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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by EVGAFAVOR View Post
    Way too many Blizz-Fanboys on these forums who probably have not played Vanilla or TBC. Only Casualscrubs can think this is a good change.
    Have you? Let me remind you the Vanilla / TBC rotation of some classes.

    Vanilla Mage: Frostbolt until oom (1 button)
    TBC Mage: Apply 5 stacks of Scorch, then Fireball (2 buttons)
    TBC Rogue: 4 Sinister Strike, Slice and Dice, 5 Sinister Strike, Rupture (3 buttons)
    TBC Warlock: Shadowbolt until oom, Life Tap occasionally (2 buttons)
    TBC Shaman: IIRC 1 macro did everything (1 button)

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only class that even used the term "rotation" those days was the hunter, as in "shot rotation", because back then their shots paused their auto attacks, so they had to weave the shots in between the auto attack timer.
    Then Wotlk came, and since then we have the classes more like they are now.

    It's funny, because everyone keeps praising how Vanilla and TBC were hard and now everything is so casual, and yet the mechanics back then were extremely simple. We had bosses were the strategy was "dispel this".
    NOTE: I praise Vanilla myself, but for different reasons.

    So yea, as someone who actually played back then, the pruning is very welcome.

    Dota heroes have around 4 buttons each, yet the PvP skillcap is extreme.
    Counter strike doesn't even have spells, you really just press 2 mouse buttons. Now tell me that is a casual friendly game.

    I'd rather have interesting game mechanics than stare at addons to play properly.

  2. #462
    wow is MOBA-lizing to some extent...

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by JoaoPinga View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only class that even used the term "rotation" those days was the hunter, as in "shot rotation", because back then their shots paused their auto attacks, so they had to weave the shots in between the auto attack timer.
    Then Wotlk came, and since then we have the classes more like they are now.

    It's funny, because everyone keeps praising how Vanilla and TBC were hard and now everything is so casual, and yet the mechanics back then were extremely simple. We had bosses were the strategy was "dispel this".
    NOTE: I praise Vanilla myself, but for different reasons.
    My girlfriend plays Hunter and she also played back in Vanilla. I remember in TBC she only had to use one button and that was the infamous steady shot/kill command macro.

  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    wow that almost took longer then expected
    Well what do you think your constant whining and complaining about a change you have no control over is going to do? You can either deal with it or stop playing. That's all there is to it. In the end you're probably going to continue playing the game anyway and all this bitching is going to get washed down the shitter with yours and everyone else's tears.

    Don't worry I'm sure one way or another you'll find a way to get over it like any mature adult would.
    Last edited by Pony Soldier; 2016-07-27 at 06:51 PM.
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  5. #465
    Of course you did. You had multiple ranks for each spell that could and should have been used independently of each other. You can't saying that any expansion after they took out the multiple rank stuff had more spells than that because you literally had like 9 different versions of healing touch that did different amounts of healing for different amounts of mana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xheoul View Post
    My girlfriend plays Hunter and she also played back in Vanilla. I remember in TBC she only had to use one button and that was the infamous steady shot/kill command macro.
    I remember all the fun I had spamming shadow bolt as my rotation as a destro warlock

  6. #466
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.
    most of the abilities at 60 were not used such as eagle eye for hunters not many if any use that even now, and spells had ranks back in classic level 60 most of the stuff you used has been baked in with other abilities sort of a hard macro you cant change if you like

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by FurryFoxWolf View Post
    most of the abilities at 60 were not used such as eagle eye for hunters not many if any use that even now, and spells had ranks back in classic level 60 most of the stuff you used has been baked in with other abilities sort of a hard macro you cant change if you like
    Yet shamans still have far sight. Weird. Oh, and a free hearth, which just seems like something that should have gone away in the first prune, if we're really talking about cutting back on buttons. Oh, and why isn't lightning shield (now a talent rather than base of course) a passive?

    Even weirder, how hunters lost EotB years ago, and the forums echoed "you weren't using it anyhow", yet locks still have eye of kilrogg. How did that dodge the prune exactly... I'm guessing that was part of the newly touted "class fantasy" nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoaoPinga View Post
    Have you? Let me remind you the Vanilla / TBC rotation of some classes.
    Let me remind you about how many people actually raided in vanilla / TBC, and thus gave a shit about 'only' those rotations. And point to me where anyone was making a relevant comparison between 'right now' and the first two iterations of this game.

    Less options as a player aren't some magical leveled playing field. They're just less options, that's all there is to it.

  8. #468
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    I wonder if league of legends players complain about only having 4 abilities.

    Sometimes the beauty of something is in its simplicity.

    As the game has progressed Blizzard has filled out each classes tool sets by looking at their inherent weaknesses and creating new spells that trivialize those weaknesses. Giving you a tool for every situation actually makes the game less about skill and strategy and more about execution. (Which is actually TERRIBLE for PvP) It also makes you less reliant on other players to fill in those gaps i.e. add their strength where you are weak and vice versa. (which is TERRIBLE for a multiplayer game)

    Less is more, but you guys will never see it that way so I'm basically talking to a wall.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Partysaurus Rex View Post
    I wonder if league of legends players complain about only having 4 abilities.

    Sometimes the beauty of something is in its simplicity.

    As the game has progressed Blizzard has filled out each classes tool sets by looking at their inherent weaknesses and creating new spells that trivialize those weaknesses. Giving you a tool for every situation actually makes the game less about skill and strategy and more about execution. (Which is actually TERRIBLE for PvP) It also makes you less reliant on other players to fill in those gaps i.e. add their strength where you are weak and vice versa. (which is TERRIBLE for a multiplayer game)

    Less is more, but you guys will never see it that way so I'm basically talking to a wall.
    Is League an MMORPG? thought not. You can't compare the two, WoW has a huge variety of playstyles.

    "As the game has progressed Blizzard has filled out each classes tool sets by looking at their inherent weaknesses and creating new spells that trivialize those weaknesses."

    Oh you mean like how they added Wraith walk for DKs during beta to "help out with mobility?" despite that being one of their weaknesses?, or how Rogues still retain feint tankiness, subterfuge for foolproof openers and selfhealing?

    Less is more is the dumbest saying ever.
    Last edited by Aceveda; 2016-07-27 at 09:53 PM.

  10. #470
    Comparing League to WoW is so cringe and dumb, why not compare Wow to Overwatch? or HotS(The best grandma moba ever made).

    OFC the game needs to innovate and change to not bore people, but you dont need to remove iconic skills or usefull skills that people had.

    They removed a lot from resto shamans and other classes that were iconic.
    Ex:

    Non healing totems were removed.(It was really cool seeing your totems there on the ground, and the difference between totems of different races)
    Elemental Shields were removed.(Earth shield , Water shield).

    Earth shield wanst complicated and really helped tank healing in dungeons and PvE, in Legion i only get this back as fuck talent which is sitting in my bar 90% of the time, grey, unusable and it sucks, the feeling that you cant use that ability unless in PvP sucks, and wait, theres more, It is an option, which means if isnt good i will never use.

    Blizzard is using the same failed argument that used on Diablo launch, "Oh just 1% of the people are max level, we dont need to care about max level players, we care about the majority of people that are sitting low level and if they have fun"

    "Oh lets remove earthbind totem because only 1% of the players use on their bars"

    Dude this was the difference between a good , a decent and a bad player, YOU DIDNT NEED TO BIND THE FUCK EARTHBIND TOTEM IF YOU DIDNT WANT TO and you complain about someone who does bind and for that have and advantage on you, its a fuck twisted logic that is ruining the fuck game. Yes there were some skills that anybody will miss i agree, but pruning is going too far on some classes.

    They are dumbing down the game to follow the rest of their games to attract the "Casual" player, its nothing new, but it needs to stop right now, the game was good for non casual players and it was the reason why the game were the Biggest MMO ever made.

  11. #471
    Banned A dot Ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceveda View Post

    Less is more is the dumbest saying ever.
    For those who don't understand it, I bet it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceveda View Post
    Is League an MMORPG? thought not. You can't compare the two, WoW has a huge variety of playstyles.
    It doesn't have to be an MMORPG to illustrate a point. Guild Wars had a very simplistic/limited ability/spell bar also. So there is your MMORPG reference.

    I'm trying to help you make peace with your issues. You don't like the explanation, fine. Your bitching isn't going to change it. Come to terms with the pruning or quit. It makes sense, and it has a clear design objective/intent (that works) you can either learn to understand it... or leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by heelflip View Post
    Comparing League to WoW is so cringe and dumb, why not compare Wow to Overwatch? or HotS(The best grandma moba ever made).

    OFC the game needs to innovate and change to not bore people, but you dont need to remove iconic skills or usefull skills that people had.

    They removed a lot from resto shamans and other classes that were iconic.
    Ex:

    Non healing totems were removed.(It was really cool seeing your totems there on the ground, and the difference between totems of different races)
    Elemental Shields were removed.(Earth shield , Water shield).

    Earth shield wanst complicated and really helped tank healing in dungeons and PvE, in Legion i only get this back as fuck talent which is sitting in my bar 90% of the time, grey, unusable and it sucks, the feeling that you cant use that ability unless in PvP sucks, and wait, theres more, It is an option, which means if isnt good i will never use.

    Blizzard is using the same failed argument that used on Diablo launch, "Oh just 1% of the people are max level, we dont need to care about max level players, we care about the majority of people that are sitting low level and if they have fun"

    "Oh lets remove earthbind totem because only 1% of the players use on their bars"

    Dude this was the difference between a good , a decent and a bad player, YOU DIDNT NEED TO BIND THE FUCK EARTHBIND TOTEM IF YOU DIDNT WANT TO and you complain about someone who does bind and for that have and advantage on you, its a fuck twisted logic that is ruining the fuck game. Yes there were some skills that anybody will miss i agree, but pruning is going too far on some classes.

    They are dumbing down the game to follow the rest of their games to attract the "Casual" player, its nothing new, but it needs to stop right now, the game was good for non casual players and it was the reason why the game were the Biggest MMO ever made.
    For someone who lacks the ability to think critically it might be difficult for you to draw the necessary points from such a comparison. But the fact that you don't get it puts you in the "dumb casual" group you disdain so much.

    Totems have always been clunky. Just because you like the stand em up and forget about em game design, doesn't make it dynamic or engaging. If any class every needed a prune its the shaman, and honestly totems are a GREAT place to start.

    Also while the totem is iconic to the WoW version of Shaman, there are far more iconic spells that the Warcraft universe has explored that make the shaman the class that it is.

    Having a tool or ability for any possible situation is what has dumbed down the game and its players. The very fact that you feel so threatened by the removal of "xxxxx" is proof to that. Your thinking is so 2D expand your mind for a second. Blizzard has said time and time again they don't design or balance the game for 1v1 or 1:1 scenarios. You think in terms of well if I am fighting a rogue I need this ability, and if I am fighting a DK I need this ability, and if I fight a priest I need this ability... etc. You need to be thinking in terms of I really like having the ability to lock down a target. Now that I have lost "xxxxx" who should I bring with me to get an equal or similar effect.

    Having a counter to everything your opponent can throw it at you essentially removes any and all skill. It makes it about familiarity. Because any brain dead monkey can learn to respond to specific stimuli. If "X" happens I press "Y". If "A" happens I use "B". If you are feared drop Tremor Totem. Now if you don't have that skill/ability what are you going to do? Well you bring a class that can/does. Say a priest w/ dispel... or fear ward.

    As I said earlier giving a player a tool for every possible scenario limits creativity, strategy, and skill.

    Making a class that has few weaknesses or no weakness/counter discourages people from bothering to group together at all... which one would think would be bad for a massively multiplayer game...
    Last edited by A dot Ham; 2016-07-28 at 12:05 AM.

  12. #472
    Was watching Vurtne's level 60 pvp videos and he uses about 15 spells total. (some buttons hidden from his UI) That's about how much most people have right now.
    Nostalgia is funny tho lol.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by kary View Post
    Was watching Vurtne's level 60 pvp videos and he uses about 15 spells total. (some buttons hidden from his UI) That's about how much most people have right now.
    Nostalgia is funny tho lol.
    I have 20 current spells as enhancement, 22 as elemental, and these are directly combat related, so not including rezzes, mounts, etc. I could have 1 or 2 more each (or less) depending how talents are changed.

  14. #474
    still too many spells in wow. its not 2004 anymore only a few hardcore fanboys sit around playing wow 365 days a year, the rest of us move from game to game. the simpler the better, come and see the content and then be outta here just like that

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoneseek View Post
    still too many spells in wow. its not 2004 anymore only a few hardcore fanboys sit around playing wow 365 days a year, the rest of us move from game to game. the simpler the better, come and see the content and then be outta here just like that
    Just watch the cut scenes on youtube, and save yourself a bunch of money.

  16. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by kary View Post
    Because windwall, sentry, and stoneclaw totem were good class design, ya?
    Let's not forget mocking blow, seal of the crusader, mongoose bite or counterattack.

    Such great abilities, rip /s
    What fucking retardoshit is that? They removed these Abilities with like Casualysm and not with Legion, Idiot!

  17. #477
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    look you may have had more spells at level 60 but i know for a fact you didnt even use 75% of them

  18. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by StAlia View Post
    Right! It's the rarely used and situational stuff that adds the most character, flavour, hilarity, and not to mention excitement.

    When there are so few spells that there is only one good choice, there is no real choice. That's just dull.
    My favorite choices in WoW

    Legion - Boulderfist or Enhance sucks to play (spam rockbiter over and over)

    WoD - Final Verdict for retribution - rofl

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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I 10000000% Love the Prune, I hated not having enough keys to bind all my spells to. I don't want to Shift+Alt+Tab+ another key to be able to play my character. Now I can simply put my main abilities on 1-6 or 7 and my CD's on Q-T, its so much more streamline and I love it.
    If your pressing 7 on the keyboard, I don't know what to tell you.

    Quote Originally Posted by snusrage View Post
    look you may have had more spells at level 60 but i know for a fact you didnt even use 75% of them
    This is entirely in the PVE scene where Blizzard made the raiding really dumb with immune and bad rotations. The whole game isn't ADHD spamming down bosses that never can never lock you or anything
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  19. #479
    you'll get em with the artifact and pvp talents at 110

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoneseek View Post
    still too many spells in wow. its not 2004 anymore only a few hardcore fanboys sit around playing wow 365 days a year, the rest of us move from game to game. the simpler the better, come and see the content and then be outta here just like that
    Yea make a game shit because people like you who have ADD and 50 IQ can't understand more than 3 buttons at once. gz, you won.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I have 20 current spells as enhancement, 22 as elemental, and these are directly combat related, so not including rezzes, mounts, etc. I could have 1 or 2 more each (or less) depending how talents are changed.
    What are you smoking, you do NOT have 22 spells to actively use in combat. You use like 4 buttons in your core rotation and then press some CDs every 2-3 mins. Or if you use LB and CL both in the same situation then I'm not surprised you say the shit that you do.

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