Migration is 'poison' for Europe, says Hungary PM

[May90]

I don't think that is true, we have few immigrants here compared to many other countries but we are well off economically and so does japan

Few =/= none. Plus, the whole political and economical model Korea has right now was basically built in cooperation with American advisers residing in SK after the war. Same with Japan: as much as people like to point on it as an example of a successful country with little immigration, its success is exactly due to strong foreign assistance, and now they are starting to take in more and more immigrants, as their system stagnates in isolation.

[callipygoustp]

This is the problem you have.

No, the problem I have, the problem Europe has, is that its being forced on them. Great that you have compassion. Don't expect everyone, especially those who are negatively impacted, to have the same level of compassion. How about the some compassion for the negatively impacted?

[May90]

No, the problem I have, the problem Europe has, is that its being forced on them. Great that you have compassion. Don't expect everyone, especially those who are negatively impacted, to have the same level of compassion. How about the some compassion for the negatively impacted?

Those European countries that don't want it being "forced" on them shouldn't have entered EU and signed all the agreements that come with it. It's funny how all these countries entered EU to get its benefits, but when it comes to responsibilities, they suddenly start complaining about being "forced" to do things.

[Deleted]

Immediately you're upset that I threw a common insult towards ...let's say conservative posters out there, yet you did not mention that in the same sentence used a derogatory term for liberal posters. Doesn't that suggest that you're a little blind to people that have different views than your own? Btw, why is being critical to argumentation in here seen as sitting on a high horse? Is it better just to spew hate based on nothing or anecdotal evidence?



Well, that kinda is racist, and even though it's not particularly about skin color, it's certainly prejudice against a whole population of people that might be as diverse as the one you're part of. People aren't silent about things they don't like about cultural things that don't mix with our own. Nobody says that female circumcision is awesome, everyone hates it. But only bigots would tell every immigrant to get the fuck out of the country based on a few incidents.



Maybe it's different from where you are form, but here origin/race is definitely part of the description of perpetrators, like "north african", "white skin", "eastern asia" etc. Btw, media doesn't protect anyone. It thrives on conflicts, because nobody wants to read about "statistics show that terrorist attacks have declined every decade" when they can read about "Muslim blows up kindergarten".



And I think most do, but you can't demand that a hundred thousand people should act like they've been living in a western culture their entire lives, and that there can't be any bad seeds among them. We don't demand that from ourselves either. We should not look at immigrants as guests, especially if they are born here or lived here most of their lives. They are our fellow countrymen, and we should not set different standards for them than our own. They don't have to feel grateful for everything in their lives, just because they or their parents managed to make a life for themselves in our country.

1. That is because I've seen and heard how people who have even more moderate views than myself get labeled as racist straight off the bat, you can't leave that crazy wacko zone of "omg love these people and different cultures, our culture sucks if we don't welcome them with open arms". They are self-destructive bunch who do not consider the consequences. We have some celebs and athletes who are refugees/immigrants from years ago or are children of the said refugees, even they think how things are going is completely stupid and criticize the way we take so many people and neglect the native populace as result.

Hell they've been cutting money from people living on pensions and war veterans just to get more money to spend on these refugees, it is a big no no. Those people have pulled their weight and now deserve to live in peace and with as little stress as possible.

2. It isn't, when I go to other countries for extended periods of time, which I've done quite a few times as I mostly date foreign women. I don't go there and expect things to go how I am used to them working. I research and look into how things work and ask if I don't know before I act. The problem wouldn't be so big if they hadn't taken mostly men in their 20s, if they had focused on families it would've been much better but no.

We took mostly young men stuffed them into already small towns with very small populations and then watched as on weekly basis there was reports of men from these refugee centers harassing the women of the area. Many of them do not have same level of respect to the women of our culture. And when reactions from people in power are along the lines of "You have to understand that they do not mean anything bad with it. They need to be taught". Really taught not to rape women or to feel them up when they've done nothing to indicate that you are allowed to do so.

Wherever these centers have been placed rate or crime especially sexual crime has increased. Our police released statistics recently which prove it as well.

3. It used to be the way, but now they've left it out due to fear of racism. So they rather have a criminal go free because people don't know to look out for right kind of person, but when it is a native they will release everything. These bastards will have their names and images posted all over the web and news, hell sometimes even their internet browsing habbits are brought up. Here part of the media is largely in the government's pocket part of it is even funded by tax payers' money.

4. I don't think it is the case with young males. If it was families and older couples, I'd agree but these men are often quite rebellious and easily manipulated by the extremists. They are guests for as long as they refuse to adjust to the prominent culture and it's ways. There are many who have adjusted while still being at least somewhat proud of their roots, I've met them and know quite a few, they are great people. It is not the color of their skin or anything of the sort that I care for. It is simply that our culture and our ways have worked great for us for many years.

My country isn't one of the safest and best places to live on the planet for no reason, it is something that the cultures from Middle-Eastern regions clearly can not boast with. There's very little from those cultures that when integrated with our own would benefit us.

We are fair and just people overall and we were among the first to allow our women to vote and be all in all equal with men. It is a great place to live and be, which is how I want it to stay for my children and grandchildren. But when suddenly after the mass waves of immigrants my female family members have to start being afraid of walking on the streets at night and get harassed by the newcomers, there's clearly a problem there. If government will not take necessary action, people will eventually take care of them with violence.

We want our streets to be safe as they used to be no matter the time of day and we want -everyone- living in this country to feel safe.

[Deleted]

Every country in Europe should haf someone like V.Orban!

[Deleted]

Those European countries that don't want it being "forced" on them shouldn't have entered EU and signed all the agreements that come with it. It's funny how all these countries entered EU to get its benefits*1, but when it comes to responsibilities, they suddenly start complaining about being "forced" to do things*2.

*1
a) These benefits are tied to often very financially hurtful demands. Maybe you should inform yourselves about these, before you parrot something, which is clearly beyond you.
If by benefit you mean, that the national debt is going through the roof since entering the EU, then your definition of benefit may differ from mine.
b) These benefits are mostly targeted to build up the infrastructure to meet the EU standards. On the other hand, newly EU member nations are obligated to meet EU standards, which are in fact extremely economically harmful.

*2
Maybe I'm a little bit off but I clearly doubt, that in the contracts the Eastern European nation leaders signed exists a paragraph, which would cover this situation. Ergo they don't have any responsibilities in this regard.

[callipygoustp]

Context is also important in the use of the word hate.

To hate something is to wish its destruction, its the word that according to definition is the strongest desire against something.


Hatred, is what The nazis displayed towards the jews, the crusaders towards the middle east etc...

The word is used way to commonly and without respect these days.

Regardless, thinking someone who is basically hitler extra diet coke as having good ideas, good job there mmo-c, these forums are becoming even more of a cesspool by the day.

Wow, nice spin. Not wanting immigration to negatively affect your life is now the same as being a Nazi. Your comments are an insult to the people that survived the atrocities of the Nazi regime. Nothing in recent history comes close to that.

[May90]

*1
a) These benefits are tied to often very financially hurtful demands. Maybe you should inform yourselves about these, before you parrot something, which is clearly beyond you.
If by benefit you mean, that the national debt is going through the roof since entering the EU, then your definition of benefit may differ from mine.
b) These benefits are mostly targeted to build up the infrastructure to meet the EU standards. On the other hand, newly EU member nations are obligated to meet EU standards, which are in fact extremely economically harmful.

*2
Maybe I'm a little bit off but I clearly doubt, that in the contracts the Eastern European nation leaders signed exists a paragraph, which would cover this situation. Ergo they don't have any responsibilities in this regard.

Financial benefits include a more direct and free of any taxes and obstructions trade, as well as other bureaucratic expenses nullified.

Not the point though. The point is, they entered EU voluntarily, no one forced them to do it. Now that they are in EU, they either have to leave, or to follow the rules they've signed. If they are required to do something they don't have to according to EU rules, they should appeal to the rules, and no one will force them to do anything. They don't, because, apparently, the treaties require them to comply in this case. So, now that it is their turn to hold their part of the bargain, they suddenly say, "Hey, don't push us!".

This isn't how it works, my friends.

[stomination]

No, they wouldn't. In the modern world, no migrants = self-isolation and slow death. The most economically successful countries tend to be the ones with the highest percentage of immigrants in them. Even ultra-conservative countries like China take in immigrants and expats. And Hungary itself takes a bit too, regardless of what Orban is preaching.

They take immigrants just not a mass amount of them at once.

[Deleted]

Not the point though. The point is, they entered EU voluntarily, no one forced them to do it. Now that they are in EU, they either have to leave, or to follow the rules they've signed.

Again, point me please to the paragraph in the contract, where this "refugee" distribution quota is even remotely covered.

[Deleted]

Wheres the LIKE Button

Should be on the voting ballot, but sadly it isn't

[Deleted]

There are many things wrong and right with what he says. Not everything is as black a white.

My 2 cents. REAL refugee's ( country's where you will get stoned for being gay, where you are 13 year old women being married of/raped by older men etc) are welcome if you ask me. But there are also ALLOT of people coming from country's where shit like that does not happen. They should not even be allowed in the EU. It is hard. But there is only this much room/money. I rather give it to someone that has it really bad.
And a little side not. There have been refugee's who attacked other refugee's because of religion/sexual preference/being a women. Those fuckers need 2 be kicked out of the EU at this moment.

This is exactly what I'm saying too.

What I find a problem is that when these 'refugees' (As noted in the article) trek through a lot of SAFE eastern countries simply to reach the more welfaring western countries. If you're a real refugee, you just want to be in a safe place. That to me seems dodgy.

[callipygoustp]

Those European countries that don't want it being "forced" on them shouldn't have entered EU and signed all the agreements that come with it. It's funny how all these countries entered EU to get its benefits, but when it comes to responsibilities, they suddenly start complaining about being "forced" to do things.

I haven't read the contract they all signed. Was there really a forseeable expectation that they would have to suffer forced immigration on such a massive scale? How does one plan for such a huge humanitarian crisis? I don't think this situation was forseeable. I highly doubt the people of Europe expected that part of joining the EU would require that they give up their own rights, their own human rights, in sacrifice for rights of non-Europeans. I expect members of the EU joined to benefit Europe and its member states not benefit the Middle East and Africa.

[callipygoustp]

There are many things wrong and right with what he says. Not everything is as black a white.

Sadly too few people are able to grasp this simple concept. As such, its a rarity to have an intellectual conversation (at least on this forum) about such matters.

[Deleted]

So they only expected to benefit from our welfare money?
Hmm, at least the average refugee wants to work for his money.

Mate, I think you got the person wrong. It's the eastern european, newly EU citizen, that's working in Holland and not the 2rd or heck even 3rd generation somali "refugee". They are on welfare, while a romanian is working.

According to a summary published by the NRC online news service in the Netherlands, this official government report found that just 35 percent of “long-term refugees” who invaded Holland during the last five years of the 1990s actually have a job where they work more than thirty hours a week. Even this number is comprised mostly of “ex-Yugoslavs,” the report said.

Source

[callipygoustp]

So they only expected to benefit from our welfare money?
Hmm, at least the average refugee wants to work for his money.

These countries can always leave.
That way they don't have the burden of being in the EU.
On the other hand it will take probably five years until they become Russia's bitch again.

Jumping to a few conclusions there.

Europeans should be for Europe first. That's all I am saying. I would say the same thing for the states of the USA : USA states should be for the USA first.

I am curious :
Who is they?
Is the employment rate of immigrants higher than that of the residents of the countries they reside in?

[callipygoustp]

There's a difference though.
US citizens generally care about all the states, the USA is one country.
Before the current refugee-problem people used the same language to people from Eastern Europe.
We don't see the EU as one country.

And they are the countries.
We pump billions in them.
But the moment we need their help, they start with this shit.

Ah, so your issue is with the Eastern European countries. That makes a couple things you said a bit clearer to me. Fair enough.

[Deleted]

And they are the countries.
We pump billions in them.
But the moment we need their help, they start with this shit.

You pump billions to create a market so you can sell your products/services. It's not of humanitarian aid. Please stop comparing eastern european, EU citizens, to non-EU citizens or refugees. They are not the same!

[klogaroth]

It's funny y'know. I don't recall anywhere near as much of this sort of thing going on when far greater numbers of refugees were fleeing during the Yugoslav wars.
FAR greater numbers.

As for this horseshit:

Hungary's right-wing Prime Minister Viktor Orban on Tuesday described the arrival of asylum seekers in Europe as "a poison", saying his country did not want or need "a single migrant".

"Hungary does not need a single migrant for the economy to work, or the population to sustain itself, or for the country to have a future,"

Asylum seekers, ones with a genuine right to political asylum, are not there to make your economy work. They are fleeing persecution and death. If they don't have the right to asylum, you don't have to take them. He's speaking utter, complete and total bollocks.

[Deleted]

Strange, they seemed to like immigration,when they all started wandering over here.