Creators, fans and death threats: Talking to Joss Whedon, Neil Gaiman and more on the

[Espe]

Terrible people generally get a lot of shit thrown their way. Do you have any evidence of these threats? Who they came from? No? Nothing?

So you finally admit your ignorance on the subject. Go research the history of the "movement" and get back to me. Protip: it started with #FiveGuysAndFries so you should probably start there too.

You've attacked everyone else and are now trying to pull a victim card? Looks like Xekus was right in his assessment of you.

Great example, he was literally banned in this very thread for personally insulting me. Also for the record, simply stating facts is not an attack no matter how desperately you want to perceive it that way. Once again you seem to be projecting.

[urasim]

I don't see the issue unless you're saying you think mmoc or other forum moderators would create false death threats and send them to law enforcement.

Are you saying that trolls can't get into positions of power and create false death threats? Are you saying it isn't already happening?

You and Endus don't seem to realize that anonymity has nothing to do with it. Look at all the false rape reports that were 100% proven false. Assholes are everywhere and being anonymous has fuck all to do with any of it.

Every time police ask the community for information they always get assholes calling them and making shit up. Some of them get arrested depending on how far they go with the lie. But it always happens..

[Deleted]

This is why I think we need slightly less anonymity on the Internet. Not that everyone goes by their real names under force of law, but that site providers can connect your account with your real identity, for cases like this when actual threats are made.

Threatening to hurt someone, or their kids, isn't less of a crime because you do it on Twitter or Reddit, rather than over the phone or in an angry note on someone's door. It's criminal, regardless.

Just boycott companies you disagree with.

I never really liked Whedon. He focused on female empowerment at the expense of men far too much. I'm surprised the authoritarian left would turn against him.

But they won't be happy until all men are slaves.

[Espe]

Every time police ask the community for information they always get assholes calling them and making shit up. Some of them get arrested depending on how far they go with the lie. But it always happens..

So some people who give false information are arrested, but you have trouble believing that someone who fabricated a false death threat and sent it to law enforcement would be held responsible?

[Venant]

You can speak for yourself, like I have said multiple times I was there from the beginning. The movement started as #FiveGuysAndFries / #quinnspiracy, literally slut-shaming by a jilted ex. That is the whole reason I posted about it in this thread, it is relevant to the topic. Just because it morphed into #GamerGate after a few days and clumsily tacked on a faux crusade for "ethics in gaming journalism" doesn't mean it was "successful" in any way except in the minds of those who are so desperate for a win that they have deluded themselves into believing their impotent rage provided it. You can't polish a turd no matter how hard you try.

So if a movement like BLM is based upon a false premise, all issues raised by that movement is illegitimate? Does the fact that Valerie Solanas was a violent psychopath who attempted to assassinate Andy Warhol make all of 3rd wave feminism illegitimate? Shouldn't the atrocities of Stalin and Mao, resulting in the deaths of over 100 million people, completely discredit Leftism in general?

I don't see the logical consistency here, where you claim you can disqualify all points raised by a movement based upon an isolated part of that movement. As a basic principle completely separate from gamergate, don't you believe that a completely independent press is important for society?

[Jotaux]

So you finally admit your ignorance on the subject. Go research the history of the "movement" and get back to me. Protip: it started with #FiveGuysAndFries so you should probably start there too.

No, you are ignorant on the topic. You really need to just calm down and take a real look at the issue of ethics in gaming journalism.

Great example, he was literally banned in this very thread for personally insulting me. Also for the record, simply stating facts is not an attack no matter how desperately you want to perceive it that way. Once again you seem to be projecting.

Numerous amounts of your posts are calling them neckbeards, basement dwellers, sexists, etc. I realize that you have the protection of Endus for this topic but try not to outright lie.

[Espe]

As a basic principle completely separate from gamergate, don't you believe that a completely independent press is important for society?

Of course I believe it is. I don't believe that has anything to do with GamerGate though, because what I have seen from the #FiveGuysAndFries / GamerGater crowd shows that the movement never progressed beyond where it started, an outlet for stunted misogynists to vent their impotent rage. Check out their thread on this forum. Look at their rants in this very thread. My point exactly.

You can understand that distinction, I hope.

[The Casualty]

I would prefer not every website being an avenue for someone to potentially commit identity fraud.

If a website wants you to register your personal information, that's fine. That's their choice. Just like it's my choice to not use their site.

[Jotaux]

Of course I believe it is. I don't believe that has anything to do with GamerGate though, because what I have seen from the #FiveGuysAndFries / GamerGater crowd shows that the movement never progressed beyond where it started, an outlet for stunted misogynists to vent their impotent rage. Check out their thread on this forum. Look at their rants in this very thread. My point exactly.

You can understand that distinction, I hope.

I didn't see anyone from gamergate here say anything remotely misogynistic here. Which of course is another insult you have levied in this thread.

[urasim]

So some people who give false information are arrested, but you have trouble believing that someone who fabricated a false death threat and sent it to law enforcement would be held responsible?

Are you talking to the right person? This post doesn't make any sense with what I've written on the topic.

Must be mistaken.

[Espe]

Are you talking to the right person? This post doesn't make any sense with what I've written on the topic.

uhhh, I quoted the relevant part of your post there. It's right above my post.

[urasim]

uhhh, I quoted the relevant part of your post there. It's right above my post.

Where did I say I don't believe that a person should be held accountable for "someone who fabricated a false death threat and sent it to law enforcement"?

[Espe]

Where did I say I don't believe that a person should be held accountable for "someone who fabricated a false death threat and sent it to law enforcement"?

You misread my post. I'm saying I would expect someone who fabricated false death threats and sent them into police to be held responsible, not just be a once and a while sort of thing like you're saying when people call in and give false info, if that is even the case.

[NoiseTank13]

Thanks Espe for shitting up the topic by bringing up Gamergate. We could have had a perfectly fine discussion about the harassment of Hepler (which she didn't deserve) without mentioning it, especially since that debacle was years before "GG" ever started.

[Berengil]

You made three points there.

The first? Anonymity on the Internet so you can make threats without repercussion isn't a "freedom".

The second? I am, in fact, suggesting that it not be a special category. You've somehow gotten that point entirely backwards from what I've explicitly stated.

As for the third? I've worked for cell-phone companies and such in the past, and they definitely have the identifying information you claim they don't, even though their role is provision of communications services. The central connection is that, with both a cell provider and a website, you have an account. A personal account. One that belongs to and represents you, as an individual. The same is not true of phone booths and the postal service.

So if we were talking about posting something on a service that wasn't account-based, maybe that would feasibly make it difficult to track. But for services, like Facebook or Twitter or the like, you do have such an account, and your protest here doesn't really hold up.

Endus, it is pathetically easy to have accounts that are established with totally false identifying information. I have lots. Not on MMOC in particular, but quite a few.
Less anonymity on the web would do f all other than drive more people to establish false E-identities.

As to the main point of the thread: Ayer seems to see the truth. What is that, you ask? Simply this:

Don't barf out sht, call it entertainment, and expect people to take it lightly. Without their audience's money, creative types would starve. I don't know if that's how Ayer would put it of course, but the quote does seem to at least imply that he knows he has to please his audience.

Whedon, OTOH, has always struck me as an aloof, self-important, dismissive little turd in w/e interview, article, etc he speaks.

[Espe]

Thanks Espe for shitting up the topic by bringing up Gamergate. We could have had a perfectly fine discussion about the harassment of Hepler (which she didn't deserve) without mentioning it, especially since that debacle was years before "GG" ever started.

Why do I have to keep restating my point over and over again?

This thread is about content creators being harassed. This same site has one of the last remaining threads devoted to a movement that has been known for a ton of harassment during its very short existence. You can't honestly tell me you don't see the relevance.

Love Bojack Horseman by the way, hope for many more seasons.

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Don't barf out sht, call it entertainment, and expect people to take it lightly.

That's fine and dandy and everything, but I don't see how that excuses death threats, ever.

[Berengil]

That's fine and dandy and everything, but I don't see how that excuses death threats, ever.

Agreed. The death threats part is the height of stupidity.

I suppose I was speaking more to the idea that some creators put forth that seems to say to their audience " dont stifle my vision."

My reply to them would be" Ok. pay for it yourself. Buh Bye."

[urasim]

You misread my post. I'm saying I would expect someone who fabricated false death threats and sent them into police to be held responsible, not just be a once and a while sort of thing like you're saying when people call in and give false info, if that is even the case.

Yeah, because arresting thousands of people for calling them will go over really well with the community and they'll definitely trust the police enough to give them tips going forward. /s

How do you tell the difference between someone who lies and someone who's genuinely mistaken?

Also, your post was so badly written that I think even you had a hard time justifying it.

but you have trouble believing

Maybe you shouldn't use YOU when responding to someone if you didn't mean them specifically. You were asking me a question. So you assumed somewhere down the line that I believed that. When I called you out on the absurdity you back-peddled and said "You misread". No, you messed up.

[Espe]

I suppose I was speaking more to the idea that some creators put forth that seems to say to their audience " dont stifle my vision."

My reply to them would be" Ok. pay for it yourself. Buh Bye."

On that I completely agree. Let the market decide.

[urasim]

Why do I have to keep restating my point over and over again?

This thread is about content creators being harassed. This same site has one of the last remaining threads devoted to a movement that has been known for a ton of harassment during its very short existence. You can't honestly tell me you don't see the relevance.

Love Bojack Horseman by the way, hope for many more seasons.

That's fine and dandy and everything, but I don't see how that excuses death threats, ever.

No one sees the releveance because we know what GG was actually about. And it wasn't about harassment of content creators. They still post in there defending content creators from SJWs, like yourself, who attack them.