I Had More Spells at Level 60.....

[shoegazing]

Exactly. If you took different talents then the cookie cutter spec it wasn't because the system had choice. It meant you were a f'n idiot who didn't research your class.

....or it was because performance wasn't the most important factor when determining whether that particular player was having fun.

Why do you keep trying to force your progression raider or progression pvper mentality on other players who may not be progression oriented?

I'm a progression oriented PvPer. I never would have specced into Cloak and Dagger for instance, I'd be laughed out of the damn arena.

However Cloak and Dagger is not only a perfectly acceptable choice for someone doing world questing, it's probably the optimal choice on that tier for that type of content.

Not everyone cares about being the best. It's a wide game with a wide variety of playstyles, a fact which is lost on many of us stuck in the progression content echo chamber.

[Noxina]

I wonder how many of you who complain about how "dull" the spell book is now, have even tried Beta?

Personal experience, as a DK, the playstyle in Legion feels a ton better than in any previous expansion. I am glad they removed a ton of the spells you used once every fourth full moon. The core is still there, the spells you have always used is still there, and you get some from your artifact and talents + pvp talents. As for now on beta I got two full bars with spells that I use. Compared to the 3 bars I had on live before the pre-patch.

So before you bitch too much, try it out. Bitching wont change anything anyways, this is the route Blizzard have been going for years.

[PosPosPos]

For people who complain about ability pruning, how about blizzard clone all your spells a few hundred times but put them all on an hour's cooldown?

I mean, it's the quantity and not the quality of said spells you want, right?

[Deleted]

For people who complain about ability pruning, how about blizzard clone all your spells a few hundred times but put them all on an hour's cooldown?

I mean, it's the quantity and not the quality of said spells you want, right?

If that's your takeaway from all these threads and posts...

A lot of spells that have been removed had great situational use. The more options there are, the more people's playstyles have room to be different. There will always be theoretical best rotations, but the most interesting parts of the game are often when things go wrong and people have a chance to shine by making the most out of rarely used spells. If those spells and abilities are no longer there, removed to please the crowd confused by the third action bar, those situations will just result in a wipe after a few seconds of people mindlessly spamming Damage Ability #1 and Group Heal #2. That's hardly compelling.

But perhaps this limited pool of abilities is a better fit for Blizzard's current playerbase.

[Deleted]

Have you? Let me remind you the Vanilla / TBC rotation of some classes.

<snip>
TBC Mage: Apply 5 stacks of Scorch, then Fireball (2 buttons)
TBC Rogue: 4 Sinister Strike, Slice and Dice, 5 Sinister Strike, Rupture (3 buttons)
<snip>

You're just oversimplifying now. Even though you hold a valid point I dont like oversimplifying.

As mage: So you didnt use decurse / Poly / Blink / Frost Nova / Combustion / Dragonsbreath / conjure water (lol) / cast + use your gem / Evocation / counterspell / invisibilty / spellsteal / molten armor / mana shield / The other armor, element armor or somethin. I guess you didnt get the max out of your class.

I could make the same kind of list for the rogue. Can't speak for the other classes because I never played them in TBC.

[Sellest]

Level42 Warlock in TBC or WotLK...



They fucking made every class no fun! In the next Expansion you fucking have to only click one button and your Class plays automatically!

I can't fucking wait for Legecay Servers, Live is just a joke!

So let's have a look on those abilities:

Some summons, professions, consumables, demon summons (you can put all those spells on bars if you want to), 2 Aoe dps spells, 2 mounts, buff which you cast every 30 minutes, 2 racial, 2 drains, autoattack, macro, 2 ccs, 4 usable rotation spells. I don't know man - I feel it is good example why to prune than why not on your screenshot.

[melodramocracy]

What are you smoking, you do NOT have 22 spells to actively use in combat. You use like 4 buttons in your core rotation and then press some CDs every 2-3 mins. Or if you use LB and CL both in the same situation then I'm not surprised you say the shit that you do.

Combat uses = what I actually have at my disposal, not what's used in a single situation. Boiling down any class to only what it uses during a boss encounter is certainly one of the top dumbest arguments on this site (and there are pleeenty of dumb arguments here, no question).

[Grenzstein]

The prune was needed and made the game much better. We lost useless crappy skills / spells and got useful things instead. I actually use every single of my character's skills now. And remember that we also lose spells and skills that we don't use on our current specialization. So as Fury i don't see Protection skills and vice-versa. The prune was much smaller than many think, things are just plain better atm.

[melodramocracy]

The prune was needed and made the game much better. We lost useless crappy skills / spells and got useful things instead. I actually use every single of my character's skills now. And remember that we also lose spells and skills that we don't use on our current specialization. So as Fury i don't see Protection skills and vice-versa. The prune was much smaller than many think, things are just plain better atm.

Protection skills like taunt? There were fury abilities you weren't using in WoD?

[Prada]

At level 60 each spell had ranks and each rank had a spot in your spell book.
At level 60 you had access to all base spells across all specializations, regardless of their effectiveness to your talent choices.
At level 60 all passive abilities were listed in addition to active ones.

If you compare spells available now to back then based on the spell book feature you will have a misrepresented perspective. When you look at all spells available across each specialization and via talents, and all the passive modifications to base spells, its quite similar. Only a very few select set of spells have been removed but others have been added over time as well.

[Zoneseek]

Yea make a game shit because people like you who have ADD and 50 IQ can't understand more than 3 buttons at once. gz, you won.

Hahaha the shameless IQ flame like its 1998 again, I like it. Calm it down bro plenty of games have way fewer buttons than wow and are fun as hell, pretty much every moba comes to mind. You're probably equally terrible at all of them.

[Tharkkun]

....or it was because performance wasn't the most important factor when determining whether that particular player was having fun.

Why do you keep trying to force your progression raider or progression pvper mentality on other players who may not be progression oriented?

I'm a progression oriented PvPer. I never would have specced into Cloak and Dagger for instance, I'd be laughed out of the damn arena.

However Cloak and Dagger is not only a perfectly acceptable choice for someone doing world questing, it's probably the optimal choice on that tier for that type of content.

Not everyone cares about being the best. It's a wide game with a wide variety of playstyles, a fact which is lost on many of us stuck in the progression content echo chamber.

How can you not care about being optimal but at the same time be a progression PVP'r? Do you just auto attack when questing? Because at some point you have to press your buttons so I would think you'd at least do it correctly.

You just said yourself you choose the correct talents for PVP otherwise you'd be laughed out of the arena. So my point stands. You really had no choice in what you could choose.

[Seefer]

Seriously the prune is painful. It was very exciting checking out the new animations and xmog system. Then I see that my spellbook only has 2 pages....

This isn't a big deal for PvE, but PvP it's going to suck. I will say I actually support getting rid of all the self healing.

Most abilities weren't even used other than on a very situational basis (as in hardly NEVER), more abilities don't make things more challenging, the fights (or in pvps case, other players) make things challenging, what fun is it to need an addon to tell you when to press things or in some classes HOW TO EVEN PLAY THE CLASS! Who wants to spend hours pouring over a novel to learn their class? That isn't fun and engaging, it is mind numbing and tiresome.

- - - Updated - - -

How can you not care about being optimal but at the same time be a progression PVP'r? Do you just auto attack when questing? Because at some point you have to press your buttons so I would think you'd at least do it correctly.

You just said yourself you choose the correct talents for PVP otherwise you'd be laughed out of the arena. So my point stands. You really had no choice in what you could choose.

See my above statement, having more abilities doesn't make you more skilled, especially when you have 500 keybinds and addons telling you what to do.

[Aceveda]

How can you not care about being optimal but at the same time be a progression PVP'r? Do you just auto attack when questing? Because at some point you have to press your buttons so I would think you'd at least do it correctly.

You just said yourself you choose the correct talents for PVP otherwise you'd be laughed out of the arena. So my point stands. You really had no choice in what you could choose.

This mainly has to do with baseline abilities, e.g Gouge. I've used this ability every single session I play, for the past 11 years, and now its gone. Then there's situational abilities like Hibernate & Scare Beast which were removed in WoD, and now Legion removes Turn Evil. For what good reason, exactly?

[kary]

What fucking retardoshit is that? They removed these Abilities with like Casualysm and not with Legion, Idiot!

The point was (and is) that pruning is an ongoing thing.
It's nice that you're too stupid to realize that, as time goes on, they get rid of bad spells.

Anyway

[PosPosPos]

If that's your takeaway from all these threads and posts...

A lot of spells that have been removed had great situational use. The more options there are, the more people's playstyles have room to be different. There will always be theoretical best rotations, but the most interesting parts of the game are often when things go wrong and people have a chance to shine by making the most out of rarely used spells. If those spells and abilities are no longer there, removed to please the crowd confused by the third action bar, those situations will just result in a wipe after a few seconds of people mindlessly spamming Damage Ability #1 and Group Heal #2. That's hardly compelling.

But perhaps this limited pool of abilities is a better fit for Blizzard's current playerbase.

Yeah, the great situational use involved using it at a frequency of once every millennia, or usually never at all.

[Sykol]

I prefer looking at leveling up like aging. You lose some skills along the way, aren't as strong as you used to be, and eventually forget how to do the most mundane of tasks that used to come simply to you. Sorry, can't mass rezz, Alzheimer's lol.

[ComputerNerd]

I was always in favor of pruning but some changes I think are dumb that were made to make each spec feel unique like for rogue Blind and gouge is combat only and the other 2 keep stuns. Blind and gouge were my favorite CC's to use on my rogue smartly as assassination. In return it's been given the opportunity to use Garrote without stealth on cooldown but the silence is only 1 second.

The problem is players getting what they asked for, and being too damn stupid to see that.
They wanted less homogenisation.
As in less abilities which are shared between multiple specs of the same class.
So what blizzard did amongst other things was to redistribute the class toolkit, over multiple specs instead of having all of them have most of the same tools.
That has resulted in a decrease in the number each spec has.

Players whine about something, get what they want, and whine again because they enjoy complaining.

[Redroniksre]

Why is the gameplay worse then since Cata?

The gameplay was much better with the old class/talent systems. Go play on an WotlK server and get blown away by how awesome every class plays. The current game is a joke especially in terms of gameplay.

Already did it, what do you mean blown away? You mean how my rogue played the same as it had since vanilla? How boring combat was because every ability was boring to use? If you love numbers or having lots of useless spells, then sure it was better, but for everyone else, combat in WoW, especially with this expansion, is much better.

[Zoneseek]

Except this is an MMO not a MOBA. Mobas are shit and if I wanted to play one I would I wouldn't play WoW.

yeah and plenty of mmo's have less buttons than wow too and play just fine

anything else