Are all tanks bad now?

[Harbour]

BDK are crazy as tanks. Their self-heal is crazy.

[Deleted]

I haven't found any glaring problems for Blood DKs on the beta, they have had some during the course of the alpha / beta but are currently in a solid spot. Death strike could be a little more powerful, but appart from that I have no real issues with how it works. Now since I can't comment on their performance in mythic raids I might be a bit off, but as long as you divert from the regular crit / mastery stacking to haste / crit you're still very much a solid tank option.

I haven't put as much thought into the others so instead of spouting arguments with nothing to base them on I'm not going to comment on them more than the fact that at least ignore pain for warriors feel solid.

Edit: On the topic on Blood DKs I'd say the playstyle is a little better now as instead of banking runes for well timed Death Strikes you're banking runic power instead, so the rotation feel more like an actual rotation than the reactive playstyle we saw in WoD. If it's better or worse in practise only time will tell, but my personal opinion is that it feels a bit better to play but you have less decisions to make on how to tackle various scenarios.

[caervek]

Kazzak was stomping the hell out of tanks the other night, I think Blizzard forgot to nerf him when they nerfed HFC ^^

[Trickname]

Maybe now, groups will start communicating when pulling with cc, and it won't be a giant faceroll-lolzergs-gimmieepics runs like before the patch..

Or they will aoe, die and "wtf retard tank?". I know what my money is on.

[Zka]

So, I come here to read the various forums and... it seems every tank isn't just off...but BADLY broken.

It just shows how many people like to whine. Never take anything seriously in this forum.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

OP - No.

There were problems in Alpha with the new tank designs, but those have mostly been fixed.

I am tanking on a DK, Bear, and Paladin and loving all three. Each plays differently, but each is fun in their own way. Great new visuals, meaningful talent choices, cool new abilities to play around with.

Yes, they are more dependent on a healer than they were in WoD, but that is probably a good thing. We had gotten into god-mode, where we didn't need a healer or even a party to complete instances. This led to arrogance on the part of tanks and carelessness on the part of dps (who assumed tanks could cover for anything).

We are still quite capable of doing our job as long as we're in a competent party. If anything, I'd say tanking is closer to how it was in WoLK and Cataclysm.

I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

[Mackeyser]

Well I wanna be clear that when I was asking if the community thought all tanks were bad, that included with Artifact weps at 110.

I fully expected things to be out of whack without the artifact, for some specs MUCH more than others.

What surprised me was reading Troxism write about the state of Blood DKs at 110, several commentators on the Pally forums have delved into the mechanical deficiencies the Prot toolset has now and how at 110 that threat is a real issue for Guardian Druids especially in AoE situations.

I actually think that there will be adjustments to all of the tanks because the ABSOLUTE LAST thing Blizz needs is yet another tank exodus.

Part of me wants to stick with my original main because he originally fought in BC, so there's symmetry. But I also like the toolkit of the DK and Guardian.

I have tanking gear for the Pally and DK. I may have to try them first and see how that goes.

[tristannarutofan]

i've actuallyed tanked on all of them. I think there might be a scaling balance issue as I did have trouble in a timewalk with a solid tank whos been my main the whole time. but a different time i tanked the healer was talking the whole time and i was lucky to get more than a hot after the fight was over.

Like people said things are balanced around having a healer for group content. I feel that the mechanics on all of them is pretty solid. I havent tried guardian or blood. However Warriors are almost exactly the same but their Absorb being their main form of mitigation.and shield block having a low amount of rage to use.

like paladins SEEM different but are motly the same. you are using CS and judgement, you are just doing it to lower the cooldown of your mitigation rather than to get holy power to use it. if you dont like the "you are stronger in your consecrate mechanic" you can opt out of that at lvl 15. I just wish there was a single reason to take the cool reinhardt shield barrior cus i love its visual

I actually like the monk changes now. I only have some guy whos like 650 so its awkward but i tested it out on the proving grounds. before i didnt have enough mastery to really give a damn about stagger but now i do. It is an interesting game to juggle your charges, do i use a charge to create more stagger? do i need to save this one to clear it? and i'm loving the blackout strike combination. basically alter your rotation to decide what small buff you want. And your flame breath doesnt consume your mitgation technics so you can aoe AND protect yourself.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Kazzak was stomping the hell out of tanks the other night, I think Blizzard forgot to nerf him when they nerfed HFC ^^

I tanked Kazz on three tanks this week. Only problem I had was the usual pranksters - one ret pally who thought it was funny to taunt Kazz so he'd face the group for his fire attack, another who ninja-pulled when we only had two healers, and one RL who invited us to a group on a PvP server where we each got ganked as soon as we zoned in (outnumbered 2-1). The fight itself has maybe been a bit tougher - I was soloing it before the patch - but certainly not unmanageable.

[Deleted]

They've made tanking simpler and still people suck at it, it's funny. The tanks who took time to learn what certain packs and mobs in an instance did are still shining but the ones who go "lololol chaarge aoe pull" die and make healers miserable. Most tanks are doing just fine. Only one who might have some problems currently are the BM Monks due to how they were designed in such weird way.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Well I wanna be clear that when I was asking if the community thought all tanks were bad, that included with Artifact weps at 110.

I fully expected things to be out of whack without the artifact, for some specs MUCH more than others.

What surprised me was reading Troxism write about the state of Blood DKs at 110, several commentators on the Pally forums have delved into the mechanical deficiencies the Prot toolset has now and how at 110 that threat is a real issue for Guardian Druids especially in AoE situations.

I actually think that there will be adjustments to all of the tanks because the ABSOLUTE LAST thing Blizz needs is yet another tank exodus.

Part of me wants to stick with my original main because he originally fought in BC, so there's symmetry. But I also like the toolkit of the DK and Guardian.

I have tanking gear for the Pally and DK. I may have to try them first and see how that goes.

Troxism wrote that about DKs in the Alpha build, not about how they are now on Live.

[Deleted]

I hated the self heal paladin "tanking" anyway, so I'm happy that they are back to more mitigation focused and depend on the healer now.

Prot Warriors have lost some buttons, but imo have gained far superior tools of absorption.

DKs got simpler, more straightforward, which is a bonus for me.

So in my book tanking is still good and fun. But I will say that. When playing healer, it's a lot more obvious, who is a good player and who is not!

[Kyranna]

- Paladins are the most boring tanks after the revamp, there is no thought to them, you can only Judgment and use SotR as much as possible, everything else is just dps. I wouldn't play a prot paladin under torture, because I'd fall asleep every single time.

- Warriors have to mantain a decent priority system, they can work around with talents and abilities to throw out very big Shield Slams and have to mantain IP as much as possible, definitely more fun than paladin, probably in a bad spot when out of rage against large packs, but Shockwave helps in those cases. They are still fun in a way.

- Blood DK is still a powerhouse, because Blood Boil is crazy damage and self healing is still very strong, but they got all of their cooldowns pruned, except Vampiric Blood, which frankly pisses me off: they lost Bone Shield (now goes up when using Marrowrend), Icebound Fortitude, Dark Pact, Army, Lichborne. That's some unholy pruning.

- Bear druid: it's fun, it's tough, it has a truckload of hp and armor, it has a lot of different skills, self healing is also decent and levelling as a bear is also extremely pleasant. It just generates very little threat, which I think must be a terrible bug. I had people taking agro from me by sneezing in the mob general direction, which was an impossibility pre patch. Aside from that, monitoring Iron Fur can get a bit tedious, considering you can even stack the buffs, but you don't need 100% uptime on it in any case.

- Demon Hunter: this is a bitch to comment, because it's imo a good tank and it's also quite fun, but I if you get scared by your life bar doing a jo-jo dance up and down, this is not a class for you. I played it only briefly, so I'm not the most expert to talk about it.

- Brewmaster: technically I love(d) the class, it's been my main since released and I played both Brewmaster and Mistweaver alternating them. The new version is stupidly strong, in dungeons Brewmasters are very tough, if you know how to juggle the brews, wow, just wow. The artifact completes the class perfectly, with the on-use skill giving 3 seconds of semi-invincibility and Obstinate Determination that grants enough orbs to stay alive forever. Then why I don't love it anymore? Once again, pruning. Blizzard took away Touch of Death, Dizzying Haze, Spinning Crane Kick, Guard, Chi Explosion, made Black Ox Statue a talent competing with the AE stun. Despite what the typical forum superhero will tell you, the only thing you'll have to game now is when to purify and when to use Ironskin (and honestly, it's not rocket science), the rest is just boredom. Considering that Mistweaver has been gutted and moved from being the most fun healer in MoP to the worst and most boring one, urgh. Poor poor monk.
Anyway I'd take my old Brewmaster (and Mistweaver) back once a day and twice on sunday.

If you really want to tank, play Druid or Death Knight or give a try at the Demon Hunter. Assuming they fix bear threat, that is.

[Amengar2407]

I'm maining a Prot-Warri and in my opinion they f... it up seriously. Why? Rage. Rage generation sucks hard. Before the patch rage was something predictable. you had a feeling for it, you knew when you would have how much rage. Now? You can't even say how much Rage you have in the next 5 seconds. No planing ahead with your rage. And its totaly out of control. Archimonde mythic I tanked solo (except for the crystal pushback). In the moment when the second Chaos starts I tank Archi, the big add, the pack off smaller adds and I soaked some chaos due to dump dps moving in the last second. I put Focused Rage on mousewheel up and IP on mousewheel down. Just roll like a maniac and hit 250k Hps in that spot....come on really blizz? more rage than i know how to spend? and then down to phase 3 only tanking arch i barely had enough rage to keep IP up a bit. Thet is in no way fun to play. 250k HPS is insane? beeing on first place on the healing meter as a warrior is fun? yes it is. But standing there and wishing to throw away half of my gear to get some decent rage on the lower wing is NOT. in no way. I'm rerolling to another class if this silly model stays that way.

Blood DK is Fun at thze moment. But it is in no way compareable to what is was before. You have downtimes if you don't have good haste ratings. And my Blood DK is at 735. In HFZ HC its extremly reliable. The rotation is fun. But you have to accept that you once in a while are sitting there and have nothing to push for 1-3 GCDs. In mythic, my co-tank is DK. And he has serious issues to stay alive. If he even remotly would try to tank archi and a big add he would die instantly. If that is due to him not playing correctly or if it is a class issue i don't know. I hadn't the possibility to try Myth on my DK. Butr everything i did, my DK was pretty solid.

My Bear is strong too. It feels also great to play. But it is definitely a more complex playstyle. You have to make decisions. But if you get IF up and refresh it in the last 1-2 sec you can get a nearly 100% uptime. Just get a sec/thirs stack up when there is a big hit to come (or ursol if that hit is magic). What i think at the moment is, that FR is nearly useless. I couldn't get it to more then a 7% hp heal. I could barely see the HP-Bar move. And i used a Weakaura to track my incoming DMG and show me the "last 5 sec dmg income" and hit it when it was high. maybe it is the same as with my warrior: outgearing the content and not getting hit hard enough. But overall druid is fun and strong. Like my DK

Paladin is strong too. And it is fun. Fun because you have the impressions that there is something going on. Every second there is something that procs, that flashes. So you become the impression: wow a machine. And then there a those 5-7 times in the row shieldthrow procs...i could go rofl every time. I love that. Its the best most fun thing ever. And there is that new d3-crusader-mount-dash-ability. OH MY is that FUN. but rotation wise? boring as hell. But well that is made up due to the things mentioned first. And it is strong...so strong. everything reduces incoming dmg by a HUGE amount. I think with low gear it could be one of the best tanks.

Brewmaster. Well that is....special. It is strong in a way. If you get single high dmg spikes. It is such a machine. if you get hit consistently it is ... squishy. My healers told me that it was quite easy to heal on boss fights but got out of control on trash fights. I had no issues controlling stagger on bosses. Keep up ISB nearly full time and when you get hit and stagger gets red purify and once in a while soak a one of your poingpong-balls and you are fine. On trash it is different. I pulled and nearly instantly my stagger hits red..and you could purify like a bastard from hell but it would always immediatly hit red again. I took dmg from hell and it was a hell of a ride. I used more big cooldowns on trash then on every bossfight before. And aggroing trash is a HUGE problem. If you can't get everything hit with your first keg smash or Firebreath you are fucked. Well you could spec in RJW but with the new Talent-respec-system......f... that. So on bossfights its fun on trash go afk and let your co-tank handle that. Overall....I loved monks before (huge array of tools, best AM ever. a lot of decisons, alot of possibilities, strong the whole way) now they feel like a crippled old bastard walking on a stick until you get to the boss and that old bastard hits you in the face.

At the End some words to the beta. I leveld a DK up to 110 and that Legendary Weapon changes SOOOOO much. It has a huge impact on Playstyle and the feeling of the class. So this can change a lot and i wouldn't be surprised if they will change some classes to a way better place then now.

[Deleted]

Im not having much issue playing my Prot War, but then again, as a Prot War, Ignore Pain has to be kept up at all times and not let drop off. But in reality sometimes it will drop off. But should be above 85% uptime and maxed out(Myself, Ive had 5m IP bubbles-800ilvl) as much as possible-depending on talents used. DK's can now do a lot of dmg, but their surviability has dropped. Druids will be one of the top tanks in Legion.

Not all Prots are bad of course. It just seems that some don't bother to use CDS and their Active Migitation for Trash-Packs. But those are usually the hardest part, Bosses are easy. It has become quite challenging to heal the TW Dungeons, and the Mythic Dungeons. Raids are fine, don't have any trouble there.

I guess that Guardians tend to be more forgiving if the Player is not using Active Skills and CD's.

[Arenis]

I've tried druid, warrior and paladin on beta and live, though not the highest content. With some decent pulling and making sure you don't aggro random patrols etc, the throughput is fine. But apart from my warrior, I'm not really having fun.

The druid armor increase feels wank to press and it sometimes doesn't really feel worthwile, as if my HP drops equally with or without it. The heal is pretty much disposable imho. I'm having no issues with threat atm, but I'm not sure doing 5-mans with randoms is the best way to judge that.

The paladin performed well, but my god it was so boring. The buttons feels meaningless to press, the extra tools a pally has are still nice though. I find the animations not that great. Consecrate doesn't really "consecrate" the ground, it just looks like some wet, sticky stuff coming from the sky. And the circling hammer spam, screw that. I hoped for more pronounced aura and seal effects, with shiny, artistic circles/shapes on the ground and symbols above you etc.

Warrior, apart from rage income (don't have maxed artifact, dunno if that changes much) which is low, plays well. The attacks feel meaty and shield block feels like proper mitigation vs multiple mobs. Ignore pain actually feels like a proper absorb, unlike in the previosu expansions, where only really high 'resolve' or w/e gave it enough.

But from a PvP perspective, it's dead to me. My warrior can't deal damage and can't survive, unlike pre-7.0.3. It feels pathetic and I really hope Blizzard does something about it.

[Bytch]

I've tried druid, warrior and paladin on beta and live, though not the highest content. With some decent pulling and making sure you don't aggro random patrols etc, the throughput is fine. But apart from my warrior, I'm not really having fun.

The druid armor increase feels wank to press and it sometimes doesn't really feel worthwile, as if my HP drops equally with or without it. The heal is pretty much disposable imho. I'm having no issues with threat atm, but I'm not sure doing 5-mans with randoms is the best way to judge that.

The paladin performed well, but my god it was so boring. The buttons feels meaningless to press, the extra tools a pally has are still nice though. I find the animations not that great. Consecrate doesn't really "consecrate" the ground, it just looks like some wet, sticky stuff coming from the sky. And the circling hammer spam, screw that. I hoped for more pronounced aura and seal effects, with shiny, artistic circles/shapes on the ground and symbols above you etc.

Warrior, apart from rage income (don't have maxed artifact, dunno if that changes much) which is low, plays well. The attacks feel meaty and shield block feels like proper mitigation vs multiple mobs. Ignore pain actually feels like a proper absorb, unlike in the previosu expansions, where only really high 'resolve' or w/e gave it enough.

But from a PvP perspective, it's dead to me. My warrior can't deal damage and can't survive, unlike pre-7.0.3. It feels pathetic and I really hope Blizzard does something about it.

Prot Wars are OP in pvp 7.0. Just dont try anything alone. Stay grouped up, with the incoming damage you'll be able to keep IP up and SB up, you'll be the 2nd most targeted to kill after healers.

As for your Druid statements I some what agree. But have gotten better at Bear in beta. IF is for melee packs/mobs where as Mark is for Magic. But Mark doesnt stack like IF does. So that sucks.

[Rhokzor]

I'm currently loving the changes to Prot Warriors and I've been playing one since vanilla launch. I feel pretty unkillable at the moment, though I havn't ventured too far into mythic HFC yet.

That being said, you need to game Ultimatum, Vengeance and Heavy Repercussions while stacking haste in order for things to smooth out. Once you get used to all that you can pretty much keep an IP going indefinitely as well as having very high uptime on SB.

[Teevo]

Brewmaster has always had a high skill cap. The bad ones are really fucking bad. The great ones are stupidly incredible. I am personally enjoying the changes to brewmaster.

[Wolfman31]

As it stands right now, you're either a Blood DK or you're not a tank.