Fury Legion Discussion

[Qoma]

Qoma for me WW slicing onions sound was class breaking giving me headache in the long run.

Uh I haven't been involved in the WW sound conversation. That's cool though.

I may actually even make use of the sound replacement method for Furious Slash - to give it a meatier hit and make it feel more satisfying. I don't personally mind the new WW sound, it feels very hectic and fast like WW should be. But more power to you if you feel better with it some other way.

[Deleted]

Idk why are you affected by words from ppl on this thread? Most of them are Archi fanboys who can't think for themselves, follow him blindly and encourage his toxic behaviour. All this theory crafting for warriors u can do by yourself, it's not rocket science, and u can get same or better results. Take for example guides for fury and arms from WoD. They were guides almost for beginners no in depth stuff. U almost never followed these guides, not from MMO champion not from icy veins or noxic. There was the guy in WOD who posted complete like boss by boss guide, and ofc he was criticised by all these "theory crafters" lul and how he was wrong and shit, but at the end, everyone actually followed his guide, u could see it by logs. And now let the rivers of salty flood this thread, whoever reply to my post how I suk gets the cookie

to who you refer to?

[Roiids]

Idk why are you affected by words from ppl on this thread? Most of them are Archi fanboys who can't think for themselves, follow him blindly and encourage his toxic behaviour. All this theory crafting for warriors u can do by yourself, it's not rocket science, and u can get same or better results. Take for example guides for fury and arms from WoD. They were guides almost for beginners no in depth stuff. U almost never followed these guides, not from MMO champion not from icy veins or noxic. There was the guy in WOD who posted complete like boss by boss guide, and ofc he was criticised by all these "theory crafters" lul and how he was wrong and shit, but at the end, everyone actually followed his guide, u could see it by logs. And now let the rivers of salty flood this thread, whoever reply to my post how I suk gets the cookie

Theory crafting is just fun for some folks. I've always had top parses whether I followed stat weightings or not. I figured out everything Archy posts withing 2 days of playing beta... its really not hard.

EDIT: However there is lots of valuable knowledge in these posts, like bugs, BIS lists, etc etc... the value in this thread is a lot regardless of your own opinion.

[lordzed83]

Thing is Theory and practice are two different things.
I for one will go with what gives me most dps with my playstyle. There could be builds and rotations that have potential of having better dps if pulled of in perfect way. But on other side they can provide less dps doe to perosnal fuckups.

Im the guy that always stacks crit. I loved Multistrike to. This time around I plan to go crit and haste as much as possible. On beta i play with Bloodbath and like it that way to.

[Warriorsarri]

Idk why are you affected by words from ppl on this thread? Most of them are Archi fanboys who can't think for themselves, follow him blindly and encourage his toxic behaviour. All this theory crafting for warriors u can do by yourself, it's not rocket science, and u can get same or better results. Take for example guides for fury and arms from WoD. They were guides almost for beginners no in depth stuff. U almost never followed these guides, not from MMO champion not from icy veins or noxic. There was the guy in WOD who posted complete like boss by boss guide, and ofc he was criticised by all these "theory crafters" lul and how he was wrong and shit, but at the end, everyone actually followed his guide, u could see it by logs. And now let the rivers of salty flood this thread, whoever reply to my post how I suk gets the cookie

Good luck trying to do what Archi and I (+ a few more) have done the past few years, would love to see someone try.

That's not referring to finding close to optimal rotations or stat prios, those are quite easy to find, but there's a lot behind the scenes that eats up the most hours.

[Deleted]

Thing is Theory and practice are two different things.
I for one will go with what gives me most dps with my playstyle. There could be builds and rotations that have potential of having better dps if pulled of in perfect way. But on other side they can provide less dps doe to perosnal fuckups.

Im the guy that always stacks crit. I loved Multistrike to. This time around I plan to go crit and haste as much as possible. On beta i play with Bloodbath and like it that way to.

all nice and soft, but you are crippling yourself artificially.
with stacking crit for example, you are ignoring the fact that for example mastery is better at a certain point. not by much, but it adds up.
same with going bloodbath, if you use bloodbath in all situations you are losing dps because sometimes the dot will be applied not early enough, or the target simply dies too fast.
in a serious environment you are asked to perform, performing the best you can, therefore theory and practice are not entirely two different things.
just because you cant perform what is the ideal way doesnt mean theory and practice have to be different things.
practice and theory differenting would mean, that simcraft tells you, you have to have 100% uptime on the boss but practically you have downtimes due to the encounter requiring you to run around for 5 seconds like a retard. everything else is the difference between optimal performance and practical performance.

[Bigbazz]

The reason the guides weren't used well into WOD is because they weren't updated to follow current trends. Obviously as we play we discover new ways to maximise dps on a boss to boss basis, along with that the fight lengths get shorter over time favouring different approaches. Particular one was Mannoroth, the guides would tell you to run Worldbreaker + Empty Drinking Horn and that was absolutely correct if you were on progression at intended dps levels, but by the time you got to overgearing it you were replacing Worldbreaker with Unending Hunger just to cheese adds dps more and count on RNG procs to elevate your dps, it's a case of progression vs farm cheesing.

It was like when people discovered ring de-sync and it became mainstream, it didn't matter what gear you equipped (within reason) or what stats you followed or if you played perfect, de-syncing the ring was worth more than all of that if it meant you had the ring at opportune moments of the fight all to yourself, like in the execute phase for Arms.

Another was Kormrok, if you killed it at early progression pace you would take Anger Management + Bladestorm to have BS available on every set of hands... But if you were killing it fast you could take Ravager + Bladestorm and the boss would be dead before the 3rd set of hands meaning you didn't need Anger Management, and your dps would be huge just because of that.

On Hellfire Council, I used to swear by Sudden Death because in my old WOD guild we had very little cleave uptime, but in my second guild we had a tactic that essentially killed all 3 at the same time, meaning Taste for Blood to gain rage from rend was huge.. The difference in my dps between these 2 separate successful tactics for killing that boss was massive, it surpassed any level of perfect play or gear theorycrafting by a huge margin, by comparison someone getting the fel rage on the first tactic would still not come close to someone without it on the second tactic.

Point I'm trying to make is that the theorycrafting around the class in a generic environment is very useful, and even if you're not following it and getting huge ranks it doesn't mean you can't improve your play, because ultimately there are way more important factors that contribute to your overall dps, like raid strategy, raid dps distribution and RNG. If you analyse any top log you will 100% guarentee find that there is probably some play error that could have made the log even more impressive.

Most of us figure all of this stuff out for ourselves and reach a decent mastery of the class, but there are always unanswered questions and unturned rocks that can really only be answered through theorycrafting, through math (through the simulation), through action priority lists, through testing under a microscope. Most of the guides end up being for beginners and people returning from a break, but that doesn't take away from their validity and having a solid base point to work on that is the culmination of research and shared knowledge is only good for the community.


Edit : whoa I waffled on a bit too much.

[Tawm]

Warriors just seem to be the absolute shits regardless of spec right now. Every single mythic dungeon and heroic raid I've been in, Warriors are always dead bottom, with Prot outdpsing and damaging Fury and Arms. Gotta love that they have to pop cooldowns and pray to RNG jesus to not want to immediately reroll to another class, and meanwhile a hunter annihilates their entire effort with a single Barrage.

[Roiids]

Warriors just seem to be the absolute shits regardless of spec right now. Every single mythic dungeon and heroic raid I've been in, Warriors are always dead bottom, with Prot outdpsing and damaging Fury and Arms. Gotta love that they have to pop cooldowns and pray to RNG jesus to not want to immediately reroll to another class, and meanwhile a hunter annihilates their entire effort with a single Barrage.

You must be utterly playing wrong. I have not been beaten by any class except a better geared fury warrior so far on live...

[Deleted]

You must be utterly playing wrong. I have not been beaten by any class except a better geared fury warrior so far on live...

Then you must be playing with utterly bad players in your groups.
There are classes that are simply stronger as of now.

[Roiids]

Then you must be playing with utterly bad players in your groups.
There are classes that are simply stronger as of now.

Oh you are correct I got slaughtered on an Archi by a mage. I didn't look what spec he was.

However consistently top 3 in any raid group and usually #1 in M dungeons thus far.

[Bigbazz]

You must be utterly playing wrong. I have not been beaten by any class except a better geared fury warrior so far on live...

Throw in some context, Warriors in HFC are middle/lower pack with no particular strengths outside of 3-5 target sustained cleave, we are getting absolutely slaughtered en-masse at level 100 Mythic raiding. For sure Warriors do really well in Mythic dungeons, but on the boss you're still gonna get trashed hard by a MM Hunter or a Mage.

[Artunias]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...795&dataset=95

Warriors are mediocre at best. We are being balanced around level 110 with tier bonuses, artifacts, and legendaries.

Warriors happen to have some of the strongest of all three of those. I remain fully convinced in Nighthold with the tier bonus and if you can get 2 of the good legendaries, with one of them being the helm. We will be one of the strongest classes in the game.

But right now, if you're topping all the meters then the people you're playing with are doing it wrong.

[Snuglz]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...795&dataset=95

Warriors are mediocre at best. We are being balanced around level 110 with tier bonuses, artifacts, and legendaries.

Warriors happen to have some of the strongest of all three of those. I remain fully convinced in Nighthold with the tier bonus and if you can get 2 of the good legendaries, with one of them being the helm. We will be one of the strongest classes in the game.

But right now, if you're topping all the meters then the people you're playing with are doing it wrong.

The two piece bonus being: Furious Slash granting 5% more crit on Bloodthirst and 4 piece giving you 1.5sec to Enrage. Im curious how that would bring us above everyone else. Or is it mainly the helm (which I cannot currently find)

Edit: you mean: Ceann-Ar Charger (Helmet) - Gain 10 Rage whenever you Enrage?

[Artunias]

The two piece bonus being: Furious Slash granting 5% more crit on Bloodthirst and 4 piece giving you 1.5sec to Enrage. Im curious how that would bring us above everyone else. Or is it mainly the helm (which I cannot currently find)

Edit: you mean: Ceann-Ar Charger (Helmet) - Gain 10 Rage whenever you Enrage?

The legendaries are the bigger parts, but I think you're underestimating the strength of that 4pc bonus. It's a 37.5% increase to enrage duration, and we are sitting at around 65-70% uptime in Beta. And enrage is super powerful. With the helm and that 4pc it should bump enrage back into the 95% uptime range.

[PenguinJim]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...795&dataset=95

Warriors are mediocre at best. We are being balanced around level 110 with tier bonuses, artifacts, and legendaries.

Warriors happen to have some of the strongest of all three of those. I remain fully convinced in Nighthold with the tier bonus and if you can get 2 of the good legendaries, with one of them being the helm. We will be one of the strongest classes in the game.

Is this for fury only, or will arms be just as competitive as well?

[Roiids]

I have mostly just been tooling around in M dungeons so my comment was skewed, my fault. We haven't raided since M archi. In dungeons we tear it up with our meatcleave. My bad all. I'll be more specific next time. But the few raids I have done there must be shit players because I always toward the top.

How long has it taken you guys to get a legendary on Beta, I never got one, but I also didnt chain run dungoens, mainly because I want the end game to feel fresh when I do it on live.

[Deleted]

Good luck trying to do what Archi and I (+ a few more) have done the past few years, would love to see someone try.

That's not referring to finding close to optimal rotations or stat prios, those are quite easy to find, but there's a lot behind the scenes that eats up the most hours.

That's not really my priority, cuz I don't find theory crafting that amusing nor I have time to do much of it. A thing u need to do, to be more efficient and noticeable, is to make detailed in-depth guides, otherwise, all your work kinda goes in vain. All I could read from WoDs guides on MMO champion (with a slight exaggeration) is Bladestorm for AOE and Avatar for ST. What would be much appreciated, is to make boss by boss guide, on talents, gear, CD management etc. And all that before mythic progression start, cuz for farm it doesn't really matter. That's how a guide should be IMO. Making a guide and giving some cookie cutter talents and gear, and telling us we should use dragon roar before battle cry cuz DR is guaranteed crit anyway, or to prioritize raging blow if we have inner rage isn't much of a help.

[Anbokr]

Yo, my fury warrior bros, so I just resubbed and getting more info on legion and trying stuff out.

There's one thing bugging me though, and it's that I most definitely want to play Arms in PvP and Fury in PvE, but I'd just be gimping myself because of artifacts right? Can you keep up with two artifacts or will you be quite a bit behind someone who just focuses on one spec and thus be at a disadvantage in both parts of the game? Is it better to have two warriors or even just a pvp main then pve main because of artifacts?

I'm just kind of unsure how they work in general and the progression. My impression is that this xpac encourages you to stick to 1 class 1 spec to take your character to the max; very diablo-esque, except the artifact stuff isn't account wide. And so trying to put points into two specs or split your time between multiple chars will leave you behind on traits and the infinitely scaling paragon-esque mechanic after you max out a tree?

I hope this isn't the case, cause I would like to play both arms and fury .

[Snuglz]

The legendaries are the bigger parts, but I think you're underestimating the strength of that 4pc bonus. It's a 37.5% increase to enrage duration, and we are sitting at around 65-70% uptime in Beta. And enrage is super powerful. With the helm and that 4pc it should bump enrage back into the 95% uptime range.

I gotcha, thank you for the explanation. Makes sense. I didn't get where the boost was individually, but combined I got it now