Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Undue]

So, I'm not sure if it's helpful, but my experience with beta:

I've made a few characters to level, and a few max level with full artifacts on the pvp server to play with target dummies on. Rogue and warrior, mostly.

I assume that there's still lv110 balancing to be done, and I'm certainly playing the way I would want to play.. and I'm not bad, but surely not the best. The premade 110 chars also come without relics in their weapons (they might be in the inventory actually.. I never looked), so all weaps are ilv750, I think? At least for my results. Probably provides some variation.

Rough numbers.
Outlaw got me about 142k dps on the dummy, regardless of talents, even with SnD. I use ghostly strike with SnD because I find energy can get out of hand otherwise.

Assassination was super close, for me. But without exsanguination. I used Alacrity. About even.

10 minute tests for both. Clearly anecdotal at best, but outlaw did a lot better than I anticipated. The artifact makes a big difference now.

I can provide more details when I'm not on mobile, but it certainly seemed competitive for me.

Warrior, however, had me worried by comparison. I averaged about 90k with either arms or fury.

[WskyDK]

That's pretty Good to hear, now the damned expansion needs to launch!

[PessimiStick]

My problem atm is that this hasn't been true for me at all.

Despite trying with assassination to beat outlaw, it's just not working. And i'm beating the equally geared sub rogue every time as well (and when he's outlaw, but he hates the spec and doesn't reroll rtb).

I will admit that i don't use the alchemy trinkets, though i've tried using the heirloom trinket with little effect.

I'm not talking about prepatch, I'm talking about Legion. Assassination gains a lot from their artifact, Outlaw doesn't, really. Unless you get RNGeesus on your side and roll 6-buffs all fight, Outlaw is not competitive at 110.

[Katchii]

I'm not talking about prepatch, I'm talking about Legion. Assassination gains a lot from their artifact, Outlaw doesn't, really. Unless you get RNGeesus on your side and roll 6-buffs all fight, Outlaw is not competitive at 110.

Can you elaborate bit more on what you mean by "not competitive?" How far off is Outlaw from Assassination and/ or Subtlety? 5%? 10%? More? I enjoy the Outlaw play style more than Assassination and don't mind it being a little behind, but if the difference is huge...I may have to re-think things.

[elfporn]

I'm not talking about prepatch, I'm talking about Legion. Assassination gains a lot from their artifact, Outlaw doesn't, really. Unless you get RNGeesus on your side and roll 6-buffs all fight, Outlaw is not competitive at 110.

i will agree with you on this. I'm just being bombarded by guildies asking why i'm not assassination right now and all i can say is i'm not spending gold on trinkets just to rank 4 weeks before live legion

- - - Updated - - -

Can you elaborate bit more on what you mean by "not competitive?" How far off is Outlaw from Assassination and/ or Subtlety? 5%? 10%? More? I enjoy the Outlaw play style more than Assassination and don't mind it being a little behind, but if the difference is huge...I may have to re-think things.

it was 20%+ last i checked, but i'm skeptical that those sims i saw modeled variable-ish rerolling like i outlined previously.

[Wow]

My problem atm is that this hasn't been true for me at all.

Despite trying with assassination to beat outlaw, it's just not working. And i'm beating the equally geared sub rogue every time as well (and when he's outlaw, but he hates the spec and doesn't reroll rtb).

I will admit that i don't use the alchemy trinkets, though i've tried using the heirloom trinket with little effect.

outlaw 100 ≠ outlaw 110

[elfporn]

outlaw 100 ≠ outlaw 110

ya ya ya. i still get bitched at.

[Faildevil]

I don't know if this is the correct place:
We did Iskar yesterday, here is the log:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...89&end=2120019

Could somebody explain me what I did wrong?
Yes, I died, but even for the active time the damage was low

- I held a 740 fist weapon in main hand
- I didn't caped my energy with the execption when we had to wait after the first add phase
- I finished at 6 CPs. I could use DFA more often, but I am always afraid to cap energy with it, especialy under AR effect.
- RTB was up all the times with the execption when we had to wait after the first add phase
- bladeflurry was up only at the add phases
- ghostly strike uptime was good

Maybe someone has a tip what I did wrong?

[kindath]

I don't know if this is the correct place:
We did Iskar yesterday, here is the log:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...89&end=2120019

Could somebody explain me what I did wrong?
Yes, I died, but even for the active time the damage was low

- I held a 740 fist weapon in main hand
- I didn't caped my energy with the execption when we had to wait after the first add phase
- I finished at 6 CPs. I could use DFA more often, but I am always afraid to cap energy with it, especialy under AR effect.
- RTB was up all the times with the execption when we had to wait after the first add phase
- bladeflurry was up only at the add phases
- ghostly strike uptime was good

Maybe someone has a tip what I did wrong?

You should be using a finisher at 5-6 combo points.

Alacrity fell off about 1/3rd of the way into the fight. Which isn't your fault, but significantly lessens the value of that talent.

I'm fairly certain ghostly strike is behind the other two options on that tier.

I imagine it's a DPS increase to DFA even if you do cap energy. MfD might have been a better option on this fight since there are adds that die, though.

You maybe could have gotten another AR off if you hadn't saved it for first add phase, considering you had true bearing up for most of the fight and the first add phase ended early, but you couldn't have known that at the time.

[Faildevil]

You should be using a finisher at 5-6 combo points.

Alacrity fell off about 1/3rd of the way into the fight. Which isn't your fault, but significantly lessens the value of that talent.

I'm fairly certain ghostly strike is behind the other two options on that tier.

I imagine it's a DPS increase to DFA even if you do cap energy. MfD might have been a better option on this fight, though.

You maybe could have gotten another AR off if you hadn't saved it for first add phase, considering you had true bearing up for most of the fight and the first add phase ended early, but you couldn't have known that at the time.

Thank you very much! Regarding the AR, we got the order to hold our CDs for the first add phase.
Wow, you are right about the ghostly strike! I was sure about this talent...I will change it asap.
DFA...I will play with MFD for a bit, thank you again for the tip!

[WskyDK]

Switched over from DfA to MfD last night, and I'll probably never go back.
Really smooths out the gameplay and can help you get out of shitty solo GM buffs.

[Joker12489]

So whatever happen to those thunderfury swords that people were saying was going to be for outlaw rogues? I can't find anymore up to date info.

[shaunika123]

So whatever happen to those thunderfury swords that people were saying was going to be for outlaw rogues? I can't find anymore up to date info.

they're the hidden artifact skin for the dreadblades

[Joker12489]

So like a special quest or drop?

[Tellof]

So like a special quest or drop?

Likely a quest. I was reading that the Havoc DH one involves getting an item from a regular mob drop, and noticing that the item had a hint somewhere on it in the icon or the description. That lead to going to a specific place on the map, doing some double-jumping to climb to an otherwise unreachable area, talking to an NPC, and getting tossed into a DH-only fight that involved some clever use of their mechanics. Think of it like the Warlock Green Fire quest... every class will probably have something specific towards their lore or how they work.

[kidstechno]

I bought a Stone of the Elements already having 3 pieces of crafted gear only to find they didn't lift the limit like it said in the patch notes

But overall, I actually love Outlaw. However, like many have said - it can either outperform or underperform and that's what I don't really like about it.
I was thinking but what if they made a LoL - Twisted Fate change to RTB where it cycles through buffs and you just have to hit the right one at the right time? Might be tricky but would be neat. That way you can switch buffs when needed instead of praying to the RNG gods.

[Roibale]

So like a special quest or drop?

a chinese player got one of the two bindings from dargrul the underking in mythic Neltharion's Lair as a drop.

i cant post links but there is a compilation of hidden artifact locations in the us legion general discussion forum. Just google "hidden artifact skin". Should be the first entry. The post about the outlaw skin is on Page 15.

Edit: Maybe someone else who googled it can post the thread mentioned above.

[Zoopercat]

I did some Roll the Bones tests:
840 gear with balanced stats, no special proc trinkets, full artifact (no relics). You can see the character setup toward the bottom of the report (expand it to see the gear, etc).



(The 4th line is "ReRoll any 2 buff combo if you get Grand Melee, but keep 1 buff if you have Shark Infested Waters").

For links to the reports, I have a full blog post.

Also, in case you find it useful... never rerolling has you apply the buff about 11 times in a fight. The rest apply the buff 20-30 times in a fight.

[elfporn]

Thanks zooper! Good info for sure!

[kaiserdrache]

I bought a Stone of the Elements already having 3 pieces of crafted gear only to find they didn't lift the limit like it said in the patch notes

They said they were going to fix it 1 week ago. Still no news