Legion: Elemental Specific

[Northy]

I agree with Cartoonz that Elemental is the worst PvP caster spec in Legion.

[shammypie]

Path of Flame would make a lot more sense as well as game-play performance wise if the talent gave a chance to add Flame Shock on targets struck by Chain Lightning.

Oh well.

no the real problem is elemental has 4 outdated taxes on it. #1 is the hybrid tax, #2 is the simplicity tax, #3 is the popularity tax, and #4 is the ranged tax. Or to summarize it's an easy ranged spec with healing.

on an actual note I expect somewhere in the middle of the expansion the bandaids will come out once it's been clear by the beating of the dead horse that elemental is lacking in all talent configurations which will start too late in the second tier and end half way through the last tier.

To be fair though elemental should hit like a truck. Base mastery percentages as well as a buff to LB would go a long way to making the spec more robust.

[Hivey]

no the real problem is elemental has 4 outdated taxes on it. #1 is the hybrid tax, #2 is the simplicity tax, #3 is the popularity tax, and #4 is the ranged tax. Or to summarize it's an easy ranged spec with healing.

on an actual note I expect somewhere in the middle of the expansion the bandaids will come out once it's been clear by the beating of the dead horse that elemental is lacking in all talent configurations which will start too late in the second tier and end half way through the last tier.

To be fair though elemental should hit like a truck. Base mastery percentages as well as a buff to LB would go a long way to making the spec more robust.

I'll agree with the simplicity. Aside from Elemental Blast looking cool, the main reason i take it is to mix up the rotation a bit. Without it, is very "meh".

[Lucrece]

Ridiculous comment.

Firelands Druids come to mind - Kitty form DPS made Bear tanks arguably required if you wanted high rank kills, really really strong and arguably needed for H Rag Ranged DPS in Balance and maybe the best overall healer for the whole tier. Remind me again if Druids were the only class in the game then? Oh, they weren't.

If the situation is correct every DPS spec should, ideally, be able to compete for the top spot. Clearly Ele is not going to be #1 on high movement or multi target fights, that's fine. On a single target Butcher/Patchwerk/Baleroc or whatever I don't see any reason that Elemental shouldn't be #1 competitive regardless of how good Enhance or Resto is.

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One of my biggest gripes with Ele currently on the beta is the strength of Lava Burst overall. Mainly, I just don't like how it doesn't scale at all with what is currently regarded as Ele's best stat in crit.

Kind of wish that it got the Choas Bolt or Combustion treatment where crit for that spell was rolled into another stat, either by flat %damage increase or maybe a %chance to proc another overload on the spell based on your crit. Not really fussed if they have to make changes elsewhere to accommodate extra damage, just thought it would be a nice change to spell that currently isn't as satisfying as I think it should be to press.

Lava Burst is weak thanks to overload and lava surge.

Destro locks don't get 30% cooldown and instant cast resets on chaosbolt with Immolate ticks, and their Chaosbolt doesn't have a chance to hit again for 80% of the damage.


So when you have such a chance for massive RNG burst, lava burst is going to be weaker to average out.

There's a PvP talent that removes Lava Surge and makes Lava Burst do 150% extra damage.

If you want stronger lava bursts, you need to give up lava surge.

And Lava Burst is an 8 sec cd 1.72 sec cast, there is NEVER going to be a time when its damage should approach that of a chaosbolt given how much more frequently it can be cast and how it's a much shorter cast time.

[shammypie]

Lava Burst is weak thanks to overload and lava surge.

And Lava Burst is an 8 sec cd 1.72 sec cast, there is NEVER going to be a time when its damage should approach that of a chaosbolt given how much more frequently it can be cast and how it's a much shorter cast time.

true and it doesn't need to be, but the rest of the kit has to be balanced and that's the true problem. I've never seen blizzard spend more than 5 mins on the spec and there was a point in the past when players had more information on it than the devs.

#AllSpecsCreatedEqual

[miffy23]

So can not using the Lava Burst on the initial add to spread it, and instead saving it for the "high priority add".

If there are multiple adds I'm not sure that spreading FS to one of them is worthwhile when you can just CL straight away, given that if they are truly high priority the damage from the initial LvB won't aid in killing them at all and FS would need to tick 3-4 times per CL on one of the adds, ignoring that CL is going to hit 4(if you chain off main/boss target) or 5.

I guess I just don't see the talent as being that strong, at all, at 110. It certainly hasn't been in my experience.

Lava Burst will remain your priority cast until you can hit 3+ targets, so a passive spread will never be a bad thing. It is certainly not an overly amazing talent, but it does its job right now on that tier to trump the other two for certain types of fights. I still maintain that pushing this talent too far will make it the default choice for anything except flat out single target, and that's never interesting in my book.

[BlackGoldShooter]

One of my biggest gripes with Ele currently on the beta is the strength of Lava Burst overall. Mainly, I just don't like how it doesn't scale at all with what is currently regarded as Ele's best stat in crit.

It does scale, but you HAVE to take Ascendance.

[elcapone]

I agree with Cartoonz that Elemental is the worst PvP caster spec in Legion.

Funny that they nerfed control lava, I just don't get it. oh yeah we are overpowered but we dont know it.

[Nebria]

If there are multiple adds I'm not sure that spreading FS to one of them is worthwhile when you can just CL straight away, given that if they are truly high priority the damage from the initial LvB won't aid in killing them at all and FS would need to tick 3-4 times per CL on one of the adds, ignoring that CL is going to hit 4(if you chain off main/boss target) or 5.

I guess I just don't see the talent as being that strong, at all, at 110. It certainly hasn't been in my experience.

The Volcanic Inferno trait is that LvB deals some aoe damage so I guess it is a good idea to have FS ticking to use Lava Surge procs, even during AOE.
If this justifies using this talent, I don't know.
Question for me is, does it spread only once? If I hit the target with a 2nd LvB, does it spread to another target automatically? So that I end with a FS on everything after some time? I read somewhere it only spreads once.

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It does scale, but you HAVE to take Ascendance.

Just to remember, only during Ascendance it scales with crit. If it is not active, it doesn't scale with crit.

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Lava Burst is weak thanks to overload and lava surge.

Exactly this. And the PvP talent indicates the true problem here is not the overload, it is the lava surge proc because if this is high enough you can spam LvB like crazy.

This is why Elemental Blast or Ice Fury are/should be the big hitters. They have a cool down and so they can't be spammed.

[Lucrece]

I mean, I don't even want LvB buffed because LvB builds are already way ahead of LB builds, I don't want to be stuck with ascendance and primal elementalist forever and ever.

Our artifact spell is weak because LB sucks to begin with. LB hits for virtually almost 3 times what LB is hitting for. That's big enough a gap.

They need to buff Lightning Bolt by quite a bit and maybe Lava Burst by like 10% more, and give ele shamans spiritwalker's grace and shamanistic rage back.

Same goes for enhancement, it needs shamanistic rage back and feral spirits healing.

Both shamn specs are sooooo squishy.

[gambit998]

The Volcanic Inferno trait is that LvB deals some aoe damage so I guess it is a good idea to have FS ticking to use Lava Surge procs, even during AOE.
If this justifies using this talent, I don't know.
Question for me is, does it spread only once? If I hit the target with a 2nd LvB, does it spread to another target automatically? So that I end with a FS on everything after some time? I read somewhere it only spreads once.

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Just to remember, only during Ascendance it scales with crit. If it is not active, it doesn't scale with crit.

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Exactly this. And the PvP talent indicates the true problem here is not the overload, it is the lava surge proc because if this is high enough you can spam LvB like crazy.

This is why Elemental Blast or Ice Fury are/should be the big hitters. They have a cool down and so they can't be spammed.

I agree with you Elemental Blast with its cooldown and lack of a reset and the fact that it is a talent it should hit harder or at least slow the fking target it hits, i mean why the hell does our ice that we throw not slow targets? Both Elemental Blast and Icefury should have an attatched root to them or a slow at least. There are so many things they could have done with these 2 talents that should do moe than they are currently doing. I mean our castimes on ALL of our single target damage is EXACTLY the same, no variation nothing. (Lazy, Half assed design in my eyes)

[Qck]

Lava Burst is weak thanks to overload and lava surge.

Destro locks don't get 30% cooldown and instant cast resets on chaosbolt with Immolate ticks, and their Chaosbolt doesn't have a chance to hit again for 80% of the damage.

While true, CB does get to cleave with Havoc.

Regardless, I don't care if it hits as hard as CB or not. The fact that it doesn't scale, outside of a 3 minute CD, with crit at all is something I'm not a fan of.

The Volcanic Inferno trait is that LvB deals some aoe damage so I guess it is a good idea to have FS ticking to use Lava Surge procs, even during AOE.
If this justifies using this talent, I don't know.
Question for me is, does it spread only once? If I hit the target with a 2nd LvB, does it spread to another target automatically? So that I end with a FS on everything after some time? I read somewhere it only spreads once.

I think the trait is pretty bad honestly. I'd rather just use the CL on more than 3 targets, personally, and if the target is a "needs to die right fucking now", I'm not using my LvB on anything but that target either. I'll spend the global for FS to kill it faster.

I'm really not sure about multiple spreads, honestly, but the fact that CL/EQ spamming is better than LvB on more than 3+ targets tell me that it's kind of a moot point regardless.

Lava Burst will remain your priority cast until you can hit 3+ targets, so a passive spread will never be a bad thing. It is certainly not an overly amazing talent, but it does its job right now on that tier to trump the other two for certain types of fights. I still maintain that pushing this talent too far will make it the default choice for anything except flat out single target, and that's never interesting in my book.

Are there any concrete numbers that the talent is, in fact, better than Totem Mastery on 2-3 targets? I'm just not sure I can see that saving 1 global every 20-30 seconds and a 5% bump to LvB is better than what TM provides.

If it's some niche situation where if an add comes every 45 seconds and dies in 33 seconds or whatever, then fair enough.. but I'm not sure that fight reliably exists.

It does scale, but you HAVE to take Ascendance.

Yep, and it feels nice when Asc is up. I just don't like wasted stats on spells, especially when the stat is regarded as your best stat. I think Combustion/CB/Asc LvB are good designs.

I'd even be fine with removing some damage from LvB naturally to add it back in via crit just so the stat scales better.

They need to buff Lightning Bolt by quite a bit and maybe Lava Burst by like 10% more, and give ele shamans spiritwalker's grace and shamanistic rage back.

Same goes for enhancement, it needs shamanistic rage back and feral spirits healing.

Both shamn specs are sooooo squishy.

This I 100% agree with. I feel useless against big damage in both PvE and PvP and it's actually a real problem in the latter. You're basically just a target dummy for melee without the ability to tank anything at all.

[Deleted]

How much stat is Elemental Blast going to give us at 110? Cuz atm is 184 which is a joke. Wonder if we'll be using EB in Legion

[miffy23]

W



Are there any concrete numbers that the talent is, in fact, better than Totem Mastery on 2-3 targets? I'm just not sure I can see that saving 1 global every 20-30 seconds and a 5% bump to LvB is better than what TM provides.

If it's some niche situation where if an add comes every 45 seconds and dies in 33 seconds or whatever, then fair enough.. but I'm not sure that fight reliably exists.

I'm talking about intermittent add cleave such as on Xhul, Iskar and Mannoroth, even Archimonde. I found the talent to free up GCDs on those burst phases to quickly set up EQ spam.

On fights like Council Totem Mastery is clearly superior.

[Lightning-]

How much stat is Elemental Blast going to give us at 110? Cuz atm is 184 which is a joke. Wonder if we'll be using EB in Legion

I'd like to know that too. 184 right now feels like nothing at all.

Edit: WOWDB Talent Calculator says it gives 1200.

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Will there be any change to Storm Elemental? It hits less than Fire Ele.
I know it gives some Maelstrom, but not enough to make it better than Elemental Mastery.

[Morg]

I'd like to know that too. 184 right now feels like nothing at all.

Edit: WOWDB Talent Calculator says it gives 1200.

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Will there be any change to Storm Elemental? It hits less than Fire Ele.
I know it gives some Maelstrom, but not enough to make it better than Elemental Mastery.

I'd be shocked if there wasn't an overall number on the patch that brings the first raid into the game at 110 after 5 mans are done for a couple weeks. If storm ele is not being used they will have data on it, then its up to them whether they want to buff its damage, maelstrom generation or leave it as is i guess.

[Northy]

The recent hotfixes indicate that Blizz is pushing us towards Resto.

[Nekobe140]

Decided to shelf my shaman because the two DPS specs I've enjoyed over the years aren't nearly as enjoyable for myself in its current form. It's a damn shame but it looks like I'll be moving towards Druid and Mage.

[Lightning-]

The recent hotfixes indicate that Blizz is pushing us towards Resto.

Weren't those only PvP changes?

[Rezhka]

Question to all ele beta tester, is Icefury viable for sustain damage later on lv 110? Because today I've just tested it on my garrison dummy, buffed FrS non-crit dmg hit much more harder than LB and slightly lower from LvB crit dmg. And to timed it with Ele Focus proc is also fun. A bit twist to our rotation.