[Movie/Comic] DC Extended Universe

[Jotaux]

I just finished it, loved it! The only complaint was Kevin Conroy was a bit flat.

[Stormcall]

You mean the guy that brought back the GL's to their former glory? Yeah what a shit guy...

Also the guy that made Aquaman a badass that readers take seriously. Really, anyone calling Johns shit is someone who probably shouldn't be reading superhero comics, cause I just don't think it's really the genre they're looking for.

And Babs fucking Batman? No, never shoulda happened. Killing Joke was already a low point for her, now they gotta make it worse?

[ati87]

Yeah...this new development of her wanting to seduce and screw Batman is just...gross. Like...the definition of everything wrong with DC comics. It's disgusting. They took something they could have redeemed and looked amazing and made it terrible. Fuck you DC. You ruin everything.

just more open this time, in the old shows she had a thing for him already

[Mahourai]

Pretty disappointing. The Joker seems alot more human in this incarnation, giving him an origin story detracts from the character for me and his plan ends in utter failure whilst also being pretty puerile and simple it's hard to imagine him as Batmans intellectual equal and nemesis.

That is, in fact, the point of giving Joker an origin. I'll quote myself from an old thread:

Killing Joke can pretty easily be read as an indictment of its own readership, partially for wanting "shocking" moments like Gordon being shown pictures of his own daughter after her sexual assault. It's ghoulish, and it's why Batman and Joker both "break character" at the end and share a laugh - which makes no sense for Batman as a character diegetically, but is sensible as a response to the trend in the comics industry (note that Killing Joke was being written as DC was planning to brutally murder Robin later that year).

Killing Joke also deliberately establishes a banal, stupid origin story for Joker, mocking the industry's trend (which continues to present day) of just redoing origin stories to "get it right" at the expense of doing anything new.

The fact that it won the Eisner because people thought Joker sexually assaulting Barbara Gordon was mature, deep storytelling is a pretty fucking hilarious joke itself.

EDIT:

Also the guy that made Aquaman a badass that readers take seriously. Really, anyone calling Johns shit is someone who probably shouldn't be reading superhero comics, cause I just don't think it's really the genre they're looking for.

Johns' DC isn't what I'm looking for, which is why I don't read it. Rest assured I can still read comicbooks without liking Geoff Johns.

[Gallahadd]

Fuck it.

Broke down and subscribed to the new Hellblazer, Aquaman and Green Lantern runs.

I'm approaching "Too many subscriptions"...

[Jotaux]

I'm having a hard time getting invested in the new green lanterns. I stopped reading DC religiously about midway through the New 52 and have no idea where they came from. I'm loving the Superman comic, made me realize how much I missed having this version of Supes. I think my favourite of the rebirth line is Detective Comics so far which is really surprising because I was never into Batwoman but shes awesome here.

[Immitis]

Fuck it.

Broke down and subscribed to the new Hellblazer, Aquaman and Green Lantern runs.

I'm approaching "Too many subscriptions"...

[Kelimbror]

just more open this time, in the old shows she had a thing for him already

Yeah, in arguably one of the crappiest movies in the most blah time of animated Batman: "Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman is a 2003 direct-to-video animated film based on the animated series The New Batman Adventures." It also paints their ages as closer and just makes babs a little flirty, crushing on Bruce Wayne.

She's not groping his dick and seduce-raping him more or less.

There's certainly a way to do a Barbara/Bruce relationship story, even though most precedent puts them firmly in a different light. This was not that way. In fact, it's made worse by the controversy around the story in the first place. It's almost like they thought the only way to empower her was to make her a female rapist/sexual deviant, which speaks volumes to the problem DC has with developing their women.

Oops, we put Babs in the fridge before...time to make her a nympho Lolita. That will sort it all out. Bad DC, bad.

[ati87]

Yeah, in arguably one of the crappiest movies in the most blah time of animated Batman: "Batman: Mystery of the Batwoman is a 2003 direct-to-video animated film based on the animated series The New Batman Adventures." It also paints their ages as closer and just makes babs a little flirty, crushing on Bruce Wayne.

She's not groping his dick and seduce-raping him more or less.

There's certainly a way to do a Barbara/Bruce relationship story, even though most precedent puts them firmly in a different light. This was not that way. In fact, it's made worse by the controversy around the story in the first place. It's almost like they thought the only way to empower her was to make her a female rapist/sexual deviant, which speaks volumes to the problem DC has with developing their women.

Oops, we put Babs in the fridge before...time to make her a nympho Lolita. That will sort it all out. Bad DC, bad.

BUt in Batman Beyond they made it clear that they shared more then just smokebombs, they actually had a thing.

It's just that with the latest movie is was just into your face and not a random selfie

[Stormcall]

BUt in Batman Beyond they made it clear that they shared more then just smokebombs, they actually had a thing.

It's just that with the latest movie is was just into your face and not a random selfie

Yeah, except, Batman Beyond isn't canon. In all the actual comics, including the one the movie is based on, it's made abundantly clear that Barbara looks at Bruce as FAMILY, not a fuck buddy nor a relationship partner. She had an on-again off-again relationship with Dick Grayson(and still clearly had feelings for them even when they weren't a couple), never Bruce.

Originally Posted by Mahourai
Killing Joke can pretty easily be read as an indictment of its own readership, partially for wanting "shocking" moments like Gordon being shown pictures of his own daughter after her sexual assault. It's ghoulish, and it's why Batman and Joker both "break character" at the end and share a laugh - which makes no sense for Batman as a character diegetically, but is sensible as a response to the trend in the comics industry (note that Killing Joke was being written as DC was planning to brutally murder Robin later that year).

Killing Joke also deliberately establishes a banal, stupid origin story for Joker, mocking the industry's trend (which continues to present day) of just redoing origin stories to "get it right" at the expense of doing anything new.

The fact that it won the Eisner because people thought Joker sexually assaulting Barbara Gordon was mature, deep storytelling is a pretty fucking hilarious joke itself.

Couple corrections. First, DC wasn't actually planning to murder Robin, they considered the possibility, then they had a phone poll to let the fans decide if he would live or die, with Denny O'Neil actually expecting fans to vote for him to live. Voting was close, but the "die" side won, so that's the story they went with. Second, Killing Joke does NOT establish an origin story for Joker. It features Joker, an unreliable, untrustworthy character to begin with, telling a story about his origin, which he himself admits in the book, is only one possible origin story("Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another ... If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"). It was never meant to be taken as his actual, God's truth origin. And finally, the book won an Eisner not for it's shitty treatment of Babs(Moore himself later expressed regret about that), but cause of it's psychological comparison between Joker and Bats. Now, rather that psychological examination actually warrants the Eisner is up for debate, but the Eisner was not awarded because the book featured Barbara being assaulted.

[Jotaux]

Yeah, except, Batman Beyond isn't canon.

Batman Beyond is completely cannon to the DCAU which is what the discussion is about. You could change over to talking about the comics but then you would have had no need to quote the person you quoted.

[Immitis]

most of batman beyond is canon for the comics actually. tim drake is currentlly in the future acting as neo batman and terry who was thought dead is rewire

[Jotaux]

most of batman beyond is canon for the comics actually. tim drake is currentlly in the future acting as neo batman and terry who was thought dead is rewire

It's cannon in the sense that BTAS is cannon to the main reality Batman comics, meaning not at all.

[Stormcall]

Batman Beyond is completely cannon to the DCAU which is what the discussion is about. You could change over to talking about the comics but then you would have had no need to quote the person you quoted.

Except for the minor fact that Killing Joke isn't part of the DCAU. The DCAU ended with Justice League Unlimited, everything since then has been stand alone animated movies. Killing Joke was supposed to be a stand alone animated movie, based on the Killing Joke comic, in which, Barbara and Bruce were in no way, even CLOSE to being lovers.

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most of batman beyond is canon for the comics actually. tim drake is currentlly in the future acting as neo batman and terry who was thought dead is rewire

Uhh no, in the comics that weren't based on the animated series(cause the animated series universe is not part of the main continuity), Tim Drake is and has been Red Robin for quite some time. He is currently NOT in the future, he is currently training with Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, and Clayface under Batman and Batwoman in Detective Comics.

[Jotaux]

Except for the minor fact that Killing Joke isn't part of the DCAU. The DCAU ended with Justice League Unlimited, everything since then has been stand alone animated movies. Killing Joke was supposed to be a stand alone animated movie, based on the Killing Joke comic, in which, Barbara and Bruce were in no way, even CLOSE to being lovers.

Right, and we were talking about the DCAU and alluding to its influence on The Killing Joke animated feature. I really don't see how that is so hard to grasp.

[Mahourai]

Couple corrections. First, DC wasn't actually planning to murder Robin, they considered the possibility, then they had a phone poll to let the fans decide if he would live or die, with Denny O'Neil actually expecting fans to vote for him to live.

The phone poll was a marketing stunt. Jim Starlin had been chomping at the bit to kill Robin for years.

Second, Killing Joke does NOT establish an origin story for Joker.

Within the context of the story, the origin story does not come off as anything other than boring melodrama.

[Immitis]

Except for the minor fact that Killing Joke isn't part of the DCAU. The DCAU ended with Justice League Unlimited, everything since then has been stand alone animated movies. Killing Joke was supposed to be a stand alone animated movie, based on the Killing Joke comic, in which, Barbara and Bruce were in no way, even CLOSE to being lovers.

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Uhh no, in the comics that weren't based on the animated series(cause the animated series universe is not part of the main continuity), Tim Drake is and has been Red Robin for quite some time. He is currently NOT in the future, he is currently training with Stephanie Brown, Cassandra Cain, and Clayface under Batman and Batwoman in Detective Comics.

actually it is part of the main universe

"DC Comics announced that another ongoing Batman Beyond series will be released in June 2015. It will take place in the future of its current stories' history.[28] Following the conclusion of The New 52: Futures End, Tim Drake will be the titular character instead of Terry McGinnis, who settles in the latter's time period and help raising McGinnis's brother Matt in his absence. The first issue is written by Dan Jurgens with art by Bernard Chang.[29]"

ever since futures end batman beyond is canonically the future of the dc universe. while some things have changed around, for the most part, most of what happened in the animated series happened barring anything that would retcon the main continuity like joker returns and babs fucking bats

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although im not sure whether or not its for the rebirth timeline as well. since futures end started with new 52.

i know the comic is still ongoing so i dont know if thats tim drake from the new 52 or timey wimey shenanigans and its the rebirth tim drake. but it is canon.

[Kelimbror]

DC, imo, is killing it on the comics side of things. Marvel right now feels thin. Lots of awesome stories but its all over the place, while DC is keeping things more cohesive.

This is a silly criticism that makes me think you don't read enough Marvel books, but anyways... I need to probably add Hellblazer. I only have the main Bats and Babs books, but a few others look good. WW is probably in good hands now, so that should be good, but I need to keep my list slim.

[Stormcall]

i know the comic is still ongoing so i dont know if thats tim drake from the new 52 or timey wimey shenanigans and its the rebirth tim drake. but it is canon.

Well, as of last week, Tim Drake is still operating in present day Gotham.

[Jotaux]

Well, as of last week, Tim Drake is still operating in present day Gotham.

The thing about time travel is he can disappear for a second in the present, spend a year in the future and return to point he left.