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  1. #21
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    That's exactly the problem. We are actively asking for raid tiers to be longer to compensate for Blizzard's shortcomings. They have led us to believe that 8/8/8, 6/6/12 are the only scenarios. We should be asking for 6/6/6 or at least 7/7/7, not for longer raid tiers.
    Yep, and if Bliz more evenly spaced out what they already provided, they'd come close to the numbers I previously mentioned that you now have in your own quote.


    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    21.5 months if we are being exact.
    LoL feel better now? Maybe break it down to the hour as well! Surprised you didn't do this for every estimate I gave. They were all estimates cause I mean, they really didn't need to be exact for the sake of the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Tier 17 had 2 raids, but 1 raid tier. How would having 10.75 months of Tier 17 and 10.75 months of Tier 18 solved the problem? The tiers are still 10.75 months long each. In fact I probably would've unsubscribed earlier with that spacing.
    Tier 17 gear came in two raids, yes. Those two raids, however, were distinctly separate. I watched the progress on Blackrock Foundry. Its not like people moved right from Highmaul to instantly completing Foundry. Foundry was another step of progression; another level of difficulty. As such, as I mentioned in my previous post, if the individual raids had been spaced out better, rather than having a
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    4-4-13 month breakdown
    WoD could have had a 7-7-7 month breakdown resulting in a much more tolerable separation of content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DesMephisto View Post
    Because not everyone wants to play the game 24/7 to keep up?
    Yeah, shorter periods between raids only benefits a very small % of the player base : the hardcore raider.

    A more evenly spaced raid release schedule benefits the vast majority of players.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Yep, and if Bliz more evenly spaced out what they already provided, they'd come close to the numbers I previously mentioned that you now have in your own quote.
    No. Highmaul and BRF are 1 raid tier. BRF being delayed launch content doesn't make it a new raid tier. They were both part of the advertised launch content. Just like how delaying the release of the 4 wings of ICC bosses doesn't suddenly make it 4 raid tiers. So it's nowhere near what I'm proposing, which was 6-7 months of Tier 17 (Highmaul/BRF), 6-7 months of Tier 18 (HFC), and 6-7 months of Tier 19 (in the same expansion).

    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Tier 17 gear came in two raids, yes. Those two raids, however, were distinctly separate. I watched the progress on Blackrock Foundry. Its not like people moved right from Highmaul to instantly completing Foundry. Foundry was another step of progression; another level of difficulty. As such, as I mentioned in my previous post, if the individual raids had been spaced out better, rather than having a

    WoD could have had a 7-7-7 month breakdown resulting in a much more tolerable separation of content.
    It was another level of progression just like how the release Wing 2 of Icecrown Citadel 1 month after Wing 1 was another level of progression. Or like how releasing Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Springs 1 month after MSV was another level of progression from MSV. Doesn't make any of those scenarios a separate tier.
    Last edited by styil; 2016-07-29 at 05:24 AM.

  3. #23
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    No. Highmaul and BRF are 1 raid tier. BRF being delayed launch content doesn't make it a new raid tier. They were both part of the advertised launch content. Just like how delaying the release of the 4 wings of ICC bosses doesn't suddenly make it 4 raid tiers. So it's nowhere near what I'm proposing, which was 6-7 months of Tier 17 (Highmaul/BRF), 6-7 months of Tier 18 (HFC), and 6-7 months of Tier 19 (in the same expansion).


    It was another level of progression just like how the release Wing 2 of Icecrown Citadel 1 month after Wing 1 was another level of progression. Or like how releasing Heart of Fear and Terrace of Endless Springs 1 month after Wing 1 was another level of progression from MSV. Doesn't make any of those scenarios a separate tier.
    Either way, could have easily spaced Highmaul and Foundry out more in order to "fill out" the expac more. It did work with ICC actually even if there was still too long of a content drought at the end of Wrath.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    As mentioned in the OP, "spacing out" the raid tiers is not the solution. If we spaced out Tier 17 and Tier 18 in WoD as much as we possibly could, they both would still be 11 months long each. That is far too long. The solution is more content, not less content through "spacing out".
    We aren't delusional to believe more content is gonna happen, so no it's not actually a solution.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Yep, and if Bliz more evenly spaced out what they already provided, they'd come close to the numbers I previously mentioned that you now have in your own quote.



    LoL feel better now? Maybe break it down to the hour as well! Surprised you didn't do this for every estimate I gave. They were all estimates cause I mean, they really didn't need to be exact for the sake of the argument.


    Tier 17 gear came in two raids, yes. Those two raids, however, were distinctly separate. I watched the progress on Blackrock Foundry. Its not like people moved right from Highmaul to instantly completing Foundry. Foundry was another step of progression; another level of difficulty. As such, as I mentioned in my previous post, if the individual raids had been spaced out better, rather than having a

    WoD could have had a 7-7-7 month breakdown resulting in a much more tolerable separation of content.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, shorter periods between raids only benefits a very small % of the player base : the hardcore raider.

    A more evenly spaced raid release schedule benefits the vast majority of players.
    I say this as someone who basically plays this game 24/7 too >.>
    I level warriors, I have 48 max level warriors.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Either way, could have easily spaced Highmaul and Foundry out more in order to "fill out" the expac more. It did work with ICC actually even if there was still too long of a content drought at the end of Wrath.
    They could've, but would they really be fooling anyone?

    MoP had 42 raid bosses over 26 months which is 1.62 bosses a month.
    WoD had 30 raid bosses over 21.5 months which is 1.39 bosses a month.

    MoP has 16.5% more raid content than WoD with the expansion length taken into account. Spacing WoD's content out wouldn't reconcile that 16.5% reduction in raid content. In fact, it would probably make the content gap look even more obvious. Spacing out the content only works if there is actually content to space out in the first place, which goes back to my original post.

  7. #27
    Field Marshal Messinna's Avatar
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    so now LOL become Lul? oh waw so retarded

  8. #28
    The real question is why there isn't more stuff to do outside of raids between tiers. I get that raids are important, but when the rest of the game suffers because " it'll cost us a raid tier" there's a problem.

    At least Legion has mythic+ and world quests. Hopefully those are successful enough to encourage more non-raid development.

  9. #29
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    They could've, but would they really be fooling anyone?

    MoP had 42 raid bosses over 26 months which is 1.62 bosses a month.
    WoD had 30 raid bosses over 21.5 months which is 1.39 bosses a month.

    MoP has 16.5% more raid content than WoD with the expansion length taken into account. Spacing WoD's content out wouldn't reconcile that 16.5% reduction in raid content. In fact, it would probably make the content gap look even more obvious. Spacing out the content only works if there is actually content to space out in the first place, which goes back to my original post.
    I think, based on reading the official forums, these forums, and various other WoW related forums, the amount of content isn't an issue with people so much as the content drought that occurs at the end of expansions. There is plenty of content per expansion, it just needs to be spaced out more evenly.

  10. #30
    Dreadlord Axphism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    As mentioned in the OP, "spacing out" the raid tiers is not the solution. If we spaced out Tier 17 and Tier 18 in WoD as much as we possibly could, they both would still be 11 months long each. That is far too long. The solution is more content, not less content through "spacing out".
    I would say, why choose one or the other? Space out the content a little better, release another content patch in there, and boom we should be good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Messinna View Post
    so now LOL become Lul? oh waw so retarded
    Follow the pattern properly. If LOL is lul, then wow would be wuw. Jeez.

  11. #31
    to make old content not obsolete the moment a new patch hits... they have to rework the whole system and this isnt something u ever see from Blizzard.

    I always wanted to see a System where you can scale old Content to your Level/ilvl/power with new mechanics added on the very old Bosses atleast.

    being a fix 20man like mythic there wouldnt be any balancing issues

    But hey, they rather "force fix" shit like camera distance instead of making their Game better

  12. #32
    No the issue is pacing. I'm sure everyone would love to have new content every 3 months but when you compare the time between Throne of Thunder, Siege of Orgrimmar and Warlords of Draenor it's just awful. One gap is 14 months and the other 6 months it just screams bad planning.

  13. #33
    One additional issue, the players. Yes, they need to do a better job spacing things out. People want stuff quicker and quicker, but they also want it to take next to zero time to complete. People already are on the beta claiming it takes too long to get artifact power.....what!? really!?

    You people can not have it both ways, you can not have faster QUALITY content and consume it in a few weeks. You either get quality content or you get faster content. Blizzard is a big company, but even they can not put out the quality people want as often as people consume it. Things in this game need to take some time to complete. We should not be able to log in 1 hour/day and have everything the game offers. If you don't have Rl time to complete it, then find a game that is not an mmo. You also do not need everything in a few weeks...because then what happens??? You start bitching there is no content, but then, if it takes too long, people bitch that they have to actually do something (i.e. play the game) to get anywhere.

    They do need to do better spacing things out, but they also need to in one way or another stretch out the content they do give us to fill the time between content patches. if it takes 6 months to develop content, and you finish it in a few weeks, you have gained nothing. 6 months to develop content should take ~4-6 months to consume it. Stop complaining about time investment and time in between patches if you are someone who wants easier content. You can't have both.

  14. #34
    Because "casual players", that is people who DO RAID but raid only a few hours a week, and don't go hardcore into it, don't clear content that fast and want more time to feel like they did it correctly, at the appropriate challenge level before the new content comes out .. because once it does, it becomes hard to keep some members interested in a "lower gear dropping tier", or recruit new people who want to jump into the latest content, not the last tier.

  15. #35
    The starts and ends of expansions are the problem areas. Recent expansions have had content droughts at the end, and all of them are a bit front loaded in the sense that leveling is too brief of an activity.

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Lilija's Avatar
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    Raid content should take long enough so the majority of raiding community can easily progress thru their chosen raid difficulty. In my experience anything below 6 months puts too much preasure on many guilds. Staying around 6-8 months per tier with 3 tiers gives ~18-24 months per expantion which is quite reasonable for developement process as 2 years per expantion seems to be the minimum of how often new expantions can be produced. Note, that Blizzard already tried few times to go under that and they failed. It's the specific of an mmo - it needs a lot of time.

    Also, for many raiders, doing old tier when the new one is out is mostly out of the question. So if raids are released too fast they will just leave old content unfinished and maybe come back to it just much later when it's extremely easy and irrelevant at the same time.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by brunnor View Post
    People's problem is the HUGE lull after the final tier. If it was 6 month, 6 months, 6 months, new expansion. People would be fine. But it's 6 months, 6 months, 13 months. Splitting that in to 8, 8, 9 would be a lot nicer for everyone.

    I do agree that WoD was fucked from the start. 2 raid tiers doesn't work unless the expansion is literally a year long.
    No just no, even 6 months per raid tier is too much, above that time is just killing the interest in the game during this period, in 6 months most of the non-hardcore guilds clear everything and farm the crap out of it, get exalted with whatever faction was introduced and just grind the entire content over and over during that period of time, beyond 6 months is absolute overkill,
    Hence each tier should last UP TO 6 months, for example - every time during ICC/DS/SOO/HFC ive seen alot of people take a giant pause from the game just because we had enough, they should never let this happen and that is a big reason why alot of people have unsubbed and droped their sub numbers by a bunch.
    If you take TBC we had a giant flow of content , even too much content one might say (Kaelthas killed post BT if i remember correctly).
    So how did we come so far off from being given MORE Content In LESS time to LESS content In Double-Triple the time ...

  18. #38
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    9 months between raid is still to long. Come on it's almost a year, making gaps even is not a solution.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    easy

    Take gearing process out of the equation
    Remove things that people whine about because it took to long aka Attunments and so on

    also there was a change in design philosophie of raids, up to cata the raids main difficulty were the numbers, not the mechanics. Not only this meant it took longer to clear it, more mechanics require much more time to design then number difficulty.
    This seriously sucks, I truly miss the "golden age" of TBC and Wotlk ...
    Hope legion will prove worthy (with 7.0 making the classes have less tools it might make things more interesting and group-oriented) but I think eventually all the crying scrubs (gib self heal herp derp, i dont have instant casts anymore) blizzard will answer their call once again and make the game scrub friendly -_-

  20. #40
    Does anyone else get annoyed when they spoke about the problems we have now 4 years ago on forums....and now people are only just starting to believe those people who probably were called idiots?

    Content = easily accessible and completable = Blizzard required to make more mini patches with little content just to sate the hunger for more content for awhile.

    Game was better when everyone wasn't on the same page.
    When gearing actually took months instead of days...
    When leveling took weeks instead of hours...
    When dungeons were actually difficult...and an entirely great form of endgame..
    When raids were considered somewhat exclusive
    When gold actually meant something...
    When becoming good in the game meant something

    Remember the days when content wasn't so easily completable and accessible? Pretty much the perfect formula for MMO's.

    The game has become incredibly casualized. Any idiot can start playing this game and do everything that is worth doing in 2 weeks then quit. It's pathetic and it's not going to change.

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