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    A scientist is building 'immortal' plasma rockets to send humans to Mars

    http://www.businessinsider.com/self-...rockets-2016-7

    Nearly 50 years after landing on the moon, mankind has now set its sights on sending the first humans to Mars.

    The moon trip took three days; a Mars trip will likely take most of a year. The difference is in more than just time.

    We'll need many more supplies for the trip itself, and when we get to the Red Planet, we're going to need to set up camp and stay for a while.

    Carrying all this material will require a revolutionary rocket technology.




    The Saturn V was the largest rocket ever built. It consumed an enormous amount of fuel in explosive chemical reactions that propelled the Apollo spacecraft into orbit.

    After reaching orbit, Apollo ejected the empty fuel tanks and turned on its own chemical rockets that used even more fuel to get to the moon.

    It took nearly a million gallons of various fuels just to send a few people on a day trip to our nearest extraterrestrial body.

    So how could we send a settlement to Mars, which is more than 100 times farther away than the moon? The Saturn-Apollo combination could deliver only the mass equivalent of one railroad boxcar to the moon; it would take dozens of those rockets just to build a small house on Mars.

    Sadly, there are no alternatives for the "chemical" launch rocket; only powerful chemical explosions can provide enough force to overcome Earth's gravity. But once in space, a new fuel-efficient rocket technology can take over: plasma rockets.

    The "electric vehicles" of space

    Plasma rockets are a modern technology that transforms fuel into a hot soup of electrically charged particles, known as plasma, and ejects it to push a spacecraft. Using plasma rockets instead of the traditional chemical rockets can reduce total in-space fuel usage by 90 percent.

    That means we could deliver 10 times the amount of cargo using the same fuel mass. NASA mission planners are already looking into using plasma rocket transport vehicles for ferrying cargo between Earth and Mars.

    The main downside to plasma rockets is their low thrust. Thrust is a measure of how strong a "push" the rocket can supply to the spacecraft. The most powerful plasma rocket flown in space, called a Hall thruster, would produce only enough thrust to lift a piece of paper against Earth's gravity. Believe it or not, a Hall thruster would take many years of continuous pushing to reach Mars.

    But don't worry, weak thrust is not a deal breaker. Thanks to its revolutionary fuel efficiency, plasma rockets have enabled NASA to perform missions that would otherwise not be possible with chemical rockets.

    Just recently, the Dawn mission demonstrated the potential of plasma rockets by becoming the first spacecraft to orbit two different extraterrestrial bodies.

    While the future of plasma rockets is bright, the technology still has unsolved problems. For example, what's going to happen to a thruster that runs for the many years it takes to perform round-trip cargo missions to Mars? Most likely, it'll break.

    That's where my research comes in. I need to find out how to make plasma rockets immortal.






    Understanding plasma rockets

    To do this, we need to understand how a plasma rocket works. The rocket creates a plasma by injecting electrical energy into a gaseous fuel, stripping negatively charged electrons from the positively charged ions. The ions are then shot out the back of the rocket, pushing the spacecraft forward.

    Unfortunately, all that energy in plasma does more than propel spaceships — it wants to destroy any material it comes into contact with. Electric forces from the negatively charged walls cause the ions to slam into the wall at very high speeds.

    These collisions break atoms off the wall, slowly weakening it over time. Eventually, enough ions hit the wall that the entire wall breaks, the thruster stops functioning and your spacecraft is now stuck in space.

    It's not enough to use tougher materials to withstand the bombardment: There will always be some amount of damage regardless of how strong the material is. We need a clever way of manipulating the plasma, and the wall material, to avoid damage.

    A self-healing wall

    Wouldn't it be great if the chamber wall could repair itself? It turns out there are two physical effects that can allow this to happen.

    The first is known as ballistic deposition and is present in materials with microscopic surface variations, like spikes or columns. When an ion hits the wall, a piece of these microfeatures that breaks off can fly in any direction.

    Some of these pieces will hit nearby protruding parts of the surface and stick, leaving the wall effectively undamaged. However, there will always be atoms that fly away from the wall and are lost forever.

    The second phenomenon is less intuitive and depends on the plasma conditions. Imagine the same scenario where the wall particle breaks off and flies into the plasma. However, instead of being lost forever, the particle suddenly turns around and goes straight back to the wall.

    This is similar to how a baseball tossed straight up into the air turns around and drops back to your hand. With the baseball, gravity stops the ball from going up any higher and pulls it back down to the ground. In a thruster, it's the electric force between the negatively charged wall and the wall particle itself.

    It comes off neutrally charged, but can lose its electron in the plasma, becoming positively charged. The result is that the particle is pulled back toward the wall, in a phenomenon known as plasma redeposition. This process can be controlled by changing the density and temperature of the plasma.

    self healing wall
    Illustration of three possible scenarios for a wall atom that comes off: 1) it’s lost forever, 2) it intercepts a wall and deposits or 3) it becomes ionized and is accelerated by electric forces to deposit on the wall. Gary Li (CC BY-ND 4.0


    Testing different materials

    Here at UCLA, I create a plasma and smash it into microfeatured materials, to measure the effects of ballistic deposition and plasma redeposition. Remember, ballistic deposition depends on the wall's surface structures, while plasma redeposition depends on the plasma. For my initial study, I adjusted the plasma conditions so there was no plasma redeposition, and only ballistic deposition occurred.

    Then I turned my attention from the plasma to the wall. The first microfeatured sample I tested had its damage reduced by 20 percent. By improving the design of the microfeatures, the damage can be reduced even further, potentially as much as 50 percent.

    purple plasma
    Sample materials being assessed in the UCLA Plasma-interactions test facility. Gary Li (CC BY-ND 4.0)


    Such a material on a thruster could make the difference between getting to Mars and getting stuck halfway. The next step is to include the effects of plasma redeposition and to determine whether a truly immortal wall can be achieved.

    As plasma thrusters become ever more powerful, they become more able to damage their own walls, too. That increases the importance of a self-healing wall. My ultimate goal is to design a thruster using advanced materials that can last 10 times as long as any Mars mission requirement, making it effectively immortal.

    An immortal wall would solve this problem of thruster failure, and allow us to ferry the cargo we need to begin building mankind's first outpost on Mars.

  2. #2
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    sounds interesting. The problem is of course self sustaining resources, and how they would build bubble cities and survive it. If they managed to, they would have to constantly send resources from earth to mars to sustain them, and if anything major fucks up, they are outright screwed.

    Mars will never have a sustainable atmosphere for life, we might as well build bubble cities under the ocean.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    sounds interesting. The problem is of course self sustaining resources, and how they would build bubble cities and survive it. If they managed to, they would have to constantly send resources from earth to mars to sustain them, and if anything major fucks up, they are outright screwed.

    Mars will never have a sustainable atmosphere for life, we might as well build bubble cities under the ocean.
    See, I've always thought it would be a better idea to build the vast majority of any colonies underground. We have flexible LED tech, so we can simulate a landscape, or a sky.

    Building underground would be easier to insulate against the insane cold, and protect against radiation. It would also require less materials.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Building underground would be easier to insulate against the insane cold, and protect against radiation. It would also require less materials.
    Excavation would require a large amount of energy though; not to say your other points aren't correct. I think we should not really be pushing to put anything on Mars until we can sustain something on the moon.


    To the OP, I wonder if they should be doing this out of atmosphere and gravity. Space may be mostly empty, but it is very energetic, and I would suppose the types of material response would react to those conditions and alter the results. It is pretty cool tech though. I wonder if there are any images of the before and after floating around the web?

  5. #5
    In seriousness: Self-healing materials definitely sound like another great thing to come out of NASA with potential earthly applications, like bulletproof vests.

    In jest: But how are we supposed to land on Mars when it's so teeny-tiny? :B We couldn't even land on the moon, it was all a hoax! We would've crashed into the firmament around our flat earth!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  6. #6
    Now I thought hall thrusters were ion thrusters which have serious limitations on their power output.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Mars will never have a sustainable atmosphere for life, we might as well build bubble cities under the ocean.
    Yes!!



    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    Building underground would be easier to insulate against the insane cold, and protect against radiation. It would also require less materials.
    Double yes!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Yes!!





    Double yes!!

    I was thinking more along the lines of gigantic underground cities. Line the roof with flexible HD LED's and have it set to display the skyline from directly above. Seems easier than building a bubble colony.

  9. #9
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    sounds interesting. The problem is of course self sustaining resources, and how they would build bubble cities and survive it. If they managed to, they would have to constantly send resources from earth to mars to sustain them, and if anything major fucks up, they are outright screwed.

    Mars will never have a sustainable atmosphere for life, we might as well build bubble cities under the ocean.
    Never say never. Warming mirrors in orbit, a constant rain of frozen ice from orbit by gathering robots, the right kind of gas-producing bacteria, and massive electro-magnets to form a protective barrier against radiation could very well make Mars habitable in as little as five hundred years.

  10. #10
    I need @Skroe to come in and talk about how this rocket and Mars tech. Could spend the whole day reading that shit.

    Also, Sky colonies in Venus are the way to go. Or underground colonies in Mars already seen massive holes.

    Also, on a planet of 8 billion people . We can easily find someone willing to make a one way trip to Mars. Seems they are trying to fix a problem that doesn't really exist. Or at least doesn't need to be solved right now. Let the plasma rocket break the ship as it will,as long as we can make it last long enough to get there.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    The question is... why would anyone go to mars?

  12. #12
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    They will need a very good psychologist. I always fear those tight confined spaces will send people into a murder frenzy. It can get awfully lonely all the way out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    On MMO-C we learn that Anti-Fascism is locking arms with corporations, the State Department and agreeing with the CIA, But opposing the CIA and corporate America, and thinking Jews have a right to buy land and can expect tenants to pay rent THAT is ultra-Fash Nazism. Bellingcat is an MI6/CIA cut out. Clyburn Truther.

  13. #13
    Electric vehicles in space...

    So basically Priuses strapped to rockets?

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Greevir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    The question is... why would anyone go to mars?
    Same reason humans do anything. Because we can.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greevir View Post
    Same reason humans do anything. Because we can.
    Yup this is why humans deserve nothing as soon as you dig into social science and philosophy and only can turn into a misanthrope. They don't even want it. It's just they can. Wasted all potential.

  16. #16
    I really hope I live long enough to see us set up a permanent colony on Mars. The future is going to be extraordinary.


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    Yup this is why humans deserve nothing as soon as you dig into social science and philosophy and only can turn into a misanthrope. They don't even want it. It's just they can. Wasted all potential.
    Pushing the boundary of the possible is the goal, every step further we take into the "impossible" is an achievement.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    The question is... why would anyone go to mars?
    Just think of how much money they could make by selling space rocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    In seriousness: Self-healing materials definitely sound like another great thing to come out of NASA with potential earthly applications, like bulletproof vests.

    In jest: But how are we supposed to land on Mars when it's so teeny-tiny? :B We couldn't even land on the moon, it was all a hoax! We would've crashed into the firmament around our flat earth!
    Why would you not only deliberately try to bring up a religious topic in a thread where one didn't yet exist, but also take an unnecessary cheap shot at religion as well?

    This thread is about rockets and space travel. Deliberately bringing up topics that you know are controversial, that are also against the rules, is just petty. You're basically just looking for an excuse to flame.
    “Humanism means that the man is the measure of all things...But it is not only that man must start from himself in the area of knowledge and learning, but any value system must come arbitrarily from man himself by arbitrary choice.” - Francis A. Schaeffer

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    Why would you not only deliberately try to bring up a religious topic in a thread where one didn't yet exist, but also take an unnecessary cheap shot at religion as well?

    This thread is about rockets and space travel. Deliberately bringing up topics that you know are controversial, that are also against the rules, is just petty. You're basically just looking for an excuse to flame.
    An extreme minority of religious people hold that the Earth is flat, and most of those are probably people taking the piss. So in a sense, responding to a jab at flat earthers by interpreting it as a jab at religion is sort of insulting to reasonable religious people everywhere, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorial View Post
    Pushing the boundary of the possible is the goal, every step further we take into the "impossible" is an achievement.
    That's why some people thought to promote Nietzsche...

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