Have addons indirectly ruined the game ?

[Vaelorian]

Addons that give you an advantage in a pvp or pve enviroment are imo bad.
If these addons are QoL changes then they should be implemented in the game itself
- better custom UI
- bag addons
- mail addons
- better interfacemenu for mounts and pets etc
- swapping gear

Things like that. Bossmods should be in the game itself (which it now sorta is in a weak way)

[Irian]

According to other posts in this thread, devs have stated that they design encounters with DBM in mind. I believe it, too. Nothing wrong with having timers and warnings. The information DBM gives is readily available, it's just a pain in the ass to access.

Now, addons like AVR (which hasn't been around for a while, I'll admit) and Kickbot are a problem.

They have, but in all honesty - and I hate that I have to use this word, for better lack of an alternative - it seems to be a lazy move on Blizzard's part, where they've accepted at this point that people who raid do so with a certain set of addons and balance raid encounters around it instead of actually telegraphing necessary information themselves.

If DBM didn't exist, Blizzard would have the opportunity to give us as much or as little information about cooldowns, timers between abilities, etc as they wanted and tune difficulty around how transparent a boss is. With DBM that's not really a possibility. They'd definitely need to telegraph more, though, which is why I say it's really just more or less the lack of desire to put that much work in because they know people will make addons to do the exact same thing anyway. In an ideal world I'd love it if there were bosses that had different levels of difficulty depending on how easy they were to predict.

[Tijuana]

Hello there,

As the title says, does anyone ever think that addons over simplified the game ?

Everyone has become so used to addons it's basically playing the game for us, everything from cd tracking to debuff tracking to encounter timers, heck even garrison tracking and plenty of other things that have trivialized content, people whine about how easy this game has become when their addons are doing 75% of the work.

I mean a lot of people believe the game has become too simple and catered towards casual which I agree with entirely, though I do get this feeling that if blizzard had instead reduced the number of addons permitted at least to a bare minimum ( like damage meters or simple UI altering addons) the game would be somewhat harder to play.

Now whether harder to play correlates with more fun to play is entirely up to the player, but for me at least I feel like this game is becoming less and less an MMORPG and more about numbers and stats and figures on a chart, people don't want to do anything that's fun, they just want to do efficient things with minimal effort.

Think of it this way, the skill floor / ceiling have gotten so close to each other over the years, if most people would turn off their addons and play they wouldn't even perform at half of what they usually do, addons indirectly trivialize skill which indirectly affects effort to enjoyment ratio.

Let's say bob puts in 10 secs of effort to walk up from point A to B and when he reaches said point he gets rewarded with a Ferrari, now what is the worth of a Ferrari if the amount of effort it takes to achieve it is 10 secs of minimal effort, that is the Ferrari's worth, 10 secs of effort.

Basically the worth of the best reward is trivialized if said reward is achieved so easily with minimal effort, on the other hand if it took bob several years to get from point A to B, that would make the worth of a Ferrari much much higher ( do note this is an example and in no way related directly to the amount of effort that should be placed in game , just for reference ).

Now the real question is, would it be more satisfying to get the best rewards with little to no effort ? would that not simply reduce the incentive to even participate in said structure to begin with ? I mean where is the fun in that ? a challenging task is rewarding because it is challenging.

Instead of having blizzard make the game harder and more complex simply to cope with the hundreds of addons that cut complexity and difficulty , why not simply remove most addons and keep the most basic ones?

I would like to hear what you guys think of this.

The only way I would say add ons have harmed the game, is by being a crutch for blizzard to not make their own UI improvements to keep up with the times. Also, I think they can be lazy making encounters because they know we will all run DBM. They don't have to make sure the bosses telegraph their moves as much when we all have timers on screen.

[MattEffect]

Yes. I've seen many different addons come and change the face of PvP and PvE. These are addons that are created specifically to enhance the game, but end of giving superior advantage. When does advantage become requirement though?

Decurse, which allowed healers to press one button to automatically dispel the most prioritized target.- removed now though, I think\
healbot, makes a bad healer into an average one
BossMods, which basically tells you raid mechanics of every fight. Wonder what a 20 man mythic raid looks like without it, considering people struggle WITH IT.
DR/CD trackers in PvP, people that use them are at a huge advantage to those who don't.

The list could go on. There are tons of addons that just focus on the enhancement of your UI and I don't think they're a problem. Things like Draenor treasures though, are stupid. With this addon you can literally flying mount on an alt, looting treasures that give quest level xp, completely ignoring the rest of the game. MasterPlan is another addon that basically played the game for you.

[Deleted]

If addons removed skill, then why is the skill gap between not skilled and skilled that huge?

[Timberwind]

If wow wants to be competitive in nature, for pvp or progression, then Add-ons are a hinderence to balance as a whole. I detest Macros and Add-ons in a PVP, they take skill out of the equation when it comes to playing a class, whenever a team can effectively create a 2v3 situation by simply removing a player with add-on timed CC that isn't fun. In a PvE environment addons are specifically there to prevent bad players from standing in bad, flashing screens and warnings, which they've tried to implement in the game themselves but people still use add-ons like GTFO because they don't pay attention. You'd see a LOT less Mythic teams without the crutches, you'd not see teams in the 3100's in pvp without mouseover macros to silence or heal without looking at the target.

[Rehok]

Hello there,

As the title says, does anyone ever think that addons over simplified the game ?

No

Everyone has become so used to addons it's basically playing the game for us, everything from cd tracking to debuff tracking to encounter timers, heck even garrison tracking and plenty of other things that have trivialized content, people whine about how easy this game has become when their addons are doing 75% of the work.

How is that simplifying the game? CD Tracking just saves me from looking at my bars, Encounter Timers aren't simplifying the game its helping people (Blizzard now have built in warnings for spells), You try and do a raid encounter which no UI and see how well you do. What garrison tracking? Thats a built in to the game......

when their addons are doing 75% of the work.

Addons dont do any of the work... Bots do work. addons help you do your work.

et's say bob puts in 10 secs of effort to walk up from point A to B and when he reaches said point he gets rewarded with a Ferrari, now what is the worth of a Ferrari if the amount of effort it takes to achieve it is 10 secs of minimal effort, that is the Ferrari's worth, 10 secs of effort.

Basically the worth of the best reward is trivialized if said reward is achieved so easily with minimal effort, on the other hand if it took bob several years to get from point A to B, that would make the worth of a Ferrari much much higher

The fuck does this have to do anything with it? If you have no addons its still going to take you 10s to reach point B.... and the price of the Ferrari is sitll going to remain the same. a Reward's value doesn't change because it took you longer to get there. Heres a better example

I just killed Mythic Blackhand and got the Ironhoof destroyer is it less of a reward now than someone killed it within the first week? no, It does its job and looks the same.

Now the real question is, would it be more satisfying to get the best rewards with little to no effort ? would that not simply reduce the incentive to even participate in said structure to begin with ? I mean where is the fun in that ? a challenging task is rewarding because it is challenging.

Im confused as to what this has to do with addons? The content's challenge remains the same regardless

[Necroofeelya]

Yeah and Macros all so ruin the game. Macros and addons take skill away from the game do not even have a person targeted and will auto silence people and then out in the world they can not even kick a mob or a boss from casting. Macros to pop everything and cast things all in a row. But some addons I do like like Atlas Loot and Bagnon and a bar mod. I would not miss macros if that was taken out of the game.

It sounds like you just hate them because other people utilize them which therefore trump your ability to play because you refuse to use a vital tool.
It does not make the game easier. Macros and addons are simply tools. Yes macros can be abused. But when they are abused, most of the time they are ineffective.
They are VERY useful in both PvP and PvE
Ex: As a DK, one of the macros I used to have before they ruined lichborn. A Macro that popped lichborn and casted death coil on myself.
If I did not have that macro. I would have to perform multiple actions. 1. Pop lichborn 2. Click or tab on myself and 3. cast
Now that sounds pathetic on paper that I am only consolidating 3 steps, but let me tell you. EVERY SECOND counts in PvP and PvE. That 2 seconds I saved could mean the difference between life or death.

As for OP post on addons. Same applies. Addons are simply just tools. Its not what is easy, its what is effective.

DBZ: Gives you countdowns and much more. However, I know plenty of people that have DBZ and still stand in the fire or get hit by things they shouldn't. Hell, sometimes DBZ just can't save you. If you have bad positioning an addon will not save you from that. It is still up to your skill.

Gladious: By far my most favorite addon. Not only allowing me to get a countdown of how much longer curses/poisons/bleeds last but I get a audio voice of what the enemy is casting on me.
This is vital because it enables me to counter, prepare for what is next, understand their rotation, and know what cooldowns they have popped. All within seconds.
You may say this is cheating, but it is 100% a tool. What else would we do? Analyze what the spell effects looked like? Other than LoS, with all the combat that goes on it can be so hard to see the small details of spell effects.

It really just sounds like you are a bit mad because you had some sort of bad experience with add ons.

[Relapses]

Nope. Blizzard's default UI is ugly as fuck and if I were forced to use I'd probably quit.

[Queen of Hamsters]

With addons, the very best players of the game in terms of PVE, wiped 400 times on ONE boss.

So no, they haven't ruined the game, nor are they "playing the game for us"... It stands to reason that if we didn't have addons, we'd have far less complex encounters in return.

This is in the same retard camp as "flying ruins muh immursionz!!"...

[Heladys]

They made the community shittier that's for sure.

The toxicity related to recount, ilvl, etc...

The community was crap well before, those addons just gave them leverage.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I would disagree. Addons and macros help the game evolve in future content releases and patches. They also provide an outlet for creative thinking on the part of the players.

[Metallourlante]

Imho it's one of the best aspect of WoW, I mean most of the addons really improve the quality of life in-game.

[Bryntrollian]

They made the community shittier that's for sure.

The toxicity related to recount, ilvl, etc...

Ilvl isn't an addon and the effects of ilvl aren't limited to usage of addons.

[Gorgodeus]

There's only 2 Addons that I personally don't really like and which I think kinda ruin things... but they're also extremely helpful in RBGs - Healers Have to Die and Battleground Targets.

I think it makes things too easy for PvPers in RBGs, and it can be annoying if you're the Healer. You get this huge "Kill me, I'm the healer!" mark above your head, and I sorta think it makes it unfair. Battleground Targets doesn't do that, but it's also extremely easy to target the heals and switch to other targets. Battleground Targets is what wins RBG matches, and that, to me, is an addon that's too powerful.

Not even close to true. Not that hard to mark a healer with a raid icon, so HHTD does nothing that can't already be done. BGT is no different than the built in arena frames, which show your opponents.

[Auxora]

The truth is that Blizz devs have built the boss fights *around* assuming people having DBM and decurse for example. It's not that designing it for no addons is the baseline and they go from there. If they didn't I'd say maybe they simplify things, but actually if DBM and decurse or similar didn't exist, the fights would be simplified to make up for it. There would be fewer curses, and fights would have easier mechanics. In fact you could probably make a case for more addons like DBM and decurse being incorporated into wow itself, like they've done with other popular mods. I'd probably add Altoholic to that list as well.

[I Push Buttons]

Ilvl isn't an addon and the effects of ilvl aren't limited to usage of addons.

The only way to see ilvl until Cataclysm was with addons.

[Gorgodeus]

You don't get built in arena frames for RBGs and you can't mark enemy players.

And so? Both teams can use it, and every serious RBG team uses them, so there is no advantage either way.

[Dartz1979]

Hello there,

As the title says, does anyone ever think that addons over simplified the game ?

Everyone has become so used to addons it's basically playing the game for us, everything from cd tracking to debuff tracking to encounter timers, heck even garrison tracking and plenty of other things that have trivialized content, people whine about how easy this game has become when their addons are doing 75% of the work.

I mean a lot of people believe the game has become too simple and catered towards casual which I agree with entirely, though I do get this feeling that if blizzard had instead reduced the number of addons permitted at least to a bare minimum ( like damage meters or simple UI altering addons) the game would be somewhat harder to play.

Now whether harder to play correlates with more fun to play is entirely up to the player, but for me at least I feel like this game is becoming less and less an MMORPG and more about numbers and stats and figures on a chart, people don't want to do anything that's fun, they just want to do efficient things with minimal effort.

Think of it this way, the skill floor / ceiling have gotten so close to each other over the years, if most people would turn off their addons and play they wouldn't even perform at half of what they usually do, addons indirectly trivialize skill which indirectly affects effort to enjoyment ratio.

Let's say bob puts in 10 secs of effort to walk up from point A to B and when he reaches said point he gets rewarded with a Ferrari, now what is the worth of a Ferrari if the amount of effort it takes to achieve it is 10 secs of minimal effort, that is the Ferrari's worth, 10 secs of effort.

Basically the worth of the best reward is trivialized if said reward is achieved so easily with minimal effort, on the other hand if it took bob several years to get from point A to B, that would make the worth of a Ferrari much much higher ( do note this is an example and in no way related directly to the amount of effort that should be placed in game , just for reference ).

Now the real question is, would it be more satisfying to get the best rewards with little to no effort ? would that not simply reduce the incentive to even participate in said structure to begin with ? I mean where is the fun in that ? a challenging task is rewarding because it is challenging.

Instead of having blizzard make the game harder and more complex simply to cope with the hundreds of addons that cut complexity and difficulty , why not simply remove most addons and keep the most basic ones?

I would like to hear what you guys think of this.

Nope addons did not ruin the game they are there to assist people.

[Gorgodeus]

I covered my pov on this in my first comment. I'm assuming you just realized you were mistaken with you previous comment?

When both teams use the adons, the addons are not "winning the contest" and it is not "unfair", which is what you attempted to postulate instead of being honest, because as a healer, you hate having a bullseye over your head.