Unholy DK Alpha Testers, Please Read! (Unholy Legion Discussion)

[Deleted]

They will nerf epidemic probably, will it be a problem? ( strikes up to 6 nearby targets - each detonation, and up to 20 targets)

Well its not very often that there's 20+ targets to hit.
Epidemic needed nerfing tbf. Glad its with max detonation targets rather than a dmg nerf

[Deleted]

It was bound to happen. I guess doing ~1,4m DPS on Iskar trash was probably a bit too much.

[Baddok21]

I already detailed its uncapped scaling factor in the past. the highest exponential growth curve of any AoE they have designed was abit dumb.

[Deleted]

In the grand scheme it doesn't matter. 20 targets up to 6 aoe is still very good. It's just capped to prevent retarded situations where no cap means it's ridiculously powerful.

[Maxweii]

It's designed just like fire nova used to be. It's nothing new, that didn't get a target cap and Epidemic likely won't either.

[witchking7]

It was bound to happen. I guess doing ~1,4m DPS on Iskar trash was probably a bit too much.

Who cares about prepatch numbers? if they nerf us сonsidering the numbers on the live, then 110 will become we maybe have trubles, couse how we compare on aoe to ridiculous fire mage?

[Coffeh]

It's designed just like fire nova used to be. It's nothing new, that didn't get a target cap and Epidemic likely won't either.

I'm confused then, because doesn't this change put a cap on it? 20 and 6?

[Maxweii]

I'm confused then, because doesn't this change put a cap on it? 20 and 6?

Didn't see that it was an actual change, thought they were talking in hypotheticals. Could see it reduced or changed from that though, as it seems to harsh a nerf.

[Exotath]

Knew it was coming. It was very strong....nerf doesn't seem that bad but won't know until I get home.

I still would like to see more damage shifted to FW's.

[Rothulean1]

It will be noticeable in the rare instances where there are more than 6 mobs. I think the 6 target cap should be a bit higher (8-9), but overall not an awful nerf. If they keep 6 targets, then maybe buff the secondary portion of the ability to 30-33%. 27.5% AP with a limit of 6 targets feels a bit weak. Either way, Im sure we will have more tuning coming.

If were suddenly weaker on 7+ target aoe, I think thats a weakness we can live with.

[Emek]

Does anyone have a link to the sims? Someone made a wide sweeping general comment that "EVERYONE has seen the sims" in another thread, and I wasn't actively looking for them since it's still beta, but I guess they are out now?

[nephzor]

Does anyone have a link to the sims? Someone made a wide sweeping general comment that "EVERYONE has seen the sims" in another thread, and I wasn't actively looking for them since it's still beta, but I guess they are out now?

He was talking about the trinket simulations for pre patch

[Nitwit]

It's designed just like fire nova used to be. It's nothing new, that didn't get a target cap and Epidemic likely won't either.

They definitely capped Fire Nova.

Hotfix (2014-10-30): "Now has a maximum of 7 novas that can be triggered if more than 7 targets are affected by [Flame Shock]."
Hotfix (2015-01-12): "Fire Nova now causes up to 6 novas (down from 7)."

[Acidbaron]

It will be noticeable in the rare instances where there are more than 6 mobs. I think the 6 target cap should be a bit higher (8-9), but overall not an awful nerf. If they keep 6 targets, then maybe buff the secondary portion of the ability to 30-33%. 27.5% AP with a limit of 6 targets feels a bit weak. Either way, Im sure we will have more tuning coming.

If were suddenly weaker on 7+ target aoe, I think thats a weakness we can live with.

Unless i read it wrong isn't it 20 targets max and from those 20 targets it can reach 6 targets each with the lower value? So that means the additional shadow damage still hits 6 targets per target infested with VP, so in a stack of 20 that means...
(
20*6 explosions. So using current values roughly at mythic level. 17K*20 and (20*6)*3K.

That doesn't seem to bad from my perspective, if i'm seeing this wrong anyone is free to correct me.

[nephzor]

Unless i read it wrong isn't it 20 targets max and from those 20 targets it can reach 6 targets each with the lower value? So that means the additional shadow damage still hits 6 targets per target infested with VP, so in a stack of 20 that means...
(
20*6 explosions. So using current values roughly at mythic level. 17K*20 and (20*6)*3K.

That doesn't seem to bad from my perspective, if i'm seeing this wrong anyone is free to correct me.

That's how i understand it too, the initial hit is capped at 20 and the detonation from each target hit by the initial hit is capped at 6

[Maxweii]

They definitely capped Fire Nova.

Hotfix (2014-10-30): "Now has a maximum of 7 novas that can be triggered if more than 7 targets are affected by [Flame Shock]."
Hotfix (2015-01-12): "Fire Nova now causes up to 6 novas (down from 7)."

Yeah, I did say that it was how fire nova used to be, as before it had no cap. It went a long long time being in the game before a cap was put on that, compared to Epidemic being new

[Deleted]

It's not really a nerf since there'll rarely be 20+ targets if everything on a fight goes as intended.
Might be an influence when content turns into farm and people want to cheese for ranks, but who really cares?

[Maxweii]

It's a nerf anytime there are 6+ targets, not 20. It's fairly likely you will have 6+ at some point, but not likely 20.

[Acidbaron]

It's a nerf anytime there are 6+ targets, not 20. It's fairly likely you will have 6+ at some point, but not likely 20.

So far i can see you are reading it wrong.

Epidemic now strikes a up to 20 nearby targets, and each AoE detonation strikes up to 6 nearby targets. (Work in progress.) Key word you are overlooking and thinking it only hits 6 is "each".

"Causes each of your Virulent Plagues within 100 yds to flare up, dealing (150% of Attack power) Shadow damage to the infected enemy, and an additional (27.5% of Attack power) Shadow damage to all other enemies near them."

Strike refers to the first half the 150% attack power. Explosion to the 27.5%.

I'm fairly certain tests will show this if i had a place to easily solo this this where mobs would be alive still after the initial strike, you could easily proof this by looking at a greater then 6 explosions, the explosions would be around 3K in damage when looking at mythic gear levels.

- - - Updated - - -

That's how i understand it too, the initial hit is capped at 20 and the detonation from each target hit by the initial hit is capped at 6

Well i can't see how it is read any other way since the first initial strike is not an AoE effect but based off if the target is infected with VP. The explosion clearly refers to the lower shadow damage as that is actually an AoE effect based of targets being in proximity of each other.

[Maxweii]

Yes I am aware of how it works with that wording and wasn't reading it incorrectly.

So for example, on a grouping of 20 targets. Before it would work out like this

20(initial hit)+ (19x20 [secondary hit]) = total damage - you take one out because the secondary hit does not hit the target it detonates from, so they will always get hit by 1 less than the total target number
3,000% + 10,450% = 13,450% - 400 instances of damage

Now it goes

20(initial hit)+ (19x6 [secondary hit]) = total damage
3,000% + 3,135% = 6,135% - 134 instances of damage


At 10 targets
10+(9x10)
1,500% + 2,475% = 3,975%

10+(9x6)
1,500% + 1,485% = 2,985%

So that means, anywhere between 7-20 targets this has been a massive nerf, 6 and under targets it stays the same, and 20+ targets it just more or less brings it so that it's not exponential scaling of sillyness. At it's max target range of 20, this is a >50% nerf. At 10 it's a roughly 25% nerf. It's a lot more than it seems. It brings the ability to a point where it's not ridiculous, but this was a huge nerf to it since it's been uncapped this whole time.