So...what's the deal with arcane magic?

[Psychotrip]

Hey guys, I'm a major lore-nerd and mage-fanatic and I've been pretty confused / concerned with some of the changes introduced in Warcraft: Chronicle.

- First off, how exactly is arcane magic an expression of "order"? It's always been portrayed as a chaotic, addicting, and mutagenic force from the Twisting Nether. Even wowpedia seems to contradict itself within the first paragraph (http://wow.gamepedia.com/Arcane), despite being sourced and verified. It states that arcane is "the language of order" but also states that it is "chaotic in nature" and that mages use it to "exploit the instability of the universe".

The War of the Ancients began in part because of the use of arcane magic. Illidan was seduced by the corrupting forces of arcane magic. The Legion was attracted to Azeroth because of its denizens use of arcane magic. The Order of Tirisfal was founded after humans saw firsthand the consequences of unchecked arcane magic.

Even as recently as cataclysm, the "laws of magic" are still regarded as canon, describing it as an addicting, corrupting force that attracts demons. How can this be if arcane is "the language of order" in the universe?

- In a similar vein, is there still a relationship between arcane magic and fel magic? Originally, fel magic was described as arcane magic at its most pure. Overtime, this changed a bit and it was described as arcane magic at its most corrupt and destructive. Now, neither of these things seem to be the case. If arcane magic is from the Twisting Nether, and if demons are so attracted to it, is there really no relationship between the two?

- Is there still a relationship between arcane magic and necromancy? This has been part of the canon since at least Warcraft III, and as recently as Wrath of the Lich King with the "schools of arcane magic" books found in Dalaran. With necromancy being associated with the Void, is it still a form of arcane magic?

I feel like a lot of these questions must already have answers. I haven't been following WoW lately, and this new information just threw me off. If I just sound like an ignorant crazy person who doesn't understand the new lore, then please correct me.

I just feel like it makes more sense for arcane magic to remain a representation of "pure" magic, from which many other forms are derived, rather than an expression of order which seems to contradict every single piece of lore preceeding it.

Thoughts?

[PursueTheChase]

A lot of those questions can be answered by understanding that most of what is stated in-game about Arcane magic is done so by mages, most notably from Dalaran. While their knowledge is vast compared to the average denizen of Azeroth, it is still a miniscule amount of the whole thing. I'd take the Chronicle explanation as being canon and the rest as misinterpretations of it. Since no one in the lore has actually read Chronicle, and most (except those that have conversed with Xe'ra) don't know that the titans are dead, it isn't too presumptuous to say that they might just be wrong on certain other elements.

[Psychotrip]

A lot of those questions can be answered by understanding that most of what is stated in-game about Arcane magic is done so by mages, most notably from Dalaran. While their knowledge is vast compared to the average denizen of Azeroth, it is still a miniscule amount of the whole thing. I'd take the Chronicle explanation as being canon and the rest as misinterpretations of it. Since no one in the lore has actually read Chronicle, and most (except those that have conversed with Xe'ra) don't know that the titans are dead, it isn't too presumptuous to say that they might just be wrong on certain other elements.

But it's not just things people have said. It's actual tangible things seen in the game and the surrounding stories. How can arcane magic be from the nether and be "the language of order"? How can it be so addictive and corrupting to the highborne? Why are demons attracted to it?

[Travace]

I haven't read any of the novels, most of my lore knowledge is based on wiki's and forum posts from people smarter than I so take my explanation with a grain of salt.

All magic is bad for Azeroth, (except Light magic probably.) The reason Arcane is considered creation is because it was the magic used by the Titans, but we were never supposed to have access to it, the Well of Eternity was an accident caused by the Titans when fighting the Old Gods that led the mortal races to having access to magic in the first place. Malygos was right to want to wipe us off the face of the planet, we are slowly destroying Azeroth by using magic.

All magic is also addictive, any spell cast gives the caster a sense of euphoria that entices the user to cast another spell, but where as using Arcane is doing a line of coke at a party, Fel would be like shooting heroine.

Arcane magic can be fine tuned for different effect such as fire, ice and I believe the ability to tap into the emerald dream or into the nether for nature and shadow magic (Necromancy) is also based on Arcane. Arcane is creation, so it causes something to exist that should not which leaves it open to interpretation, I believe that when the use casts arcane blast you are distorting space/time by pouring energy into it, effectively shredding the existence of the enemy for an instant.

Fel Magic is called destruction because it requires life in order to be cast. I dont believe Arcane and Fel are opposites like a Yin/Yang but Fel takes the principles of Arcane further. Arcane creates something from nothing but you have to fuel a Fel spell therefore making it stronger. I believe this is best shown in the animations for a Destro Warlock, you are just casting fire spells all over the place, they are not really "aimed" in the same way a mage aims a fire ball because you are trying to kill anything you can to fuel your Fel Spell (Chaos Bolt,) grass, critters, the trash mobs, they are being destroyed in order to give the caster power. Which is why it's seen as more evil.

TL;DR
All magic is bad, all magic is addicting, all magic is based on Arcane. Fel is taking Arcane magic further by requiring living things for stronger spells.

[Psychotrip]

I haven't read any of the novels, most of my lore knowledge is based on wiki's and forum posts from people smarter than I so take my explanation with a grain of salt.

All magic is bad for Azeroth, (except Light magic probably.) The reason Arcane is considered creation is because it was the magic used by the Titans, but we were never supposed to have access to it, the Well of Eternity was an accident caused by the Titans when fighting the Old Gods that led the mortal races to having access to magic in the first place. Malygos was right to want to wipe us off the face of the planet, we are slowly destroying Azeroth by using magic.

All magic is also addictive, any spell cast gives the caster a sense of euphoria that entices the user to cast another spell, but where as using Arcane is doing a line of coke at a party, Fel would be like shooting heroine.

Arcane magic can be fine tuned for different effect such as fire, ice and I believe the ability to tap into the emerald dream or into the nether for nature and shadow magic (Necromancy) is also based on Arcane. Arcane is creation, so it causes something to exist that should not which leaves it open to interpretation, I believe that when the use casts arcane blast you are distorting space/time by pouring energy into it, effectively shredding the existence of the enemy for an instant.

Fel Magic is called destruction because it requires life in order to be cast. I dont believe Arcane and Fel are opposites like a Yin/Yang but Fel takes the principles of Arcane further. Arcane creates something from nothing but you have to fuel a Fel spell therefore making it stronger. I believe this is best shown in the animations for a Destro Warlock, you are just casting fire spells all over the place, they are not really "aimed" in the same way a mage aims a fire ball because you are trying to kill anything you can to fuel your Fel Spell (Chaos Bolt,) grass, critters, the trash mobs, they are being destroyed in order to give the caster power. Which is why it's seen as more evil.

TL;DR
All magic is bad, all magic is addicting, all magic is based on Arcane. Fel is taking Arcane magic further by requiring living things for stronger spells.

It would make more sense if arcane was considered creation like you said, but it's not. They're claiming it represents order, which calls into question all the things I mention in my original post. Also, according to the diagram shown in the book, arcane is not the source of all magic at all. It's a completely separate form from the others derived from "order".

[sheggaro]

Retcons in the Chronicles contradicting established lore: That's how.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

You can't expect them to be crazily broken for ever. 6.2 was long and so was Arcane's reign.
The good news is, at least one of the mage specs always stupidly well with gear and trinkets. It shouldn't be long before one of them are topping the charts with 200% more dps than the second spec!

Frankly, I hope this isn't the case though. I really am hoping that this expansion we finally see real balance.

[Psychotrip]

You can't expect them to be crazily broken for ever. 6.2 was long and so was Arcane's reign.
The good news is, at least one of the mage specs always stupidly well with gear and trinkets. It shouldn't be long before one of them are topping the charts with 200% more dps than the second spec!

Frankly, I hope this isn't the case though. I really am hoping that this expansion we finally see real balance.

Uhh...I don't think this thread is about what you think it's about.

[Jokubas]

I can't explain how Arcane magic represents Order, but I think a lot of your other confusion is a result of information from different sources that contradict.

The Chronicle is the newest lore on this topic, and retcons those other sources. The main thing is that the Legion was not lured to Azeroth due to the use of arcane magic. It was simply everyone's best guess as to why they were drawn there, because we didn't know anything about world-souls yet (and I'm not sure whether we actually know that in Legion either, at least not right away).

Arcane magic is just magic now, without any innate problems.

[Nurvus]

I think it's really a matter of perspective.
The elements are chaotic and can often be associated to various states of mind (anger, etc).
Arcane is not, and unlike the elements, using it properly requires more discipline and knowledge.
Using Arcane without the required discipline and knowledge has unstable results.
So I think the point is that Arcane is the "language of Order" in how it is meant to be used properly.

[Jokubas]

I guess, maybe, a way to put it, is that each realm has a magic that's sort of innate to it. The dawn of time had Light and Void. They shared a realm. Their clash spawned two realms. One of those, the Twisting Nether, saw that clash continue endlessly, creating a chaotic realm made of fel. The other realm, the physical realm, is much more stable. Arcane magic can maybe thus be seen as the innate magic of the physical realm, so it's a stable magic that underlies a normal reality.

[Psychotrip]

If this is the case it would completely revamp a lot of establishes stories and lore. How did the well of eternity mutate trolls into night elves? What drew the demons to Azeroth if not the well? Why were demons drawn to Dalaran, prompting the creation of the Order of Tirisfal? Is the Twisting Nether the realm of order now? If not, then how can arcane magic be from there? What are the mana-forges in netherstorm sucking out from the nether? This raises so many questions and breaks so much lore for no reason.

[Polybius]

I think Arcane is just the nuclear energy of WoW. Chaotic to comprehend, but creates order.

[Psychotrip]

I think Arcane is just the nuclear energy of WoW. Chaotic to comprehend, but creates order.

This is how I always saw it. An analogy to nuclear energy could be seen as either order or chaos depending on how literal that analogy is. But here's why it still doesn't make sense for it to correspond to order: it comes from the Twisting Nether. Demons feed on it and are attracted to it. You'd have to completely revamp a lot of the lore to make any of this consistent.

[Polybius]

This is how I always saw it. An analogy to nuclear energy could be seen as either order or chaos depending on how literal that analogy is. But here's why it still doesn't make sense for it to correspond to order: it comes from the Twisting Nether. Demons feed on it and are attracted to it. You'd have to completely revamp a lot of the lore to make any of this consistent.

Unless it's the mana they are attracted to, like the felhunters. And I don't know if mana is even related to Arcane, but the Nexus makes it seem that way. I hope they expand upon this, because Arcane, Elune, and holy are confusing to understand.

[Radaney]

Your looking too deeply into the word Order as it's being used in a more abstract way of explaining the universe in the image.

Basically scrubby mortals like us, Illidan etc. aren't able to harness Arcane to the full extent of it's proper, safe and powerful potential and so it can be extremely destructive, this basically applies to every form of magic in Warcraft but Arcane and Fel have the potential to be the most powerful. Another way to explain it is that Arcane is very powerful and difficult to master but is also ...predictable and thus orderly but only if you can use it correctly.

Like imagine if I had a ball of say... nuclear energy (somehow) if I knew how I suppose I could make a power plant out of it and fuel a city, but if I'm an idiot I could also blow myself and a couple thousand km around me up. Arcane magic is just raw energy.

The Titans, which are beings directly linked or of Order and by extension Arcane unlike us scrubby mortals were able to harness Arcane to it's fullest potential and create planets and basically the universe out of it's power.

The Chronicle has a further explanation of each school of magic and explains that Arcane has the greatest potential in terms of energy or power, both in a good and bad way.

[Jokubas]

If this is the case it would completely revamp a lot of establishes stories and lore. How did the well of eternity mutate trolls into night elves? What drew the demons to Azeroth if not the well? Why were demons drawn to Dalaran, prompting the creation of the Order of Tirisfal? Is the Twisting Nether the realm of order now? If not, then how can arcane magic be from there? What are the mana-forges in netherstorm sucking out from the nether? This raises so many questions and breaks so much lore for no reason.

The Well of Eternity mutated the dark trolls because it's still a font of power. It is the blood of Azeroth itself, and granted them heightened intelligence and near immortality.

The use of arcane magic still brought Sargeras and the Burning Legion to Azeroth, but not because the magic itself. Sargeras already wanted to destroy Azeroth so the Void could not corrupt its world-soul and make a void titan, but the universe is a huge place and he didn't know where it was. The use of the Well's magic was like a lighthouse (the Twisting Nether and the physical realm are sort of parallel to each other), and finally showed him where it was.

Demons were drawn to Dalaran because the concentration of arcane energy, not always used properly, tore at the barriers between the two realms a bit, and demons are drawn to power and chaos.

The Twisting Nether is a realm of chaos. It was formed at creation along with the physical realm, but represents an endless version of that initial, chaotic creation. Demons are the natural creatures of that realm, and are not innately good or evil, but innately chaotic.

Arcane is not the magic of the Twisting Nether as it's a realm of chaos. Fel is chaos magic.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

The Twisting Nether is a realm of chaos.

No it's not. If it is, the primal force of chaos (fel) would exist there.

Arcane is not the magic of the Twisting Nether as it's a realm of chaos.

You should stop presenting unsubstantiated claims as facts. Sean Dopeland states warlocks don't harness their power from the Nether. This means that fel power (the warlocks' power) doesn't exist in the Twisting Nether OR that warlocks can't harness fel power from the place where fel power is from. Sean Dopeland is canon and is utterly incapable of being wrong (*cough* lies)

[Psychotrip]

No it's not. If it is, the primal force of chaos (fel) would exist there.



You should stop presenting unsubstantiated claims as facts. Sean Dopeland states warlocks don't harness their power from the Nether. This means that fel power (the warlocks' power) doesn't exist in the Twisting Nether OR that warlocks can't harness fel power from the place where fel power is from. Sean Dopeland is canon and is utterly incapable of being wrong (*cough* lies)

Aside from all the old sources stating that arcane magic is, indeed, the source of the Twisting Nether (the lore also used to state that fel was either pure or corrupted arcane), there's also numerous other evidence of this being the case in more recent lore. Let me re-state the questions I asked earlier:

What are the mana-forges in netherstorm sucking out from the nether? Why are some arcane mage mobs referred to as "nethermancers"? Why are demons drawn to arcane magic? Why were they drawn to the well of eternity? Why were they drawn to Dalaran, prompting the creation of the order of tirisfal? All the lore prior to this new book explicitly refers to the Nether as the source of arcane magic. This new stuff is the only contradiction.

- - - Updated - - -

The Well of Eternity mutated the dark trolls because it's still a font of power. It is the blood of Azeroth itself, and granted them heightened intelligence and near immortality.

The use of arcane magic still brought Sargeras and the Burning Legion to Azeroth, but not because the magic itself. Sargeras already wanted to destroy Azeroth so the Void could not corrupt its world-soul and make a void titan, but the universe is a huge place and he didn't know where it was. The use of the Well's magic was like a lighthouse (the Twisting Nether and the physical realm are sort of parallel to each other), and finally showed him where it was.

Demons were drawn to Dalaran because the concentration of arcane energy, not always used properly, tore at the barriers between the two realms a bit, and demons are drawn to power and chaos.

The Twisting Nether is a realm of chaos. It was formed at creation along with the physical realm, but represents an endless version of that initial, chaotic creation. Demons are the natural creatures of that realm, and are not innately good or evil, but innately chaotic.

Arcane is not the magic of the Twisting Nether as it's a realm of chaos. Fel is chaos magic.

So, again, what are the mana forges sucking out of the nether in netherstorm? And why do nethermancers exclusively use arcane magic?

[Nurvus]

If this is the case it would completely revamp a lot of establishes stories and lore. How did the well of eternity mutate trolls into night elves? What drew the demons to Azeroth if not the well? Why were demons drawn to Dalaran, prompting the creation of the Order of Tirisfal? Is the Twisting Nether the realm of order now? If not, then how can arcane magic be from there? What are the mana-forges in netherstorm sucking out from the nether? This raises so many questions and breaks so much lore for no reason.

If the demons are from the twisting nether and arcane magic was from the twisting nether, why would the demons even bother getting out of the twisting nether?
Naturally there is more to arcane than the twisting nether.