Naxx was but it was superficial, based on organisation, not actual skill. Gear checks don't equal skill, they are artificial ways of slowing down content.

[markos82]

Without a ress gear, hit rating, mp5 gear, having to watch for aggro.... where one mistake = wipe, having to gear 40 people and bosses dropping small amount of gear. Probably more than 2 months....

[Nitros14]

A quote with a list, wherby the OP states a boss took five hours to kill was the 3rd hardest is not really convincing.

When Paragon released their statement after killing Lich King Heroic, they said about how hard it was, they made note of the fact that it was harder than anything they've done prior to that including anything in Naxx 60. That was tier 10. In tier 11, they said again it was the most brutal to date. Firelands, Ragnaros again, something like 320 guilds killed it before the next tier.

Everyone talks up how hard Vanilla Naxx was but it was superficial, based on organisation, not actual skill. Gear checks don't equal skill, they are artificial ways of slowing down content.

He said it was easy to execute and was as high as it was because of its gear requirements. Any guild doing it would've been smashing their head into four horsemen for weeks/months getting gear to kill Sapphiron with.

Anyway I'm not arguing that Naxxramas was harder than mythic raiding these days just on playskill required. It obviously isn't and encounters are often far more complex now.

But in its own time with the limitations of characters then it was very hard.

[Roadblock]

This is a nonsensical question.

Drop Naxxramas into today's game and everyone and their grandma clears it within an afternoon.

Drop today's players (IRL) into the Vanilla state of the game (aka everything is expensive as fuck, no you don't have 3 million gold stored in a bank already, no you don't have a roster refined over multiple years of experience, no you don't have 50 alt runs, no you don't have bloated player toolkits, etc), and Naxx would last more or less as long as it did.

This is the /thread answer.

[Tojara]

The raiders would a wipe for like months, like back then.


People dont understand that back then it was numberical difficulty that was the main problem, not mechanics like today.

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It doesnt matter how good you are with mechanics nowadays, you would still get crunched

It wouldn't take months.

People would math it out realize what they need and apply today's methods of raiding to shorten the gear grind. Regardless what people like to think, the approach in Vanilla and TBC weren't nearly as hardcore as they are now. People field several alternate characters, raid far more and field several split runs in the first coming weeks (or more). If people knew they needed 'x' amount of gear and more importantly that Sapphiron would be impossible without said amount of frost resistance, they would merely do half a dozen split runs the first couple weeks and trounce through the instance.

I say the above because it wasn't common for people to raid 5, 6 or 7 days a week in those expansions and at a certain point it was actually pretty rare for people to be serious enough to actually flask their entire raid. I still remember the first C'thun kill screenshot having the entire raid with the health flask on and people commenting about how crazy that was.

Maybe it would take longer, but it wouldn't take that long. Naxxaramas, like many Vanilla raids were more gear oriented than mechanics oriented (just saying in retrospect, Naxxaramas was certainly 100x more mechanically difficult than most of the raids prior to it). Today you have instances that are more mechanics oriented than gear oriented, though it's hard to tell generally because the very best guilds acquire gear at such a rapid pace that it realistically puts their 20 man core at week 4 or week 5 of farming by the second week with all the split runs.

[Deleted]

You cannot compare, main reason vanilla took so long was gear, it would be impossible to get that gear in a decent amount of time due to lockouts, you simply cannot just splitrun and so on, there wasn't multiple difficulties back then. No shortcuts and 2 pieces of loot per boss.

If they could gain the gear to be able to do naxx40 in say 2 weeks, it would last 2 weeks.