"Sovereign Citizen" movement

[Cradyz]

fuck sovereign citizens. The Living Man is where it's at!

He is the living man, the breath of the soil, the voice of the wind, protected by natural law and he is no slave to your corporate fiction.

Seriously though these sovereign citizens are either poor deluded souls or plain assholes. Haven't seen a video yet where one of them wasn't 'standing up' to authority by being an arrogant, selfish, hypocrite ruining everybody's day out of some sense of delusional self-importance. Saw this video of a guy riding on the subway refusing to buy a ticket because he rejects the attendants authority and then refusing to get off when he is told to do so.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Either fully commit and go live in the mountains somewhere or join civil society like the rest of us you fucking hypocrite.

[Krazzorx]

Which raises the question of, "If you went 100mph drunk through a school zone and did NOT hit anyone, is that a 'victimless crime'"?

It doesn't matter what title it's given, if you were allowed to do that, more would drive drunk and there would be more accidents and deaths.

The goal is to reduce as much as possible a tragedy to happen.

[Tijuana]

People get arrested for a lot of "crimes" that don't involve the intent to harm others.

Posting hateful comments on facebook, drug use, prostitution, (in some states it's still illegal to have sex in any way other than missionary) and I also recall a kid getting arrested because he had nude pictures of himself on his phone, etc. but much more than that. There are a lot of "regulations" etc for which you can end up fined into poverty.

I strongly believe that if an individual does not use violence that the state has no right to use violence against them either, and forcefully detaining someone is violence too.

You don't think refusal to comply with an arrest is an act of violence? You are basically telling the community that the rules don't apply to you, but the benefits do.

[jaykaywhy]

Victimless crime convictions are actually a very large part of the American prison population. Gambling, recreational drug use, prostitution, to name the most common.

The relevance here is that while these so called sovereign citizens do seem a bit crazy at times, they share a common thread with the Libertarian movement that fights towards police, policy and law reform.

Whoa, buddy. How is prostitution a victimless crime?

According to your words, a victimless crime is a crime where the only "potential harm" is to yourself. But prostitution is intrinsically related to crimes involving others, such as sexual exploitation, human trafficking, or kidnapping.

[Krazzorx]

People get arrested for a lot of "crimes" that don't involve the intent to harm others.

Posting hateful comments on facebook, drug use, prostitution, (in some states it's still illegal to have sex in any way other than missionary) and I also recall a kid getting arrested because he had nude pictures of himself on his phone, etc. but much more than that. There are a lot of "regulations" etc for which you can end up fined into poverty.

I strongly believe that if an individual does not use violence that the state has no right to use violence against them either, and forcefully detaining someone is violence too.

It's not a black and white issue like that though. Because all those things do affect how people act. It's extremely naive to think what people read or write or view doesn't affect them.

Now should there be laws against it and to what extent? That's what should be discussed. But thinking it doesn't negatively affect them and others is going too far.

[Sedative]

Whoa, buddy. How is prostitution a victimless crime?

According to your words, a victimless crime is a crime where the only "potential harm" is to yourself. But prostitution is intrinsically related to crimes involving others, such as sexual exploitation, human trafficking, or kidnapping.

Human trafficking and kidnapping are crimes in themselves. Sex between consenting adults has no victim. The keyword here is consent, check out Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Costa Rica, France, Germany, Greece, Mexico, Italy, Israel, Nevada as an example, and take your hyperbole elsewhere.

[PACOX]

Its not anything new.

Used to be pretty popular on reddit until BLM came around, suddenly the police became popular...

Its not so bad that they are attempting to make sure law enforcement is following the law, its that the people in the videos are usually misinformed and not very diplomatic when it comes to the issues. Some of the things they bring up have absolutely no merit. Don't start arguing the legality of stops and detention until things are actually get illegal, you can get a lawyer. The police are not judges or jury, you are not a lawyer.

[Krazzorx]

Just because the community made some rules doesn't mean the rules are just or ethical. Not so long ago people used to get thrown in jail for the simple act of having had consensual BDSM sex with their wives in the bedroom, or for being gay, or for being black in a 'white only' shop. Sometimes the community needs to be told to go fuck itself.

The likelihood though that an average person can analyze and look at all the sides of an issue of what is just and ethical is pretty limited. And it's normally based on what benefits them over everyone else. (As perspective is limited)

Yes the community is sometimes very wrong, but I wouldn't rule it out all the time.

[Very Tired]

No idea how people got the idea that standing up to the cops or flexing your sudo authority was a good idea. I mean, is there a famous video or something of it ever actually working out well for a single person?

[Deleted]

The relevance here is that while these so called sovereign citizens do seem a bit crazy at times, they share a common thread with the Libertarian movement that fights towards police, policy and law reform.

Of course they seem crazy when a lot of these threads and videos are aimed at making them look like that.

[I Push Buttons]

No idea how people got the idea that standing up to the cops or flexing your sudo authority was a good idea. I mean, is there a famous video or something of it ever actually working out well for a single person?

If you pay very close attention, you will notice that all of those people are in fact very big idiots.

[Revi]

This is by far the most entertaining one:

[I Push Buttons]

Of course they seem crazy when a lot of these threads and videos are aimed at making them look like that.

But they made most of those videos themselves.

[Sedative]

No idea how people got the idea that standing up to the cops or flexing your sudo authority was a good idea. I mean, is there a famous video or something of it ever actually working out well for a single person?

It really depends on context (and unfortunately sometimes your ethnicity...). Yes there are many examples of this, because the people involved researched and understood their rights. Look up "1st Amendment Audit" on YouTube just as an example.

[Deleted]

They shouldn't be using the roads built by taxpayers then, they don't need a license if they don't drive because they don't use tax payers roads. They shouldn't be able to call the police or firemen, call 911 or use emergency rooms either. They are totally free to walk all they want.

People do have a right to travel and roads would still be there regardless of driving licences.

[kage]

lets make compilations of people being abused by other people, for really nothing, and laugh about it! nothing sociopaths like to do better i suppose

Have you met a human? So long as no one dies or is seriously injured we laugh at strangers misfortune, hell some assholes don't even care about those first stipulations. If they're crying or something like that you should for sure help though.

- - - Updated - - -

People who think mailing a form that isn't made by the government to said government and/or burning all their necessary documentation means the law only applies to them when they want it to. I have an instinctive dislike for the crowd that thinks the constitution reads 'and your taxes should be optional and only go towards things you like.' forget about these guys demanding their rights aka the rights of a citizen and excepting none of the responsibilities that come with it.

There was an evil Dragnet style parody of these guys on CSI once I mention cause the real bad guy turned out to be the kid played by young Justin Bieber and that was kind of hilarious.

[zorkuus]

They use public roads and claim they can't get pulled over?

Well m'kay... there's an idiot born every second.

[Gorgodeus]

Indeed, pretty much all land in the world nowadays is claimed by a certain government (except for Arctic and Antarctic, but it is very hard to survive there without any external support). So, short of living in a wild forest, in social isolation, there really isn't many options for them. They could, I suppose, buy a large piece of land, but they would still have to pay tax off it, and they would likely have to impose a certain mini-government still to manage it - which goes contrary to their ideas.

There is no land in the Arctic, and most of Antarctica is already claimed (7 countries on 8 territories).

[Holofernes]

the first time i encountered this kind of stuff was in tc boyles new roman last summer. Its really hillarious, if it would be negro people, they would be shot for sure .

[Blur4stuff]

do they use roads and breath air?

if so they are leeching off the rest of us. not so sovereign.