How hard is to snap a man's neck from behind?

[Yvaelle]

All this secret "inner mysticism" is just bullshit, they would have you believe in magic while you flick physics out the window with your pinky. So many claim to have learned such secrets but always clam up when asked to demonstrate.

The secret inner mysticism shit is definitely bullshit, but some (most?) internal/soft martial arts do contain stuff like what we're talking about. For example, Tai Chi does contain a variety of nerve/joint manipulation moves - the problem is all the flowery shit they build around the explanation of why it works: when really it's just that they're striking someone in a nerve cluster.

The strikes themselves often actually work, but not because you're drawing out their chi energy or something - it's because you pulled out all their chi energy by punching them in the throat.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I try to be diplomatic to the TMA guys as much as I can, but I've really never put any stock in the fighting-magic stuff. Boxers, Thai Boxers, Judo Players, etc. Everything we do is open to the public. Everything we do gets tested all the time, and what we do is measurable.

I've been trying to put down my chi roots into a solid foundation in mother earth and become the essence of immovable when my wife tells me I have to go mow the lawn. That shit just doesn't work.

[McFuu]

Behind the guy's head isn't the best idea. People grab your hand and pull it off, or fuck around with your fingers, if it's not a sanctioned match, or if they're in a position where the ref can't see (I would do that).

I think you are thinking of other types of chokes and holds. In this style choke, they really can't reach your hand it's closer to the bump on the back of the head, almost on the neck.

Examples of where not to place your hand (granted these are air chokes, same mechanics apply, arm positioning across the neck changes.)



This is an example of better positioning. It's difficult to get the hand where it needs to be on these chokes with gloves on.


When I apply this choke I turn my hand so its flat on the head, but curl my fingers in, basically making a hammer fist.

This is total hind-sight and not speaking to the technical skill of these fighters. Obviously I can easily see how to escape, I'm not being choked. As Mike Tyson said, "Everyone has a plan until they get hit."

Pic 1, easy way to escape would be to place the left arm on the chokers left arm, and start to stand up. The chokers left arm would have broken grip easily.

Pic 2, place left hand on opponents choking arm, lean head back push up, twist and stand up or take guard position.

Pic 3, not happening, you can escape by tapping out.

[frogger237]

Take out someones legs so they fall and while they are falling take your left hand and place it on their jaw. Place your right hand on the top back left side of their head and twist as hard as you can.

[Deleted]

The secret inner mysticism shit is definitely bullshit, but some (most?) internal/soft martial arts do contain stuff like what we're talking about. For example, Tai Chi does contain a variety of nerve/joint manipulation moves - the problem is all the flowery shit they build around the explanation of why it works: when really it's just that they're striking someone in a nerve cluster.

The strikes themselves often actually work, but not because you're drawing out their chi energy or something - it's because you pulled out all their chi energy by punching them in the throat.

Strikes that are more efficient if trained on a live, resisting opponent. If a system does not allow at least semi contact full resistance sparring then you have no way of knowing if it will work, forms/katas only get you so far.

[Polyxo]

I think you are thinking of other types of chokes and holds. In this style choke, they really can't reach your hand it's closer to the bump on the back of the head, almost on the neck.

Examples of where not to place your hand (granted these are air chokes, same mechanics apply, arm positioning across the neck changes.)



This is an example of better positioning. It's difficult to get the hand where it needs to be on these chokes with gloves on.


When I apply this choke I turn my hand so its flat on the head, but curl my fingers in, basically making a hammer fist.

I know exactly what you mean and its easy to basically to get a hand in underneath. Basically, you slide a hand up, like you're swooshing back your hair on the side, and open your chest up. Even if you can't peel the hand entirely out of place, you still loosen the choke significantly. If you do it while turning your hand, you can pretty easily get flow back on one side of your head.

[Yvaelle]

Strikes that are more efficient if trained on a live, resisting opponent. If a system does not allow at least semi contact full resistance sparring then you have no way of knowing if it will work, forms/katas only get you so far.

Yep - completely agree - only pointing out that it's not so much the moves that are bullshit (they had plenty of influence from actual martial arts), but the philosophy around it. Throat punching is not a magical power, but it is effective

Modern styles that take cheap shots but cut all the nonsense are obviously a way better way to learn them: styles employed by military and law enforcement.

[minteK917]

Its the same thing as that stupid karate chop putting people to sleep. Yeah..... no. If you hit them hard enough to sleep, it means they passed out, you might actually have given them Permanent brain damage. If you did not give them brain damage, then they passed out for like a few seconds and your trick is then useless because that guard wakes up instantly and know he has been attacked. Third option is, it doesent fucking work, you just hit somebody and alerted him of your presence.

[McFuu]

I know exactly what you mean and its easy to basically to get a hand in underneath. Basically, you slide a hand up, like you're swooshing back your hair on the side, and open your chest up. Even if you can't peel the hand entirely out of place, you still loosen the choke significantly. If you do it while turning your hand, you can pretty easily get flow back on one side of your head.

I just remembered I'm preaching to the choir with you. You have a pro record, I've been in 2 am fights and I'm 1/1 in those. You should be telling me this stuff lol.

[Polyxo]

I just remembered I'm preaching to the choir with you. You have a pro record, I've been in 2 am fights and I'm 1/1 in those. You should be telling me this stuff lol.

Well, it sounds like you're trying to like, do a collar choke (without a collar), in the position of a RNC. You can sort of pull off a weak version fo that by anchoring on the other person's trap. Then your off hand goes under the other person's arm, pulls that arm out, and up, and then your forearm will go behind the head to push into it. However, I don't think I'd ever be able to really pull it off in serious competition, MMA or no-gi.

With an RNC, there's really just nothing that beats hand on your own head. It's tighter, it's safer from their hand. It also lets you use your own head to push them into a choke. One of the things I notice people never enough of is use their heads as appendages. Basically, any time I'm clinched up and I'm not in some position where I can't do so, I'm trying to bulgarian headlock. You should bulgarian headlock all the time, because it's fucking annoying, and it really messes with people's ability to push back against you.

[Deleted]

Behind the guy's head isn't the best idea. People grab your hand and pull it off, or fuck around with your fingers, if it's not a sanctioned match, or if they're in a position where the ref can't see (I would do that).

I was once in a perfect position with a sparring partner and friend. Left arm up through the crook of his elbow and his arm up his back into a perfect T choke. When we played "back to back," start sparring at that club we always went for pain compliance taps or giving up "yeah I can't move" taps. Durrrrty little fucker managed to find my nipple with his pinky and thumb! It was purple for a week. Over the years I've done horrific sneaky shit to him too so it was kind of fair.

If you can freely get to hand rather than trying to get to manipulating a finger or a thumb and working it out sometimes dragging a knuckle, usually the thumb, across the back of their hand across the tendons til you can find a good spot to dig in is enough ouch to make someone let go. Most people will splay their finger momentarily as you press down allowing you to effect small joint manipulations. In regulated forms it's something you can pass off on the way to going over the top of the hand/forearm. Probably isn't that doable in clown gloves or banana hands. You probably already know all this though.

[Polyxo]

I was once in a perfect position with a sparring partner and friend. Left arm up through the crook of his elbow and his arm up his back into a perfect T choke. When we played "back to back," start sparring at that club we always went for pain compliance taps or giving up "yeah I can't move" taps. Durrrrty little fucker managed to find my nipple with his pinky and thumb! It was purple for a week. Over the years I've done horrific sneaky shit to him too so it was kind of fair.

If you can freely get to hand rather than trying to get to manipulating a finger or a thumb and working it out sometimes dragging a knuckle, usually the thumb, across the back of their hand across the tendons til you can find a good spot to dig in is enough ouch to make someone let go. Most people will splay their finger momentarily as you press down allowing you to effect small joint manipulations. In regulated forms it's something you can pass off on the way to going over the top of the hand/forearm. Probably isn't that doable in clown gloves or banana hands. You probably already know all this though.

You're generally not so much trying to grab at their fingers and pull them up over your head. What you're trying to do is get your arm inside the second arm, and pry outwards, and turn your head.

[Deleted]

I was once in a perfect position with a sparring partner and friend. Left arm up through the crook of his elbow and his arm up his back into a perfect T choke. When we played "back to back," start sparring at that club we always went for pain compliance taps or giving up "yeah I can't move" taps. Durrrrty little fucker managed to find my nipple with his pinky and thumb! It was purple for a week. Over the years I've done horrific sneaky shit to him too so it was kind of fair.

If you can freely get to hand rather than trying to get to manipulating a finger or a thumb and working it out sometimes dragging a knuckle, usually the thumb, across the back of their hand across the tendons til you can find a good spot to dig in is enough ouch to make someone let go. Most people will splay their finger momentarily as you press down allowing you to effect small joint manipulations. In regulated forms it's something you can pass off on the way to going over the top of the hand/forearm. Probably isn't that doable in clown gloves or banana hands. You probably already know all this though.

Reminds me of the time someone stuck his finger up my nose and went digging for gold, freaked me out so much I let him go.

[Deleted]

Reminds me of the time someone stuck his finger up my nose and went digging for gold, freaked me out so much I let him go.

two fingers inside lips, one from each hand and pulling outwards result in immediate compliance also

[Polyxo]

Reminds me of the time someone stuck his finger up my nose and went digging for gold, freaked me out so much I let him go.

Wet willies on after practice rolls

[McFuu]

I was once in a perfect position with a sparring partner and friend. Left arm up through the crook of his elbow and his arm up his back into a perfect T choke. When we played "back to back," start sparring at that club we always went for pain compliance taps or giving up "yeah I can't move" taps. Durrrrty little fucker managed to find my nipple with his pinky and thumb! It was purple for a week. Over the years I've done horrific sneaky shit to him too so it was kind of fair.

If you can freely get to hand rather than trying to get to manipulating a finger or a thumb and working it out sometimes dragging a knuckle, usually the thumb, across the back of their hand across the tendons til you can find a good spot to dig in is enough ouch to make someone let go. Most people will splay their finger momentarily as you press down allowing you to effect small joint manipulations. In regulated forms it's something you can pass off on the way to going over the top of the hand/forearm. Probably isn't that doable in clown gloves or banana hands. You probably already know all this though.

Back to back is my favorite sparring game. Although I love going for ridiculous flying leg chokes or arm bars. I've also immediately rolled backwards at the start while they were turning around and taken rear chokes before. Just ridiculous shit that you are supposed to do sparring.

[unbound]

I see it all the time in the movies but I like to think my neck isn't a twig.

https://www.quora.com/Murder-How-har...ing-their-neck

[Deleted]

two fingers inside lips, one from each hand and pulling outwards result in immediate compliance also

We call that the wide mouthed frog, been a victim of it a few times but nothing compares to someone trying to finger your brain.

[Faerillis]

It's virtually impossible for a human being to snap another human being's neck as adults. If our necks were that easy to break, we'd all die the moment we turned our heads.

While it is definitely difficult, virtually impossible is an overstatement. The Canadian Military Corp developed a technique to do exactly that with reasonable reliability more than 30 years ago. Is it anywhere near as simple as the stupid little headtwist? Gods no. But it is something doable.

[Wolfman31]

All this secret "inner mysticism" is just bullshit, they would have you believe in magic while you flick physics out the window with your pinky. So many claim to have learned such secrets but always clam up when asked to demonstrate.

I love how some people here are saying the inner forms of martial arts are mystical malarkey, as if your uneducated opinions could undermine the thousands of years of the scientific method being applied in Asian societies while Europeans were still living in their own filth. You obviously have no experience with or understanding of Chi. It's not magic. It's science. Just look at Bruce Lee knocking a dude flat on his ass from an inch away. It wasn't in a movie. It's the one-inch punch. Look it up. There's video footage. That is the perfect example of Fa Jin, the explosive martial power that is harnessed by aligning intent, breath, and the body in one fluid, singular motion. If you think that's magic, then Bruce Lee must be a F'N wizard from Hogwarts to you because he was a living example of the mastery of Fa Jin put into action. But like I said earlier, to obtain such a level of mastery is not very common at all, but that doesn't mean it's impossible or "only for the movies". It requires such a level of discipline to master that it is unheard of in today's age of short attention spans and instant gratification, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

And as I said in an earlier post, the real masters of this knowledge do not teach it to anybody and do not teach it for monetary gain. My Sifu never charged me a dime, but I cleaned his house, did his laundry, and maintained his garden Mr. Miagi style. And his 5'4" ass at 64 years old could flip me like a rag doll with three fingers if he wanted to touch me at all in his defense against my advances. Unless you've been on the mat with that level of a master, then you're just not going to understand. I'm no master but I earned my black sash in Shao Lin Long Fist, White Crane, Hung Ga, Taiji Quan, Shuai Jiao, and Chi Na. I am no master, but I am also no stranger to the complete spectrum of martial arts, from the hard external styles to the inner soft styles. If you don't acknowledge and study the inner soft styles, you will never be a complete martial artist. Any REAL martial artist knows this and won't argue this point. Of course, in the UFC the inner soft styles will never be on display because there is a philosophical and ethical approach that goes hand in hand with the inner soft styles that frowns on competition because it is ego driven instead of answering a higher calling of service to others. But just because you don't see a Tai Chi master conquering the world of MMA doesn't mean such masters don't exist or are incapable of such feats.