[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[chematus]

How is Havoc badly designed?

Do you want me to repeat everything was told over 160 pages of this thread? No, thx, research by yourself.

[Deleted]

Do you want me to repeat everything was told over 160 pages of this thread? No, thx, research by yourself.

Yeah that's not how burden of proof works. I'm going to stop entertaining you now.

[Deleted]

Do you want me to repeat everything was told over 160 pages of this thread? No, thx, research by yourself.

alot have changed since the first page.

and i belive Sinsla was asking for your opinion. not others.

[Phinx]

How ironic for someone defending an auto attack spec to be complaining about "LFR heroes."

It is an objectively badly designed talent and poor implementation of something in a video game. Doesn't fit class fantasy, doesn't promote play interaction or skill, it's an all around terrible, terrible talent.

Like someone already mentioned, "don't take it" isn't an option for mythic raiders. Min maxers will always take the most optimal talents and gear etc. If Demon Blade's are the best simming dps, then I'll have to take that. Unfortunately.

You don't seem to have tried the talent, I guess. Beacuse it does indeed promote interaction or skill. You could simply hack away and get some fury, sure. Or you could try to safe up on those fury procs by staying on the gcd with other abilites and get one big load of fury do dump again. Spamming Demons Bite isn't that much faster and definitely not more engaging or fun.
But I guess I can't argue against objectivly bad desigend talents.

[chematus]

alot have changed since the first page.

and i belive Sinsla was asking for your opinion. not others.

No baseline dots/procs to track. Weak talent interaction. No unique, spec specific mechanics.
That's only about havoc, vengeance have much more depth.
I've posted already wall of text here about this topic.

[Deleted]

You don't seem to have tried the talent, I guess. Beacuse it does indeed promote interaction or skill. You could simply hack away and get some fury, sure. Or you could try to safe up on those fury procs by staying on the gcd with other abilites and get one big load of fury do dump again. Spamming Demons Bite isn't that much faster and definitely not more engaging or fun.
But I guess I can't argue against objectivly bad desigend talents.

Like the thread of him? -> http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...mplete-garbage
gg

Most people did not noticed what you said. Staying on the GCD, use FR with momentum and unload all fury. I think this playstyle is fine. The way DB is working is great!

[Phinx]

Like the thread of him? -> http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...mplete-garbage
gg

Yeah, I know that one. Pretty sure we have a new Dankdruid.

[chooi]

I try to only use Vengeful Retreat when I have Fel Rush available so I can get back to the fight instantly

Is there anything I could potentially be doing better, or something I missed entirely that will help me do higher sustain DPS?

Bold part. You are wasting a lot of Momentum uptime. Don't VR -> FR. Use better positioning.

[Deleted]

No baseline dots/procs to track. Weak talent interaction. No unique, spec specific mechanics.
That's only about havoc, vengeance have much more depth.
I've posted already wall of text here about this topic.

I've mentioned before in a thread that the speec needs at least 1 ability to actively track like a proc or dot but I got shot down for that.

Anyway, I don't think a lack of 1 ability necessarily means bad design. "Weak talent interaction" doesn't mean anything, that's just some words, please elaborate. Not sure what you mean by no unique mechanics. Most classes are arguably not "unique" any more.

[Qlix]

Man i havent read in about 2 weeks. I need to catch up. Anything important change?

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Van you said a few pages back to only TG with no fury - does that apply with Bloodlet? Wasnt the idea to avoid capping at 2 charges and keep the dot up?

[enchiridion]

I've mentioned before in a thread that the speec needs at least 1 ability to actively track like a proc or dot but I got shot down for that.

Anyway, I don't think a lack of 1 ability necessarily means bad design. "Weak talent interaction" doesn't mean anything, that's just some words, please elaborate. Not sure what you mean by no unique mechanics. Most classes are arguably not "unique" any more.

Check said thread again.

OT: Oh how the tables have turned for you lol.

Man i havent read in about 2 weeks. I need to catch up. Anything important change?

- - - Updated - - -

Van you said a few pages back to only TG with no fury - does that apply with Bloodlet? Wasnt the idea to avoid capping at 2 charges and keep the dot up?

You want to avoid holding 2 charges and cast within momentum...lets see if i can make a prio list...forgive me if it sucks

FBarr(5)>TG (to avoid capping)>Annihilation>EB>CS>TG(if only 1 charge, no risk of capping)>Fury Builder

If anyone in the TC community wants to correct me if i am wrong, feel free this is to the best of MY understanding...soooo...disclaimer there lol

[Qlix]

Check said thread again.

OT: Oh how the tables have turned for you lol.



You want to avoid holding 2 charges and cast within momentum...lets see if i can make a prio list...forgive me if it sucks

FBarr(5)>TG (to avoid capping)>Annihilation>EB>CS>TG(if only 1 charge, no risk of capping)>Fury Builder

If anyone in the TC community wants to correct me if i am wrong, feel free this is to the best of MY understanding...soooo...disclaimer there lol

I mean why would the Momentum buff even matter? DoT ticks are dynamic. 10 second recharge on TG with a 10 second DoT attached, means 100% uptime. Momentum is gonna change the damage dynamically. Why hold onto a charge to wait for a Momentum buff? (legit question here... genuinely curious what Im missing)

[Vanyali]

I mean why would the Momentum buff even matter? DoT ticks are dynamic. 10 second recharge on TG with a 10 second DoT attached, means 100% uptime. Momentum is gonna change the damage dynamically. Why hold onto a charge to wait for a Momentum buff? (legit question here... genuinely curious what Im missing)

20% extra damage on TG = 20% extra BL damage

[Qlix]

20% extra damage on TG = 20% extra BL damage

on a dot thats up 100% of the time that shifts dynamically. There is no snap shot. So again... why hold it.

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Unless youre telling me there is a snapshot.

Also, unless Im completely misunderstanding how bloodlet works. Are you saying that the initial damage from TG is the snapshot, and that the dot ticks DO NOT change dynamically after the fact?

[enchiridion]

on a dot thats up 100% of the time that shifts dynamically. There is no snap shot. So again... why hold it.

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Unless youre telling me there is a snapshot.

According to my testing the dot is NOT dynamic it always does 200% of TG no matter what but if it did you would double dip with momentum having the 20% on the base bleed damage and the 20% on individual ticks

Edit: bc i missed your update yes it snapshots because the bleed is based on TG damage

[Vanyali]

on a dot thats up 100% of the time that shifts dynamically. There is no snap shot. So again... why hold it.

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Unless youre telling me there is a snapshot.

What?

You get 20% extra damage on throw glaive, which is a direct 20% increase on bloodlet because of the increased damage from TG.

There's no snapshotting, and the buff doesn't shift dynamically; it just does a percent of the damage of throw glaive, flat.

[neck deep]

bloodlet deals the damage of the throw glaive. if the throw glaive hits 20% harder, the bloodlet deals that damage rather than just dealing increased damage during momentum, which doesn't work. not really that hard to figure out.


edit: the only time the damage of bloodlet changes is if you throw a second glaive. there may be some encounter specific shit like gorefiend that affect it but generally the damage dealt is just 200% of tg's damage.

[Qlix]

Noted. Carry on. Nothing to see here.

[enchiridion]

Noted. Carry on. Nothing to see here.

lol its all good, there was talk in the discord about it being dynamic before but thats either changed or was an incorrect assumption

[Baelroc]

Its because the Bloodlet DOT is based off of how much damage TG did. So its not snapshotting, its just how the talent works.

EDIT: Nvm see that I am late to the party as usual. Have I told you guys...lately...that I love you?