Chancellor Angela Merkel stands by her refugee policy

[Forogil]

Because refugee crises are not everlasting. The numbers of arriving refugees have been declining for some time, and now the vast majority of potential refugees have already left Syria. If the numbers of arriving refugees were still as they were, say, in early 2015, then the situation would be quite different, and I doubt the borders would be closed at this point.

The main inflow was late 2015 - and the Syrians were not the majority.
The terrorism in Iraq hasn't really decreased, the situation in Afghanistan has not improved (the German rules have changed to quick-reject many other nationalities in the top-10).

As for Syria it might be getting better - but still UNHCR reports 8.7 million internally displaced in Syria, 2.7M in Turkey, 1M in Lebanon, 0.65M in Jordan, and 0.25M in Iraq.

E.g. the ones on the Syrian/Jordan border would likely want to get to Europe (or anywhere else) - but they cannot, and after the EU-Turkey agreement there were suddenly days without any smuggling boats - as far as I recall that was within the same week; indicating that the closing of borders caused the asylum seekers to stop.

[May90]

The main inflow was late 2015 - and the Syrians were not the majority.
The terrorism in Iraq hasn't really decreased, the situation in Afghanistan has not improved (the German rules have changed to quick-reject many other nationalities in the top-10).

As for Syria it might be getting better - but still UNHCR reports 8.7 million internally displaced in Syria, 2.7M in Turkey, 1M in Lebanon, 0.65M in Jordan, and 0.25M in Iraq.

E.g. the ones on the Syrian/Jordan border would likely want to get to Europe (or anywhere else) - but they cannot, and after the EU-Turkey agreement there were suddenly days without any smuggling boats - as far as I recall that was within the same week; indicating that the closing of borders caused the asylum seekers to stop.

Thing is, while conflicts didn't get smaller, almost everyone who was able and willing to escape the warzone has done so at this point. Many people stay out of principle, some people live in safe areas, some people are actually fighting... Syrian/Iraqi/Afghani population is limited, after all.

[Forogil]

Thing is, while conflicts didn't get smaller, almost everyone who was able and willing to escape the warzone has done so at this point.

Many weren't from the conflicts last year - and the ones that were didn't stop once they left the warzone last year.

I can only assume you say that since the alternative is to admit that: border fences and the changes in Aegean sea actually stops refugees (as seems clearly obvious). However, admitting the reality means admitting two things: EU could have stopped the migrant-flow earlier last year (without breaking conventions more than they do now), and it seems clear that some will die due to this - e.g. at the Syrian border; while some EU-leaders still pride themselves of being welcoming.

Many people stay out of principle, some people live in safe areas, some people are actually fighting... Syrian/Iraqi/Afghani population is limited, after all.

And many stay away since they realize that they are not welcome.
Syrian: 8.7 million internally displaced in Syria, 2.7M in Turkey. Wonder why they stopped, could it be the fences and the EU-Turkey deal?

[May90]

Many weren't from the conflicts last year - and the ones that were didn't stop once they left the warzone last year.

I can only assume you say that since the alternative is to admit that: border fences and the changes in Aegean sea actually stops refugees (as seems clearly obvious). However, admitting the reality means admitting two things: EU could have stopped the migrant-flow earlier last year (without breaking conventions more than they do now), and it seems clear that some will die due to this - e.g. at the Syrian border; while some EU-leaders still pride themselves of being welcoming.

It does not matter where they were from: there was a huge refugee flow, and some people took the advantage of the situation to move to Europe. The fact is, when millions people are arriving, no walls will stop them, unless you make something like USSR border, which had a few lines of electric wires and gunmen placed everywhere - maintaining which would cost a fortune.

I mean, sure, you could prevent the refugees from entering by spending enormous percentages of budget. Where would they go after that, do you think? Do you think they would just peacefully return to Syria and leave their lives in peace? No, people in such situations get very desperate, and violent too.

And many stay away since they realize that they are not welcome.
Syrian: 8.7 million internally displaced in Syria, 2.7M in Turkey. Wonder why they stopped, could it be the fences and the EU-Turkey deal?

A large percentage of those who flee do so not because they know they are welcome, but because they have no other choice. Look at the numbers of refugees displaced, say, in Lebanon: these people apparently didn't go there for luxurious life. But, these countries do not accept them any more. And yet, they have to go somewhere? Where would they go?

[Forogil]

It does not matter where they were from: there was a huge refugee flow, and some people took the advantage of the situation to move to Europe. The fact is, when millions people are arriving, no walls will stop them, unless you make something like USSR border, which had a few lines of electric wires and gunmen placed everywhere - maintaining which would cost a fortune.

You seem be missing what is happening in eastern Europe - right now, and the Spain-Africa border - since a longer time.
Walls and fences stop people - not 100%, but sufficiently well that others don't try to cross them.

A large percentage of those who flee do so not because they know they are welcome, but because they have no other choice. Look at the numbers of refugees displaced, say, in Lebanon: these people apparently didn't go there for luxurious life. But, these countries do not accept them any more. And yet, they have to go somewhere? Where would they go?

They cannot go anywhere - which is the point; since Jordan closed the border, Lebanon as well - and Turkey seems to regularly close the border as well, and there is anyway no good way to go from Turkey - and then Greece-Macedonian border is closed, as the Hungarian one.

[Pannonian]

Otto von Bismarck must be rolling in his grave at how they managed to fuck up his life's work.

You mean the guy who manipulated the media to start a war with france just to get a patriotic surge so he could unite the german states?

[Theinquisition]

It does not matter where they were from: there was a huge refugee flow, and some people took the advantage of the situation to move to Europe. The fact is, when millions people are arriving, no walls will stop them, unless you make something like USSR border, which had a few lines of electric wires and gunmen placed everywhere - maintaining which would cost a fortune.

I mean, sure, you could prevent the refugees from entering by spending enormous percentages of budget. Where would they go after that, do you think? Do you think they would just peacefully return to Syria and leave their lives in peace? No, people in such situations get very desperate, and violent too.


A large percentage of those who flee do so not because they know they are welcome, but because they have no other choice. Look at the numbers of refugees displaced, say, in Lebanon: these people apparently didn't go there for luxurious life. But, these countries do not accept them any more. And yet, they have to go somewhere? Where would they go?

you don't have to spend billions on border security. the solution is simple, refuse any state aid for refugees. No welfare, no food subsidies, no work visas, no anything. Once they get somewhere and realize that they are absolutely on their own, the problem will solve itself.

[Deleted]

you don't have to spend billions on border security. the solution is simple, refuse any state aid for refugees. No welfare, no food subsidies, no work visas, no anything. Once they get somewhere and realize that they are absolutely on their own, the problem will solve itself.

Good job, you "solved" the refugee problem by effectively condemning millions of people to starvation/disease/hypothermia. Not only that, but you have drastically increased the chances for crime to happen; fed anti-western feelings, which would leave to even more radicalization, not only from refugees or immigrant populations but also from people who will never agree with your politics (meaning, pretty much the entire political spectrum, barring the extreme-right); created all the conditions for black markets and human-trafficking networks to emerge, increased public administration corruption and affected very negatively the image that your country has among the international community.

You know, the thing with refugee aid is not only that it is the right thing to do. It is also the only reasonable political option. It pays to not be an asshole. Anything else is populist delirium.

[PizzaSHARK]

Approval rating isn't the same thing as an election.

I understand that, but it essentially functions as "if you had to vote RIGHT NOW, would you vote for this person?" You can't vote for more than one person, which means 45% is rather high unless you have exactly one opponent and they own the other 55%.

Unless they're specifically phrasing the question as "do you agree with this ONE SPECIFIC THING this person did?" But that's not how people use approval rating, or how they talk about it.

[Sorshen]

you don't have to spend billions on border security. the solution is simple, refuse any state aid for refugees. No welfare, no food subsidies, no work visas, no anything. Once they get somewhere and realize that they are absolutely on their own, the problem will solve itself.

It doesn't work that way. You can't open your door and then lock them in the basement.

[Theinquisition]

Good job, you "solved" the refugee problem by effectively condemning millions of people to starvation/disease/hypothermia. Not only that, but you have drastically increased the chances for crime to happen; fed anti-western feelings, which would leave to even more radicalization, not only from refugees or immigrant populations but also from people who will never agree with your politics (meaning, pretty much the entire political spectrum, barring the extreme-right); created all the conditions for black markets and human-trafficking networks to emerge, increased public administration corruption and affected very negatively the image that your country has among the international community.

You know, the thing with refugee aid is not only that it is the right thing to do. It is also the only reasonable political option. It pays to not be an asshole. Anything else is populist delirium.

A gov't is beholden to no one else but its own people, no gov't is obligated to provide, at a cost of its taxpayers, sustenance to non-citizens. No one is forcing people to cross into another country, and they especially aren't being forced to cross over several countries that are not involved in a conflict to another country with more generous benefits.

I don't think it's unreasonable to place some strict measures to discourage refugee migration. Given the explosion of crime, terrorist attacks, and social strife they have brought with them, people are going to get more and more pissed off until something is done. The longer that they Euro countries wait, the worse the blowback will be.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't work that way. You can't open your door and then lock them in the basement.

The basement isn't locked, you're just not giving them free food.

What I don't get is why EU citizens are more than happy to shell out tax dollars on supporting people who are creating nothing but problems in your countries. It's one thing if like minded charitiable people get tighter to donate money and time to help, but why FORCE people who are pissed off at the rise in crime and terrorist attacks to pay for it?

[Miyagie]

A gov't is beholden to no one else but its own people, no gov't is obligated to provide, at a cost of its taxpayers, sustenance to non-citizens. No one is forcing people to cross into another country, and they especially aren't being forced to cross over several countries that are not involved in a conflict to another country with more generous benefits.

I don't think it's unreasonable to place some strict measures to discourage refugee migration. Given the explosion of crime, terrorist attacks, and social strife they have brought with them, people are going to get more and more pissed off until something is done. The longer that they Euro countries wait, the worse the blowback will be.

What explosion of crime ? 99,9% of all crimes in the EU are done by the native.
Can you link pls a terrorist attack done by refugees ?

[Theinquisition]

What explosion of crime ? 99,9% of all crimes in the EU are done by the native.
Can you link pls a terrorist attack done by refugees ?

So the studies showing that violent crime going up by multiple % points by Foreigners is made up?

heres one report

http://www.meforum.org/6031/migrants-high-crime-germany

As far as refugees go, it's commonly known that ISIS has been able to slip operatives into Europe under the guise of being refugees. Heres one example http://newobserveronline.com/germany...rorist-attack/

I mean, hey do what you want, its your country. I know If I was over there I would be pretty pissed

[Miyagie]

So the studies showing that violent crime going up by multiple % points by Foreigners is made up?

heres one report

http://www.meforum.org/6031/migrants-high-crime-germany

As far as refugees go, it's commonly known that ISIS has been able to slip operatives into Europe under the guise of being refugees. Heres one example http://newobserveronline.com/germany...rorist-attack/

I mean, hey do what you want, its your country. I know If I was over there I would be pretty pissed

This numbers looks fake and i never heared about this "news" sites.

[May90]

You seem be missing what is happening in eastern Europe - right now, and the Spain-Africa border - since a longer time.
Walls and fences stop people - not 100%, but sufficiently well that others don't try to cross them.

No, people just don't go to those countries, because they are lousy for living as a refugee. Same reason as why nobody willingly stops in Turkey, and everybody moves further to the north: google a bit what kind of conditions refugees in Turkey live in - and you will understand.

They cannot go anywhere - which is the point; since Jordan closed the border, Lebanon as well - and Turkey seems to regularly close the border as well, and there is anyway no good way to go from Turkey - and then Greece-Macedonian border is closed, as the Hungarian one.

So, if they cannot go anywhere and are forced to stay in Syria - what do you think they will do, pray for Allah to save them? I don't think so. Out of desperation (and not because they sympathize with terrorists) they will turn to fighting for ISIS. You will have to deal with a force consisting of millions desperate people, that will do anything they need to assure they and their families survive. Current ISIS will be a joke, compared to what will grow out of it, and those few terrorist attacks in Europe you've seen recently will be nothing, compared to what will erupt.

One thing you folks don't understand is not that Merkel has let refugees in out of her kind heart: there is no acting on feelings in politics. She has let them in, because the alternatives were less predictable and had a potential to lead to a much worse outcome. Did she make a mistake? Perhaps. All I'm saying is, this situation is much more complicated than forum folks tend to imagine. There is no simple solution.

you don't have to spend billions on border security. the solution is simple, refuse any state aid for refugees. No welfare, no food subsidies, no work visas, no anything. Once they get somewhere and realize that they are absolutely on their own, the problem will solve itself.

Not exactly this, but yes, this is what I've been saying all time long: rather than giving them stuff for free, invest in them. Give them a loan, provide them with opportunities to learn the language and the culture, integrate, find a job - then they will work for you. Everybody got what they needed: refugees got a shelter, and the government got an extra labor.

Problem is, Europe doesn't work like that. It is the US' path. European systems are based around a different system of values, and something like this just won't find support among people, even those who do not want to pay for refugees.

[Tennis]

Always makes me laugh when cucks casually title her "Chancellor", it's the same shit as when people called Hitler "Führer". A nation of castrated weaklings such as Germany will always remain dependant on dictators. But you know what, it's fine that you want to erase yourself from history, I'm actually glad you are doing it. But do you really have to enforce your suicidal ways on rest of the continent?

Lmao. You basically have no credibility when you're throwing out the word cuck in every post.

[purebalance]

Typical left wing response cry the R word............

Firstly Islam is not a race, it is a religion therefore no-one is being racist here at all.

I am suggesting that you should not ignore the overwhelming fact that the ideology behind these attacks is religiously motivated, have a look at this below:

11 Sep 2001 United States 2993 8900 crashing of hijacked planes into World Trade Center, New York City, New York, Pentagon in Alexandria, Virginia, and site in Pennsylvania, USA
26-30 Jul 2009 Maiduguri, Borno, Nigeria 780 ? armed attack on city by Boko Haram
3-4 Jan 2015 Baga and Doro Gowon, Nigeria 700? 300? armed attack and arson of villages by Boko Haram
14 Aug 2007 Iraq 520 1500 multiple car bombings in Al-Adnaniyah and Al-Qataniyah
20 Aug 1978 Abadan, Iran 477 10 arson of theater
1-3 Sep 2004 Beslan, North Ossetia, Russia 372 747 hostage taking at school (includes 35 terrorists killed)
23 Jun 1985 multiple 331 4 mid-air bombings of Air India flight off Cork, Ireland, killing 329; bomb intended for second Air India flight exploded in Narita Airport, Japan, killing 2 and injuring 4
12 Mar 1993 Mumbai (Bombay), India 317 1400 15 bombings throughout city
7 May 2014 Gamboru Ngala, Nigeria 310 ? armed attack on market, after which many buildings were set on fire
7 Aug 1998 multiple 303 4954 truck bomb explodes outside U.S. embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, destroying adjacent office building; 244 killed, 4,877 injured; within five minutes, a truck bomb explodes outside U.S. embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania; 12 killed
23 Oct 1983 Beirut, Lebanon 301 161 simultaneous truck bombings of U.S. Marine and French barracks
3 Jul 2016 Baghdad, Iraq 292 225 truck bombing in market area, setting fire to crowded shopping mall
22 Sep 1997 Ben Talha, Algeria 277 ? armed attack
30 Dec 1997 Ami Moussa, Algeria 272 ? armed attack
21 Dec 1988 Lockerbie, Scotland, United Kingdom 270 12 mid-air bombing of Pan Am flight over Lockerbie, Scotland
25 Nov 1940 Haifa, British Palestine 267 172 bombing and sinking of ship carrying Jewish immigrants
20 Nov-5 Dec 1979 Mecca, Saudi Arabia 240 600 hostage taking at Grand Mosque (includes 87 terrorists killed)
21 Feb 2004 Uganda 239 60 armed attack and arson at refugee camp
29 Aug 1997 Algeria 238 ? attacks at Sidi Moussa and Hais Rais
31 Oct 2015 Sinai, Egypt 224 0 apparent mid-air bombing of Russian Airbus over Sinai after departing Sharm el-Sheikh airport; plane broke apart in midair
16 Mar 2014 Kaduna, Nigeria 219 ? armed attacks on villages of Ungwar Sankwai, Ungwar Gata, and Chenshyi
31 Oct 1999 Atlantic Ocean, Massachusetts, United States 217 0 intentional crash of Egypt Air flight off Nantucket Island by copilot
11 Jul 2006 Mumbai, India 209 714 seven bombings on commuter trains
12 Oct 2002 Kuta, Indonesia 202 350 car bombing outside nightclub
23 Nov 2006 Baghdad, Iraq 202 260 five car bombings and two mortar attacks in Sadr City, Baghdad
18 Apr 2007 Baghdad, Iraq 193 197 multiple bombings
11 Mar 2004 Madrid, Spain 191 1876 bombings of four trains
24 Dec 2008 Doroma, Orientale, DR Congo 189 0 armed attack on village
2 Mar 2004 Iraq 188 652 suicide bombings at shrines in Karbala and Kadhimiya
22 Apr 2013 Baga, Nigeria 187 77 Boko Haram attack on village
23 May 2016 Jableh and Tartus, Syria 184 200 multiple bombings
4 Jan 1998 Algeria 182 ? attacks at Had Chekala, Remka, and Ain Tarik, Algeria
14 Sep 2005 Baghdad, Iraq 182 679 multiple suicide bombings and shooting attacks
7 Jul 2007 Armili, Iraq 182 270 multiple suicide truck bombings in Armili and area, Iraq
20 Jan 2012 Kano, Nigeria 178 50 multiple bombings and gun attacks
26-29 Nov 2008 Mumbai, India 174 370 multiple shooting and grenade attacks and hostage takings (includes 9 terrorists killed)
19 Sep 1989 Bilma, Niger 171 0 mid-air bombing of French UTA flight near Bilma
23-26 Oct 2002 Moscow, Russia 170 656 hostage taking and attempted rescue in theater (includes 41 terrorists killed)

That is a list of the most deadly terror attacks in the last few decades, have a guess in whose name they were carried out in...........yep Islam.

No one civilized wants to slaughter anyone(clearly except the above extremists), in fact i would put a months wages on most people being perfectly fine with living next door to a muslim, for we as western society have as a whole displayed nothing but tolerance whilst welcoming them into our country.

What i do recognize however is the intolerance to a vast amount of these imigrants, who refuse to learn to speak our language, will not integrate with our society/way of life, indeed demand that we change our laws to suit their religion, then take to the streets destroying and looting when we do not acquiesce to their demands. But instead of looking out for each other we decide to shout "racist" at anyone who plucks up enough courage to actually highlight the root of the problem. To those people i say shame on you, have you not the balls to stand up for your own values???

Its also funny you should make sideways comments to the holocaust, because the whole reason Germany is in so much shit right now, is that it as a country feels that it cannot ever make a justifiable strong stance against any group of people, as wankers like you always keep throwing that back in their face. A tragedy that it was, we are living in the here and now 2016 not 1945.

Just to reiterate, stop ignoring the elephant in the room, religion has no basis in modern western society, it was born out of an era where mankind was to ignorant to accept that he as an individual is in control of his own destiny, not some white bearded father figure waggling his finger at you from afar............

And then you'll have people come back and somehow claim that "Christianity has committed more acts of terrorism on U.S. soil" but then cite things like Oklahoma City as being a Christian inspired attack simply because he was a Christian.

[Theinquisition]

This numbers looks fake and i never heared about this "news" sites.

"I can't dispute the information, so ima stick my fingers in my ears and shout"

[purebalance]

What explosion of crime ? 99,9% of all crimes in the EU are done by the native.
Can you link pls a terrorist attack done by refugees ?

Typical response when you don't like the truth.

[Theinquisition]

And then you'll have people come back and somehow claim that "Christianity has committed more acts of terrorism on U.S. soil" but then cite things like Oklahoma City as being a Christian inspired attack simply because he was a Christian.

I know right.

The left doesn't get the difference.

Timmy Mc didn't commit is crime for religion, he did it for his politics. That is in contrast to the majority of Terror attacks world wide.