2016 Democratic National Convention - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania - July 25-28

[akris15]

I think, ultimately, the Bernie or Bust movement has completely screwed themselves over. They made it very, very clear that they would not vote for Clinton over what are basically non issues. So Clinton's platform, apart from a few areas where she has historically always been interested such as education reform, is moving on without them. Protecting and expanding the middle class was numerically always a higher priority than pulling back American involvement around the world, but what the Berniebros have done is made it completely irrelevant to attempt to adopt their positions. Why struggle and fight to appease them when you can push them aside? The further right Clinton goes because there's nothing the far left is willing to go, the less they gain at the end of the day.

Basically to the Bernie or Bust crowd since you wanted to stomp your feet like children you get sent to the kids table when it comes time to discuss policy.

[Deleted]

Basically to the Bernie or Bust crowd since you wanted to stomp your feet like children

Having the freedom to vote for the candidate of one's choice isn't childish, is it? Should that freedom not exist?

[Naxere]

Watched a part of Hillary's speech last night, still couldn't stand more than 5 minutes of listening to her talk.

[Elegiac]

Having the freedom to vote for the candidate of one's choice isn't childish, is it? Should that freedom not exist?

When using that freedom in such a way as to guarantee your political goals will not come to fruition, yeah, it's fucking childish.

The behaviour of the Bernie Bros at my state caucus is precisely one of the reasons why I voted against them.

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Watched a part of Hillary's speech last night, still couldn't stand more than 5 minutes of listening to her talk.

I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way about you, dude.

[akris15]

Having the freedom to vote for the candidate of one's choice isn't childish, is it? Should that freedom not exist?

No what is Childish is instead of trying to compromise you demand she adopts all of your policy position or else you make yourselves look like children on national tv like what the California delegation did. Instead they sent a clear message of they are refusing to work with Clinton so Clinton is basically like "ok you want to act like kids go ahead and vote for Stein ill just move to the middle-right to get disenfranchised Republicans (like Scroe) instead. Since Stein has 0% chance of winning and if Clinton wins in November guess who shes not going to listen too. So now instead of getting like 15-20% of their platform included they get 0% because they wanted to act like kids so essentially they got to the kids table while the adults actually conduct business.

[Deleted]

When using that freedom in such a way as to guarantee your political goals will not come to fruition, yeah, it's fucking childish.

So... You're free to vote for whomever you want, as long as it's the Democratic nominee?

[Elegiac]

So... You're free to vote for whomever you want, as long as it's the Democratic nominee?

You're free to vote for a ficus plant if you so choose, it doesn't make you any less childish.

[akris15]

So... You're free to vote for whomever you want, as long as it's the Democratic nominee?

Well basically there are three choice:

1. Trump which is basically against everything you stand for and if hes elected you get 0% of your platform and since this election has probably 20 years of Supreme Court on the line you are basically going to get 0% of your platform for the next 20 years.
2. Clinton which is closer to your policies than people think but the Bernie or Bust burnt that bridge this week by acting like spoiled babies on national tv so instead of 20% of your platform you get 0% of your platform.
3. Sit home or vote 3rd party. Either or because you get 0% of your platform since 3rd parties will never win at the national level in the current political meta.

[Kasierith]

Having the freedom to vote for the candidate of one's choice isn't childish, is it? Should that freedom not exist?

It's childish to act out emotionally in ways that are contradictory to your own self interest. If you are hostile towards a politician, and aren't an available demographic, than they have no reason to adopt positions on your behalf. And ultimately, if they are as tied to their ideals as they say, Clinton is the obvious choice.. her platform is so substantially closer to Sanders' than Trump's that there's really no point in trying to draw out all the reasons why. And for people with the "ya, stick it to the establishment dude!" opinion, ummm.... Trump made it very clear that Mike Pence is going to be in charge of domestic (and foreign) affairs. Mike Pence, a far right social conservative who is extremely anti abortion and LGBT rights, and is matched with the most intensely anti-progressive platform the Republican party has put forward to date. And if Pence is given the decision of who to put in the SCOTUS, well... reversing things like Roe vs Wade is written into their platform. Voting for Trump isn't escaping the establishment. All it is doing is giving it to the establishment with an ugly, loud, and annoying figurehead.

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So... You're free to vote for whomever you want, as long as it's the Democratic nominee?

Being free to do something and having that something be an intelligent thing to do are not mutually exclusive.

[akris15]

Being free to do something and having that something be an intelligent thing to do are not mutually exclusive.

I am free to run out in traffic and dance in it but it doesn't make it a wise decision

[Kasierith]

Well basically there are three choice:

2. Clinton which is closer to your policies than people think but the Bernie or Bust burnt that bridge this week by acting like spoiled babies on national tv so instead of 20% of your platform you get 0% of your platform.

Clinton's positions since before she was even a politician make it pretty clear that her interests in education reform are true, and not just a political convenience. Look through her history, not just the skimming from the DNC but actual detailed analyses of her positions throughout her professional life, and you'll see some consistent trends. Attempting to push for education reform is going to be a part of her platform independent of Sanders supporters, so they might as well go along.

And not to mention, it is basically a requirement for 2020 for her to attempt to establish a liberal justice. They get that as well.

[akris15]

And not to mention, it is basically a requirement for 2020 for her to attempt to establish a liberal justice. They get that as well.

I just wish people from the California delegation would understand this instead of acting like kids on tv

[antelope591]

Watched a part of Hillary's speech last night, still couldn't stand more than 5 minutes of listening to her talk.

Tell me about it...how is it possible to spend your whole life in politics and still sound so robotic....if Obama was running against Trump it would've been a beating of historic proportions. Every time she opens her mouth I become more convinced Bernie or even Biden would've been a much better choice.

[Kasierith]

Tell me about it...how is it possible to spend your whole life in politics and still sound so robotic....if Obama was running against Trump it would've been a beating of historic proportions. Every time she opens her mouth I become more convinced Bernie or even Biden would've been a much better choice.

Because ultimately speeches to large audiences are only a very small amount of what politicians do?

[NYC17]

So... You're free to vote for whomever you want, as long as it's the Democratic nominee?

Bernie chose the Democratic Party. He doesn't identify as a Democrat. What allegiance do they owe to him?

[Kasierith]

You're free to vote for a ficus plant if you so choose, it doesn't make you any less childish.

To be fair, a ficus plant will at least leave trade policies and alliances where they are instead of messing it up. And imagine how silly people would look trying to heckle it.

[Naxere]

I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way about you, dude.

It's a shame I'm not in the public eye and get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to speak (still waiting on those transcripts btw).

[akris15]

It's a shame I'm not in the public eye and get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to speak (still waiting on those transcripts btw).

Politicians have been doing this for ages. Hell just days after Reagan left the presidency he went to Japan and got paid millions of dollars (which was a much bigger deal 30 years ago) and the Republicans have basically canonized him. I don't understand why this is now a major issue.

[NYC17]

Politicians have been doing this for ages. Hell just days after Reagan left the presidency he went to Japan and got paid millions of dollars (which was a much bigger deal 30 years ago) and the Republicans have basically canonized him. I don't understand why this is now a major issue.

Right? This very weird obsession conservatives have had with Hillary for what feels like eternity, is borderline creepy.

[eschatological]

One thing I don't think the #BernieOrBust people realize: they're all from states that are so blue they could play at the local jazz club.

If 50% of Bernie supporters did the absolutely most harmful thing they could do to Hillary's campaign, and vote Trump, she'd still win Oregon and California. She'd probably still win Vermont (not that those electoral votes count for much). Who else is on the #BernieOrBust bandwagon? NY? Don't think so. Massachusetts, which Bernie won? Nope.

There's a divide between liberals and moderates in the Democrat Party, but there's an even further divide between liberals in the Democrat Party, and it's regional, between East and West coast. I've been odds with my west coast liberal friends for two decades, despite being a NY-raised, Boston educated liberal lawyer. I think it's probably because our liberalism has its roots in labor, and, until they started worshipping at the cult of Bernie, west coast liberals didn't give a shit about labor. Now they're still pretending to care about labor, but if they actually cared for labor - they'd vote for Hillary Clinton.