I don't like the new disc.

[Puupi]

And by 6 times I hope you meant only 2 times.

Chain Heal is about 1500% spellpower baseline for 5 targets. When you take into account Deluge, you get 1.2x multiplier. Mastery averages to maybe about 30% effect overall, so that's another 1.3x multiplier. 1500 x 1.2 x 1.3 = 2340% spellpower.

A disc priest has about 50% mastery. Smite hits for 225%. Smite also deals that 225% absorb. So it's about 5 x 0.5 x 225 + 225 = 787.5% spellpower.

So okay 6 times was a bit of exaggeration, but 3 times at least. And if you don't take into account that Smite absorb - which technically isn't an Atonement heal - it's almost 5 times the healing.

[Krstl]

Except that CH heals for about 6 times more than 5 target atonement with Smite. Also Chain Heal is smart, Atonement isn't.

You are supposed to be the smart person controlling your atonement, you shouldn't count on the game to be smart for you.

[Puupi]

You are supposed to be the smart person controlling your atonement, you shouldn't count on the game to be smart for you.

For Atonement healing you need to be proactive, not reactive. To be proactive and beat the computer AI in smartness, you would need to be a psychic.

Also, Atonement spread by PWR is defined by computer AI, not you.

[Krstl]

For Atonement healing you need to be proactive, not reactive. To be proactive and beat the computer AI in smartness, you would need to be a psychic.

Or watch your raid timers and know when something is about to happen that you need big heals for and pop Rapture and boom, tons of atonement, barrier, penance, done.

[Deleted]

If Blizzard doesnt like Disc Priest, why is the class even there ? couldnt they found any other class for a priest ? Why are they forcing their gameplay when everyone knows is unviable...

[Deleted]

Also, Atonement spread by PWR is defined by computer AI, not you.

Because the AI decides who is closest to your PWR target? There's ZERO RNG for that spell. Maybe it'd help your credibility if you understood what the spells do.

[Timberwind]

I'm glad WoD disc is gone, not only was it incredibly broken in PVP (4 200k Choas bolts aborbed with 1 cd and a PWS) but it raises the skill cap on playing a priest in general, gives them a better AOE and sustained healing potential without making the class about pre-killing all damage done, which required extremely little to set up.

[Deleted]

4 200k Choas bolts.

And sir, you say we need to improve our skill cap ? Maybe you should try another button

[Timberwind]

And sir, you say we need to improve our skill cap ? Maybe you should try another button

Wasn't me playing the lock, I was his Paladin healer. We always grimaced when seeing a disc priest because it was impossible to kill until about 15 mins into the arena when healing reduction hit about 75%. Not to mention that Choas bolt hits like a wet noodle now, so even if it was me, that doesn't exist anymore.

[Deleted]

Wasn't me playing the lock, I was his Paladin healer. We always grimaced when seeing a disc priest because it was impossible to kill until about 15 mins into the arena when healing reduction hit about 75%. Not to mention that Choas bolt hits like a wet noodle now, so even if it was me, that doesn't exist anymore.

Try to dispell shields even if it does not exist anymore still make use of other spells !

[Pearl1717]

Chain Heal is about 1500% spellpower baseline for 5 targets. When you take into account Deluge, you get 1.2x multiplier. Mastery averages to maybe about 30% effect overall, so that's another 1.3x multiplier. 1500 x 1.2 x 1.3 = 2340% spellpower.

A disc priest has about 50% mastery. Smite hits for 225%. Smite also deals that 225% absorb. So it's about 5 x 0.5 x 225 + 225 = 787.5% spellpower.

So okay 6 times was a bit of exaggeration, but 3 times at least. And if you don't take into account that Smite absorb - which technically isn't an Atonement heal - it's almost 5 times the healing.

Chain heal is not 1500 baseline. Its closer to 1013%sp. Or did you forget CH reduces in effectiveness by 30% each jump? Also CH heals 4 people, not 5. And your assumption that everyone is affected by HR/RT so you get the full 20% from deluge is not realistic in most raid scenarios, regardless of the fact most shamans will be taking AG anyway. And they'll never be taking it in dungeons cause AG is just superior to deluge. But here with deluge.

1013*1.2*1.3=1580%.

Or if we assume theyre using HT and deluge:

1483*1.2*1.3=2314%.

But lets actually factor the realistic scenario that the shaman is only using HT and not Deluge in a raid.

1489*1.3=1928

For disc, 788 is right.

So 1928/788= 2.44 (or 2.02x with deluge only, or 2.94x with deluge/HT). So yes, 6 times was an extreme exaggeration, even with your hypothetical talent set up that most rshams will not be taking. But I guess if we're going to go that way I should just put in ToF and it makes CH only 2x, 1.5x, and 2.5x more, respectively.

For Atonement healing you need to be proactive, not reactive. To be proactive and beat the computer AI in smartness, you would need to be a psychic.

Also, Atonement spread by PWR is defined by computer AI, not you.

It's almost like disc has been proactively beating the AI for the past few expansions, and it seemed to work out just fine....

And you do control where PWR gets spread because when you use PWR correctly, you're using it to blanket the raid in atonements (on the order of 15-20). You aren't just casting 1 and hoping it goes on who you want it to.

[Puupi]

Chain heal is not 1500 baseline. Its closer to 1013%sp. Or did you forget CH reduces in effectiveness by 30% each jump? Also CH heals 4 people, not 5. And your assumption that everyone is affected by HR/RT so you get the full 20% from deluge is not realistic in most raid scenarios, regardless of the fact most shamans will be taking AG anyway. And they'll never be taking it in dungeons cause AG is just superior to deluge. But here with deluge.

High Tide makes it hit 5, and we were talking about 5 targets so of course I assume High Tide. High Tide makes it reduce 15% per jump instead of 30%. Everyone affected by either Riptide or standing within HR is very much doable.

They are taking AG because of 1 minute zerg fights in mythic, not because it's clearly better than Deluge.

And you do control where PWR gets spread because when you use PWR correctly, you're using it to blanket the raid in atonements (on the order of 15-20). You aren't just casting 1 and hoping it goes on who you want it to.

Bye bye mana pool if you do that.

[Pearl1717]

High Tide makes it hit 5, and we were talking about 5 targets so of course I assume High Tide. High Tide makes it reduce 15% per jump instead of 30%. Everyone affected by either Riptide or standing within HR is very much doable.

They are taking AG because of 1 minute zerg fights in mythic, not because it's clearly better than Deluge.

And this was about Legion too. In Legion, people are taking AG for dungeons and raids, not Deluge. And I did factor in HT, and did reduce it by 15% healing/ jump in my calcs. Its still only 2.44x better, not your ridiculous 6x. Even with deluge and HT its still only 3x better. But if you actually wanted to be accurate, you should probably assume about 10% increase on deluge, not 20, you aren't going to have everyone in your raid affected by HR or RT. And 30% deephealing average is pretty insane considering 13/13M geared rshams have about 50% deephealing so youre assuming healing everyone on average while theyre at ~40% which is ridiculous. It should probably be closer to about 15-20% deephealing increase.

Bye bye mana pool if you do that.

It's really cute that you comment about how bad disc is and yet you don't understand how to play it. I'll give you a quick overview on how you do it efficiently. First you take these two talents called MB and PI. Then you alternate using MB+PI+4-6 PWR into Penance/smite/LW with MB+Rapture+PWS spam>1-2 PWR >penance/smite/LW. Oh wow look at that, Im getting out 15 atonements without burning through ridiculous amounts of mana, while setting up ridiculous amounts of burst healing.

[Deleted]

I quite like the new disc, if they had a better way of managing atonement I'd be set, but as of right now the 15sec application on whoever you healed last feels really really clunky and really puts you on your back foot if someone you didn't expect to take damage suddenly drops in health.

If they made atonement into a more streamlined system I'd be totally sold.

[Puupi]

And this was about Legion too. In Legion, people are taking AG for dungeons and raids, not Deluge. And I did factor in HT, and did reduce it by 15% healing/ jump in my calcs. Its still only 2.44x better, not your ridiculous 6x.

We'll see about that.

It's really cute that you comment about how bad disc is and yet you don't understand how to play it. I'll give you a quick overview on how you do it efficiently. First you take these two talents called MB and PI. Then you alternate using MB+PI+4-6 PWR into Penance/smite/LW with MB+Rapture+PWS spam>1-2 PWR >penance/smite/LW. Oh wow look at that, Im getting out 15 atonements without burning through ridiculous amounts of mana, while setting up ridiculous amounts of burst healing.

Oh look you can burst some atonements every once in a while. What about the rest of the time when PI nor Rapture is up? Aka 75%+ of time?

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Everyone should keep in mind Blizzard's official stance on Disc priest for Legion.

Thanks for all the feedback. To revisit something that we touched on back at Blizzcon, but perhaps haven't talked about since then: Discipline is the most complex healer to play in 7.0 by a wide margin, and is possibly the most advanced core rotation of any spec. We know this and are generally okay with it, even though we still want to manage it within reason. It is to some extent inevitable due to the mixture of DPS- and heal-type targeting that Disc has to frequently swap between, something that no other spec asks of you outside of specific talents. Also, Disc is intentionally positioned against Holy, which is one of the more accessible healers in 7.0.

Feedback from all players is still very useful for looking at potential skill-floor issues, but 7.0 Discipline is intended to be something you opt into if you are seeking out the mixed DPS/heal gameplay that it's built around.

From what I'm reading, people aren't very willing to switch talents and try builds for different situations (those complaining about atonement falling off and tanks dying because of it, for example). Disc, more than any other healer, requires you to know what you're doing and what kind of content you're going to be healing before going into it. If you take Purge the Wicked in a mythic dungeon your group is undergeared for and your tank dies due to atonement falling off [sic], this spec probably isn't for you.

[Pearl1717]

Oh look you can burst some atonements every once in a while. What about the rest of the time when PI nor Rapture is up? Aka 75%+ of time?

Again you demonstrate your lack of disc knowledge. Disc is by nature, a proactive burst healer. We do insane amounts of healing on a ~1 minute timer. We can do >= a tranq on a 1 min CD. This is balanced by the fact that outside of these burst windows, our healing is relatively low. But this is a non issue because you don't solo heal progression. Let the other healers worry about the low damage phases, ie the other 75% of the time.

Inb4 "but you can only burst heal for 10-15 seconds every minute then." Which again is a non issue cause how often do we have insane amounts of raid damage on a <1 minute timer. Almost never in all of WoD, so I doubt you'll really see that in Legion too.

[Krstl]

PI and Rapture only have 2 min cds. MB has a 1 min cd which means you can alternate them pretty easy during a boss fight. Learning how to use your mana properly will be a thing for ALL healers, not just disc priests. You can pop PI (which lasts for 20 sec), wait an extra 10 sec Pop MB (lasts for 12 sec), wait 15 more sec, pop Rapture, (lasts for 8 sec), maintain your mana for 30-45 sec, MB back up so you use it, 30 sec later (if that) PI is back up and repeat. 75% of the time without a mana cd??? I don't think so. And chances are, you won't even need to maintain them even that much unless you are using your spells incorrectly.

[Supliftz]

Disc is probably going to get changed. Not because it's a bad healer or anything (the opposite atm), but due to the fact so many people will suck at it, and demand changes.

If you want an example of this, look at mistweaver monk changes over the years. I'd wager 90% of the changes (especially the legion changes), were done because it was too hard for most people.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Disc is probably going to get changed. Not because it's a bad healer or anything (the opposite atm), but due to the fact so many people will suck at it, and demand changes.

If you want an example of this, look at mistweaver monk changes over the years. I'd wager 90% of the changes (especially the legion changes), were done because it was too hard for most people.

I'm hoping that they'll stick with it and tell people to play Holy if they can't handle Disc (like they did in that blue post). I wonder, if Monk had had two healer specs, would we still have the old Fistweaving? I guess we'll see by Legion's second raid tier.