Refugee rapes 79yo woman at German cemetary.

[Wildtree]

The 'economic refugee' argument really holds no realistic merit.

if you don't have the financial means, you not gonna make it across the planet all the way to Canada.
And you also have no intend to just get to safety.. On your way from say Syria to Canada, there's a plethora of countries, that are safe, that would take you in and shelter you, if you're in need.

If you aim for Canada, a country on the other side of the World, you are not in for rescue. You're in for personal gain.

[Slant]

They also had slavery, ensuring that 'refugees' and immigrants would have to work / contribute to society before they could attain citizenship. (if ever)

Yes, it's worth noting, however, that Roman slavery was more of a contractual situation than it was in the US. So while they were still indentured slaves, they did have rights. And those rights were enforced. It's probably more apt to think of them as servants in the British manservant sense than slaves as in the US cotton field sense.

[Deleted]

I'm being sarcastic, because I'm fed up with these topics, so instead of trying to educate random strangers that don't give a fuck, I'm being sarcastic. Deal with it and move on. I'd like your stricter standards applied, btw... "Oh, you were bombed out of your house? Well, says here that you once stole an apple... no dice, my friend, back to the mine infested warzone you go. Good luck and cheers for trying!"

Uuuh, I know, we could strap a camera on his back and create an actual real life hunger games. If he manages to survive a year and returns an apple (to the probably bombed vendor place), he'll be granted refuge then!

And again, this meshes incredibly well with our need to entertain ourselves. After all, what are subhumans for if not entertainment, eh?

I did not go into specifics about the stricter measures because I am not the person to do that. I am simply voicing an opinion that I think would make things better rather than the shitstorm we re facing currently.
And do not equate me with the rest that you have encountered. Sure I m just a random guy on the internet but taking my time to reply and argue on said topics is because I give a fuck.
I also don't know why you keep mentioning gaining entertainment out of these people while quoting me. It makes me wonder if I ever said something like that which I find quite unlikely.

[Axphism]

Last time I looked at Canadian immigration laws, it had some funky rules like "have X amount of wealth and/or the prospect of creating X amount of jobs in Canada" or something like that. They would be rejected most likely, I think.

I don't know about the wealth part, but I know certain levels of education which largely ties into the part about creating X amount of jobs are very huge for coming to Canada. Alternatively having a family member that is capable of supporting you, or a potential mate that is capable of supporting you, is also valid.

So yeah, trying to come in as a refugee, under those circumstances would likely be rejected.

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I find that in 9 out of 10 cases it's alright to just "try and be a decent person." Learning the actual laws has never occured as mandatory to me. Wheaton's phrase "Don't be a dick." is probably the shortest sentence anyone has to learn to get by in every western country without coming into conflict with existing criminal laws.

Haha completely agree. "Try your best to not be a dick" is definitely the best thing you could live by.

[Wildtree]

Well, most legal stuff the Romans thought up was carried over into modern times. They had some very smart people in Rome. Our entire understanding of inheritance and families and marriage etc. is more or less exactly how the Romans did it. Same with contracts and a shitton of other civil law stuff (as in citizen vs. citizen, not as in anglo-saxon law system).

Them Saxons should have never taught angling to those island dwellers..

[Uriel]

First off "he didn't know any better" is not something a judge would say. So yeah, good job on your "media = judge" correlation there. Awesome. What a judge would say is Ignorantia legis non excusat. I'm posting it in Latin, hoping it'll trigger something with the English speaking folks. But for you, it means "Unwissenheit schützt vor Strafe nicht." That is what an actual judge would say.

As for sending everyone back to their home country and needing a prison for that because of lawsuits taking too long. Well, that's the low budget problem. And since we're talking legal realities, you cannot deport them back to their countries if they're refugees. What happens is that you... oh why do I fucking bother, it's not like you care of even understand. Let's just say that's not how it works. We'll put them in prison for the time being.

You do not need to lecture or insult me. I am well aware of what is the law and what is just hearsay.
But there are politicians, most noticable "Bündnis90 die Grünen" who say such sentences and shake their head when "a poor refugee" is found guilty. No media involved, I was personally present when she said it. It was an live discussion held in our townhall. Sure she was not one of those politicians who have anything to say, some low local politician, but it sickened me even hearing stuff like that. Again no media involved except maybe a microphone to amplify her voice.


And I guess you didn't read properly. Sure my english ain't so good, I admit so maybe it was my fault. I explicitly stated that "you can't send them back".
I am well aware that you cant send people back to a warzone. I also stated that it would be impossible even if you could because of the logistic effort involved and our faulty law. Although I do know about those things, most people don't and I was telling them that it is just not possible to "just get rid of them" like many tend to believe

Also forgive me, but if you continue to be so snarky to people you don't know, I have no choice as to not take you serious anymore. If you do not like such topics click somewhere else.

[Slant]

I did not go into specifics about the stricter measures because I am not the person to do that. I am simply voicing an opinion that I think would make things better rather than the shitstorm we re facing currently.
And do not equate me with the rest that you have encountered. Sure I m just a random guy on the internet but taking my time to reply and argue on said topics is because I give a fuck.
I also don't know why you keep mentioning gaining entertainment out of these people while quoting me. It makes me wonder if I ever said something like that which I find quite unlikely.

I'm sorry, the entertainment bit isn't you, you try to make reasonable posts, you're just unlucky in that you encounter me in an exceptionally foul mood today. But to understand this, you'd need to have followed the past oh, year or so of these discussions on this forum. Where people start out sounding reasonable and when I ask them "Ok, stricter how?" they come up with nothing.

We all want things to improve and I'm sick of the shit I read in the news just as much as you do. But while I'm trying not to contribute to a toxic situation by shouting "Get rid of them!" while knowing that it's practically impossible to do that at the moment, I try to discuss constructive solutions.

This is where you come in. You have what I call a 2 second thought. You see a problem (rape of woman), correctly identify the immediate cause of it (a refugee) and try to fix the equation so it doesn't present a problem in the future (remove refugee = no more rape of woman). This is what I call a 2 second thought. Because your thought process stops there.

It doesn't ask if that'll really stop rape across the nation (it won't), how you're going to remove the refugee from that equation (other than, you know.. killing him), how you're going to remain the same person that you are (because if you kill him, you're basically starting to abandon the western values and moral compass that you're obviously trying to connect) and so on and so forth. I haven't even talked about money yet, that's a whole different can of worms.

The problem is that western culture embraced concepts of liberties and rights of the civilian population that - by design! - make us vulnerable to these kinds of attacks. The very freedoms that we enjoy also need to be provided to everyone else. And since we cannot mind read people to figure out who's gonna do bad dude stuff ahead of time, we're consciously risking that people do bad dude stuff while enjoying our freedoms.

This is the nature of the beast, this is our gordic knot. And these 2 second thoughts, while well meant, aren't helpful. We're not Alexanders with a sword. We actually have to untie that piece of shit properly. We can't just go and slay millions of people, although that would definitely also be a viable solution. Albeit, we'd have to ask ourselves who the real monster is at the end of the slaughter.

[Deleted]

if you don't have the financial means, you not gonna make it across the planet all the way to Canada.
And you also have no intend to just get to safety.. On your way from say Syria to Canada, there's a plethora of countries, that are safe, that would take you in and shelter you, if you're in need.

If you aim for Canada, a country on the other side of the World, you are not in for rescue. You're in for personal gain.

They gain personal gain out of europe as well though. That is why a lot of them go to or aim to go to selective european countries like Germany.
As a Greek I can tell you that every single refugee I ve encountered and talked to (which is a lot seeing as you have a shit ton of them in comparison to how much our country can realisticly take care of) does not want to stay in Greece. They are just using it as means to get to Germany for better welfare and treatment since we cannot really provide much of that.
I m a random dude on the internet and you can choose not to believe me but these are things directly taken out of conversations I ve had with refugees.
Not saying this to blame them btw just trying to contradict that canada would be their go to choice for personal gain.

[Raldazzar]

Ι was not going to comment in this thread but this is so worth the infraction.
Go fuck yourself. You are disgustingly sick.

the mods won't do anything, they tend to let this kind of sick shit go whilst infracting people who call them on it.

[Slant]

You do not need to lecture or insult me. I am well aware of what is the law and what is just hearsay.
But there are politicians, most noticable "Bündnis90 die Grünen" who say such sentences and shake their head when "a poor refugee" is found guilty. No media involved, I was personally present when she said it. It was an live discussion held in our townhall. Sure she was not one of those politicians who have anything to say, some low local politician, but it sickened me even hearing stuff like that. Again no media involved except maybe a microphone to amplify her voice.


And I guess you didn't read properly. Sure my english ain't so good, I admit so maybe it was my fault. I explicitly stated that "you can't send them back".
I am well aware that you cant send people back to a warzone. I also stated that it would be impossible even if you could because of the logistic effort involved and our faulty law. Although I do know about those things, most people don't and I was telling them that it is just not possible to "just get rid of them" like many tend to believe

Also forgive me, but if you continue to be so snarky to people you don't know, I have no choice as to not take you serious anymore. If you do not like such topics click somewhere else.

Why are you even talking about politicians like the Greens? Nobody - in any country - gives a shit about what their local chapter of the Greens says. Certainly not in Germany. Politicians talk bullshit all day, every day. Is that what you're basing your opinion on? The polemic bullshit some random douche spouts of in his campaign? A refugee coming to Germany will live by our laws and please, I'll have him met with the full weight of our history when I say his status as refugee should not give him any lenience outside what is in the legal texts. Those fucks should stay humble and fucking try not to look at anyone wrong here.

But... polemicking about how they get off easy because they're refugees is creating the exact kind of atmosphere that fosters racism. So no, you don't get to say that when I know for a fact that judges rule differently. What a politician says somewhere in some village townhall actually really and truly doesn't matter anymore than an alien taking a dump in his toilet billions of lightyears away from here.

And I wasn't too clear apparently, why are we discussing prisons near an airport when the very idea of sending them back is impossible? That's why I wrote my bit, just to clarify. Not necessarily for you, but for other people as well.

As for the snarky tone, you may or may not excuse it, but after a fucking year of hateful racism and all kinds of right wing propaganda, I'm a bit more short tempered on this than others may be that just joined the whole trend of talking about refugees.

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There always have been people so self-consumed with trying to be good people that they'd be willing to defend criminals. Notable priests (and saints) in the past have forgiven criminals for their sins in the hope it would convert them and make them see the light.

To be fair, there are not completely wrong, a society can influence and corrupt an individual up to the point they become a criminal. A man's live might've been so broken that he doesn't know any better anymore, even if somewhere deep inside there is a part of him that understands he isn't being nice or decent.

There is nothing 'sickening' about those who have learned to "turn the other cheek". It's a virtue... I accept it as a virtue, while hesitantly accepting it as influence on my policy. People's worldviews can vastly differ.

Some will call it being 'cucked'. Which is just insulting and shouldn't be given credit as an argument holding merit.

I'd like to see one of these internet warriors time travel back in time and call Ghandi a cuck. Or MLK. See how that turns out. I'm guessing by the end of that conversation they'll either be devout followers or assassinate those two on the spot. But they sure as hell won't call them cucks anymore.

[Wildtree]

Sure, but you can't realistically expect East-Europe or Greece and Italy to keep all the refugees though?

of course not.
Didn't specify any country for that matter.
I was focusing on the refugee themselves.
But, as far as countries who take refugees goes. As bad as it might seem for us Europeans. The neighboring countries have it worse.
If one looks into those numbers, gigantic.
Pakistan, Turkey, etc.

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Not saying this to blame them btw just trying to contradict that canada would be their go to choice for personal gain.

Of course not, you're right.
Canada would be just a lot more obvious, than say, Germany, Austria, Hungary.
The closer the country to the crisis zone, the easier it gets for the "eco-tourist" refugee".

[Blobfish]

Thats F--ken sick

And just to think that countries like Germany and Sweden gave these a/holes sanctuary
and this is how they pay them back..

Im angry but more upset about what these pr--cks are doing to Germany & Sweden.

[Slant]

Thats F--ken sick

And just to think that countries like Germany and Sweden gave these a/holes sanctuary
and this is how they pay them back..

Im angry but more upset about what these pr--cks are doing to Germany & Sweden.

Dude, we imported them to be part of our first national Refugee Games that we're about to have in 2 years. It's kinda a mix between the Hunger Games and The Purge. It's a national holiday on which Germans get to do to Refugees whatever they want without any laws applying for that one day. And the last Refguee to survive gets to stay in Germany and is granted citizenship.

These crimes? Small price to pay for the greatest show on Earth!

[Uriel]

There always have been people so self-consumed with trying to be good people that they'd be willing to defend criminals. Notable priests (and saints) in the past have forgiven criminals for their sins in the hope it would convert them and make them see the light.

To be fair, there are not completely wrong, a society can influence and corrupt an individual up to the point they become a criminal. A man's live might've been so broken that he doesn't know any better anymore, even if somewhere deep inside there is a part of him that understands he isn't being nice or decent.

There is nothing 'sickening' about those who have learned to "turn the other cheek". It's a virtue... I accept it as a virtue, while hesitantly accepting it as influence on my policy. People's worldviews can vastly differ.

Some will call it being 'cucked'. Which is just insulting and shouldn't be given credit as an argument holding merit.

Yes your are right but I literally quoted her. "he doesn't know it any better". The then went on stateting that in some countries it would be accepted and/or normal of raping women, because women are viewed have a lower social level. She also defended herself with saying that the rapist probably took the Granny not wearing a veil of some sorts, as an invitation.

Someone in the crowd then asked in what country she thinks it is "normal" to rape strangers... well she couldn't answer that despite weaving it into many words like a pro politician. Well that was one incident of a low class politican but there are even more dump people spourting such nonesense.

I agree with you, if you lecture this man about what he did and how things are handled here, he might be granted mercy. I always thought that just putting somebody in prison doesn't solve the problem. They probably need someone who tells them what was wrong and how they should have behaved or what they should have done differently to prevent such things. Sadly we have not enough ressources to reach and lecture them all

[Deleted]

of course not.
Didn't specify any country for that matter.
I was focusing on the refugee themselves.
But, as far as countries who take refugees goes. As bad as it might seem for us Europeans. The neighboring countries have it worse.
If one looks into those numbers, gigantic.
Pakistan, Turkey, etc.

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Of course not, you're right.
Canada would be just a lot more obvious, than say, Germany, Austria, Hungary.
The closer the country to the crisis zone, the easier it gets for the "eco-tourist" refugee".

Wait they actually go to Pakistan for refuge? I really did not know that.
I thought the Pakistanis hated them. LIke literally here in Greece we have had a lot of Pakistanis even before the Syrians came for refuge and whenever a Pakistani meets a Syrian things don't really go too well.
It does not happen all the time but it is pretty common to see fights break out between those 2 specific groups. We had a huge fight break out in a refuge camp that had both Pakistanis and Syrians. I think it was something about food portions but I m not too sure.

[unbound]

'Isolated incident'

'he wasn't even religious, he drank and ate pork'

'German men rape too'

Which one is it this time libs?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but immigrants aren't going around raping women willy-nilly like you want to think is happening. So, yes, it is an isolated incident.

Here is a 2004 study that shows 13% of German women have experienced some form of criminal sexualized violence. Do you think the immigrants own time machines too?

It is sad? Yes. Is it sick? Yes. Should the man have the book thrown at him? Yes.

Does this mean all immigrants are rapists? ... Are people really this stupid to think this is true?

Study after study after study has shown that immigrant crime rates are notably lower than the crime rates of citizens. I'm sorry that reality doesn't jive with what you want to believe, but that is the reality.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” - Isaac Asimov

[Wildtree]

Wait they actually go to Pakistan for refuge? I really did not know that.

Google refugees in Pakistan...
First hit:

A comprehensive guide to resettlement, 2013.
Afghan refugees in Iran and Pakistan constitute the largest and most protracted refugee population under UNHCR's mandate.
Pakistan hosts 1,615,876 refugees, and Iran 840,158 at 1 January 2014.

http://www.resettlement.eu/page/afgh...ran-pakistan-0

That might be outdated, I believe I've seen a larger number now for Turkey. Not sure.

[Deleted]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but immigrants aren't going around raping women willy-nilly like you want to think is happening. So, yes, it is an isolated incident.

Here is a 2004 study that shows 13% of German women have experienced some form of criminal sexualized violence. Do you think the immigrants own time machines too?

It is sad? Yes. Is it sick? Yes. Should the man have the book thrown at him? Yes.

Does this mean all immigrants are rapists? ... Are people really this stupid to think this is true?

Study after study after study has shown that immigrant crime rates are notably lower than the crime rates of citizens. I'm sorry that reality doesn't jive with what you want to believe, but that is the reality.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” - Isaac Asimov

No, studies have in fact shown the exact oposite and statistical graphs have been posted in this thread that further prove this if you wanna read back a few posts.
But exactly because people are not stupid they do not believe that everyone should get mass deported for the actions of a few.

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Google refugees in Pakistan...
First hit:


http://www.resettlement.eu/page/afgh...ran-pakistan-0

That might be outdated, I believe I've seen a larger number now for Turkey. Not sure.

Damn that is really interesting. The Pakistanis in Greece really hate their guts :/

[Hana Song]

The 'economic refugee' argument really holds no realistic merit.

Why not? Afghanistan is about same distance to germany as it is to south korea but we don't get anything close to the amount of refugees as germany do from there, they go to australia too instead of here

[Hana Song]

I explained why, because that would mean all refugees would have to be kept in the poorer border countries. Italy, Greece, East-Europe etc.

This does not explain why they avoid going here and instead go to australia who are much farther away than us