My problems with Ana

[Temp name]

I never claimed she was, or that you would; I have been making the opposite argument. I've been opposing the idea that Ana is supposed to be a full-on sniper.

Was merely quoting the most appropriate few sentences to make my point

[BananaHandsB]

Quickplay is quickplay is quickplay is quickplay.

[Jessicka]

No, I'm contradicting your claim that she's "broken" because sniping's not the majority of her gameplay.

I said her 'class fantasy' is broken. Her entire story, intro, comic, selling point, is that she's a sniper, and she even takes up a sniper 'slot' according to the in-game composition advice; and yet she doesn't play as a sniper hardly at all. Coming back to say 'she can, a bit, occasionally' doesn't really cut it with what they're selling her as.

I've not said her gameplay is broken, I just said it's not what's expected from her and why so many people get it wrong - and why I'm not overly fond.

[Endus]

I said her 'class fantasy' is broken. Her entire story, intro, comic, selling point, is that she's a sniper, and she even takes up a sniper 'slot' according to the in-game composition advice; and yet she doesn't play as a sniper hardly at all. Coming back to say 'she can, a bit, occasionally' doesn't really cut it with what they're selling her as.

I've not said her gameplay is broken, I just said it's not what's expected from her and why so many people get it wrong - and why I'm not overly fond.

The point, which you keep missing, is that your complaint is with your interpretation of what "sniper" means, not anything to do with Overwatch's interpretation, or Ana, or her gameplay.

It's entirely your own subjective feeling.

[Jessicka]

The point, which you keep missing, is that your complaint is with your interpretation of what "sniper" means, not anything to do with Overwatch's interpretation, or Ana, or her gameplay.

It's entirely your own subjective feeling.

I have a feeling you've neither watched her intro video or read her comic.

[Endus]

I have a feeling you've neither watched her intro video or read her comic.

...

I have. Those show she CAN snipe. You're talking about her EXCLUSIVELY sniping. That's the part you keep inventing out of nothing.

The intro video in particular is really not a good example to pull from; it's meant to highlight her abilities, not be a sample of actual gameplay. That's why she grenades Roadhog and then just watches as someone else kills him, rather than helping. Heck, it opens up with her on the arch in Anubis, which she can't even reach.

[Jessicka]

I'm not saying anything about "exclusively" sniping, there's a world between that and the almost never that she actually snipes. She's not even mostly, or half sniper, it's just 'a thing she can just about do at a pinch if necessary'. To refer to her as a sniper on that premise is quite the stretch.

[Scufflegrit]

her comic has her counter-sniping with her. But she isn't like that in gameplay whatsoever.

You mean like Genji using his ULTIMATE to reflect Hanzo's Ultimate in the Dragons trailer? Or Tracer teleporting into Winston's hand so he can throw her in the original cinematic trailer?

Yeah, things that happen in the trailers and comics aren't always going to be exactly the same as they are in the actual game. That holds true for any game with external media.

[Jessicka]

You mean like Genji using his ULTIMATE to reflect Hanzo's Ultimate in the Dragons trailer? Or Tracer teleporting into Winston's hand so he can throw her in the original cinematic trailer?

Yeah, things that happen in the trailers and comics aren't always going to be exactly the same as they are in the actual game. That holds true for any game with external media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IVquMhCta8

[Scufflegrit]

I know Genji can deflect Hanzo's Ultimate. Using his DEFLECT skill.

He cannot do it using his ULTIMATE, as I stated in my previous post. That's why I posted it in caps in both posts. Point being, it doesn't work like that in the game.

[Jessicka]

I know Genji can deflect Hanzo's Ultimate. Using his DEFLECT skill.

He cannot do it using his ULTIMATE, as I stated in my previous post. That's why I posted it in caps in both posts. Point being, it doesn't work like that in the game.

If she wasn't referred to as a sniper, or shown to be a sniper, and didn't count as a sniper; is be fine with that. The M4, SG552 and Steyr AUG in CS have a scope which gets about as much use - and no one claims they're for sniping. They don't give you any impression that that's what you're going to be doing with them.

[Endus]

If she wasn't referred to as a sniper, or shown to be a sniper, and didn't count as a sniper; is be fine with that. The M4, SG552 and Steyr AUG in CS have a scope which gets about as much use - and no one claims they're for sniping. They don't give you any impression that that's what you're going to be doing with them.

The point you keep glossing over is that she is a sniper. Her rifle is a sniper rifle. It has a scope and everything.

She just doesn't play like the specific type of emplacement sniper you imagined her to exclusively be, on basically no basis from anything in-game.

Also, note that the origin comic you reference is her time in Overwatch, which predates her current concept. She was exclusively a sniper, and the rifle you see her using in that comic is not the biotic rifle she uses in-game. The person she is now is because of the moral break she had in that comic. Of course she's not the same as she was before. That's really just not an argument, at all.

[Jessicka]

The point you keep glossing over is that she is a sniper. Her rifle is a sniper rifle. It has a scope and everything.

And as you pointed out before, Hanzo has no scope. There are plenty of production rifles that have a scope, but aren't sniper rifles; I've pointed out a few you can use in Counter-Strike, which you use the scope about as much as you do with Ana. For much the same reasons. That doesn't make them sniper rifles, or what you're doing sniping; it's just using a scope.

She just doesn't play like the specific type of emplacement sniper you imagined her to exclusively be, on basically no basis from anything in-game.

This is the wikipedia definition I'm uniquely ascribing to a sniper:

A sniper is a marksman or qualified specialist who operates alone, in a pair, or with a sniper team to maintain close visual contact with the enemy and engage targets from concealed positions or distances exceeding the detection capabilities of enemy personnel. Snipers typically have highly selective or specialized training and use crew-served high-precision/special application rifles and optics, and often have sophisticated communication assets to feed valuable combat information back to their units or military bases.

This is not Ana, at all. She is not a sniper. Hanzo and Widowmaker do fit that description, they are both snipers.

You're the one fabricating this new kind of mobile sniper that doesn't actually do much of any sniping.

Also, note that the origin comic you reference is her time in Overwatch, which predates her current concept. She was exclusively a sniper, and the rifle you see her using in that comic is not the biotic rifle she uses in-game. The person she is now is because of the moral break she had in that comic. Of course she's not the same as she was before. That's really just not an argument, at all.

'Old Soldiers', she's up there with the Biotic Rifle on a window ledge taking shots at Soldier and Reaper, from range... And now the Biotic Rifle isn't the sniper rifle you describe in the first line?

[Endus]

And as you pointed out before, Hanzo has no scope. There are plenty of production rifles that have a scope, but aren't sniper rifles; I've pointed out a few you can use in Counter-Strike, which you use the scope about as much as you do with Ana. For much the same reasons. That doesn't make them sniper rifles, or what you're doing sniping; it's just using a scope.


This is the wikipedia definition I'm uniquely ascribing to a sniper:

This is not Ana, at all. She is not a sniper. Hanzo and Widowmaker do fit that description, they are both snipers.

You're the one fabricating this new kind of mobile sniper that doesn't actually do much of any sniping.

No, it doesn't apply to Overwatch. Given that we all operate as part of a 6-man team, and those aren't 'sniper teams', your definition doesn't fit. And Hanzo fits the definition you've listed far less than Ana does; Ana does have specialized training and special application weaponry. Hanzo's got a bow, and some magic powers.

You're picking and choosing when and where it suits you.

'Old Soldiers', she's up there with the Biotic Rifle on a window ledge taking shots at Soldier and Reaper, from range...

And starts taking more rapid shots at Reaper as he charges her position, from relatively close ranges.

And like I said; Ana's perfectly capable of covering people in-game in exactly the way that comic demonstrates.

[Deleted]

Problem with Ana is... Well you might as well drop your keyboard and go grab a drink if you hear Ryu-Ken which you gonna hear atleast 4+ times per game with the current Gengu "#¤% meta.

[Jessicka]

No, it doesn't apply to Overwatch. Given that we all operate as part of a 6-man team, and those aren't 'sniper teams', your definition doesn't fit. And Hanzo fits the definition you've listed far less than Ana does; Ana does have specialized training and special application weaponry. Hanzo's got a bow, and some magic powers.

You're picking and choosing when and where it suits you.

You ignore the 'operates alone' definition in the very first sentence of the description I posted, and I'm the one cherry picking? And 'magic powers' aren't specialist training now? Even though it's abundantly clear he has super-specialist training (and equipment in the form of sonic arrows!) as only one of two 'Shimada' we know about?

And starts taking more rapid shots at Reaper as he charges her position, from relatively close ranges.

And like I said; Ana's perfectly capable of covering people in-game in exactly the way that comic demonstrates.

And Widowmaker switches to assault rifle mode fighting Tracer. Her main role is pretty strongly identified as that not being her ideal.

But basically, Ana can be a Sniper, because Overwatch's idea of a Sniper, for Ana specifically, is entirely different from the more widely understood and defined definition of a Sniper and the one they've kind of stuck with for their other two. Okay.

[TITAN308]

If she was unable to fire her sniper rifle while unscoped it would be more fitting.

As it stands now, its more like a railgun that happens to have a scope on it, not a sniper rifle.

[Endus]

You ignore the 'operates alone' definition in the very first sentence of the description I posted, and I'm the one cherry picking?

Yes, given that it cannot apply to Overwatch, since all heroes run with a balanced 6-man team. Not alone, not in pairs, not in a specialized sniper team.

But basically, Ana can be a Sniper, because Overwatch's idea of a Sniper, for Ana specifically, is entirely different from the more widely understood and defined definition of a Sniper and the one they've kind of stuck with for their other two. Okay.

You're still not getting that what you thought was meant by "sniper" is not what Overwatch means by "sniper". Ana not fitting your preconception isn't a "mistake".

[Deleted]

If she wasn't referred to as a sniper, or shown to be a sniper, and didn't count as a sniper; is be fine with that. The M4, SG552 and Steyr AUG in CS have a scope which gets about as much use - and no one claims they're for sniping. They don't give you any impression that that's what you're going to be doing with them.

I almost exclusively heal with the scope, its instant hit for any team mate in teh triangular sights.....so I snipe heal all the time.

And she can do a decent amount of dmg with snipes, sit back in a good spot and no one ever goes for you, so you can do your job in relative safety, you only need to hipshot when pressured.

She fits my idea of a sniping character, your problem is that you have a very narrow view and cant accept others have different opinions.

[Jessicka]

I almost exclusively heal with the scope, its instant hit for any team mate in teh triangular sights.....so I snipe heal all the time.

And she can do a decent amount of dmg with snipes, sit back in a good spot and no one ever goes for you, so you can do your job in relative safety, you only need to hipshot when pressured.

She fits my idea of a sniping character, your problem is that you have a very narrow view and cant accept others have different opinions.

If you're sitting back and sniping you're missing out on most of her utility, which comes through the Grenade.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, given that it cannot apply to Overwatch, since all heroes run with a balanced 6-man team. Not alone, not in pairs, not in a specialized sniper team.

You're still not getting that what you thought was meant by "sniper" is not what Overwatch means by "sniper". Ana not fitting your preconception isn't a "mistake".

We'll have to agree to disagree, because I think Hanzo and WM actually fit the role pretty well; which tells me 'Overwatch' doesn't actually disagree with me so much; that the outlier is Ana who spends most of her time in the thick of the team and very little time with her actual scoping to really be considered a sniper.