1. #3121
    Mhmm, it's a very small difference for 2-target, so with human error CC isn't awful. Gets progressively worse the more adds / longer lived they are for 3+

  2. #3122
    Did they ever fix the range issues of CC?


    Can it reasonably hit two targets now if they aren't on top of each other?

  3. #3123
    Last I played, no. Glaring downfall of the talent. Requires the short range + facing requirements.

  4. #3124
    I feel like no. But that's literally the impression I get from using it since forever. Actual range I have no idea.
    Science the shit out of it!

  5. #3125
    chaos cleaves radius is fucking garbo and i've posted about it several times. they aren't changing it afaik

  6. #3126
    Brewmaster Mefistophelis's Avatar
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    Demon Hunters are a simpler class so there won't be such a huge gap between the best and worst players.
    How do you feel about the above statement in the Q&A session? I believe that Havoc is not a simple spec, mostly due to the awesome mechanical talents that make it more than the "ermagerd two buttens" people have been complaining about.

    Since I've been spending a lot of time in Beta, trying to master Demon Blades and Momentum, I can safely say Havoc is the most complex out of the DPS specs I've personally played in Beta.
    I come across a quiet river, that wonders through the trees.
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    In resignation to the forest, that's held me for so long.
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  7. #3127
    Quote Originally Posted by Mefistophelis View Post
    How do you feel about the above statement in the Q&A session? I believe that Havoc is not a simple spec, mostly due to the awesome mechanical talents that make it more than the "ermagerd two buttens" people have been complaining about.

    Since I've been spending a lot of time in Beta, trying to master Demon Blades and Momentum, I can safely say Havoc is the most complex out of the DPS specs I've personally played in Beta.
    I think they were simply trying to avoid the Momentum shit show.

    Also started trying to master momentum, and i absolutely love it. Seriously.
    Science the shit out of it!

  8. #3128
    Quote Originally Posted by Mefistophelis View Post
    How do you feel about the above statement in the Q&A session? I believe that Havoc is not a simple spec, mostly due to the awesome mechanical talents that make it more than the "ermagerd two buttens" people have been complaining about.

    Since I've been spending a lot of time in Beta, trying to master Demon Blades and Momentum, I can safely say Havoc is the most complex out of the DPS specs I've personally played in Beta.
    DPS rotations are pretty simple across the board in Legion, but Momentum and Fel Rush use in general definitely adds a layer of difficulty others don't have to manage.

  9. #3129
    Quote Originally Posted by Mefistophelis View Post
    How do you feel about the above statement in the Q&A session? I believe that Havoc is not a simple spec, mostly due to the awesome mechanical talents that make it more than the "ermagerd two buttens" people have been complaining about.

    Since I've been spending a lot of time in Beta, trying to master Demon Blades and Momentum, I can safely say Havoc is the most complex out of the DPS specs I've personally played in Beta.
    them saying that kind of makes you think they will nerf momentum, because the momentum mechanic will create one of the largest good to bad player discrepancies that we have had.
    I dont play in a hardcore no-lifer guild, but in a 2 days a week "hardcore" mythic guild.

  10. #3130
    Quote Originally Posted by Mefistophelis View Post
    How do you feel about the above statement in the Q&A session? I believe that Havoc is not a simple spec, mostly due to the awesome mechanical talents that make it more than the "ermagerd two buttens" people have been complaining about.

    Since I've been spending a lot of time in Beta, trying to master Demon Blades and Momentum, I can safely say Havoc is the most complex out of the DPS specs I've personally played in Beta.
    I think it was VERY carefully worded, they can defend it by saying the BASE spec without the interesting talents is simple, its a builder spender that does ok damage-where i think they slipped up was the second part, i think we will see a big gap in the higher skilled players using momentum, fel mastery and such like a lot of other classes....TL;DR-it was a very PR friendly answer
    Quote Originally Posted by Butosai View Post
    them saying that kind of makes you think they will nerf momentum, because the momentum mechanic will create one of the largest good to bad player discrepancies that we have had.
    I dont think so, i think what will happen when the gap is discovered is blizz will be like "well we didnt like the idea of there being only a small gap and were working to fix that" Not saying blizz doesnt listen or know what they are doing just....its not worth the bad PR to nerf some people's favorite part of the class to line up with something they said.

  11. #3131
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    I think they will either nerf momentum or buff the timer of it.

    Reason for that, imo, is because Blizzard dislikes to make abilities that relies on the pc or connection of their users, wich Momentum does on ms. Not everyone will be able to play at 10 or 40 ms, some plebs like me, will have to deal with it 160-200 ms.

  12. #3132
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihal View Post
    I think they will either nerf momentum or buff the timer of it.

    Reason for that, imo, is because Blizzard dislikes to make abilities that relies on the pc or connection of their users, wich Momentum does on ms. Not everyone will be able to play at 10 or 40 ms, some plebs like me, will have to deal with it 160-200 ms.
    You're probably playing in the wrong servers if that's the issue.

    I've that MS to American servers from EU.

    And I don't think Blizzard should remove a talent because it relies on skill, at all.

  13. #3133
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihal View Post
    I think they will either nerf momentum or buff the timer of it.

    Reason for that, imo, is because Blizzard dislikes to make abilities that relies on the pc or connection of their users, wich Momentum does on ms. Not everyone will be able to play at 10 or 40 ms, some plebs like me, will have to deal with it 160-200 ms.
    I could see them perhaps reducing the % bonus and increasing the duration slightly or making it affect your next ability after casting by a slightly higher %.

    That's if they want to change it at all, though I wouldn't be surprised if they do. Knowing Blizzard, I'm not sure they'd be happy with it being the prevalent style/rotation for single target DPS.
    Last edited by Qck; 2016-07-30 at 10:58 AM.

  14. #3134
    Deleted
    the statement about demon hunters being simpler is very true.

    momentum is not hard to master. it is very simple to know if where you are going to FR or VR to a dangerous spot.

    but i am a mythic raider so i understand the complexity as most of this forum are LFR players.

    Momentum will likely receive a nerf making Nemesis the go to option soon after raids are released due to complaints.

  15. #3135
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    the statement about demon hunters being simpler is very true.

    momentum is not hard to master. it is very simple to know if where you are going to FR or VR to a dangerous spot.

    but i am a mythic raider so i understand the complexity as most of this forum are LFR players.

    Momentum will likely receive a nerf making Nemesis the go to option soon after raids are released due to complaints.
    If that happens I will wonder why do harder to play talents exist if they bring the same performance as easier to play ones.

    There's really no incentive to use harder talents if you make them perform exactly the same.

    I've a lot of fun playing Momentum, but I know it is way harder to use than Nemesis. If I knew both Nemesis and Momentum perform the same in Mythic Raiding environment I wouldn't be using Momentum ever.

    If you can't play a class in its hardest is fine, but you shouldn't hurt the rest that can.

    Anyway, if you don't like the movement playstyle you shouldn't be playing DH at all, imho.
    Last edited by Shirofune; 2016-07-30 at 01:33 PM.

  16. #3136
    Lol these last 2 posts, OpieOP.

    There can be a difference between liking a mobile playstyle and liking a mobile playstyle where you have to do the mobile stuff to keep up a 4 sec dmg boost/gain resource ( for example I can like ww monks cause they are mobile and you can keep moving about during a fight but I don't have to pull off gimmicks for a 4 sec dmg buff/resource gain )

    Pretty nearsighted to say '' you better like momentum or gtfo this class '', but then again this is the MMO-Champ forum, FeelsBadMan.

  17. #3137
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirofune View Post
    If that happens I will wonder why do harder to play talents exist if they bring the same performance as easier to play ones.

    There's really no incentive to use harder talents if you make them perform exactly the same.

    I've a lot of fun playing Momentum, but I know it is way harder to use than Nemesis. If I knew both Nemesis and Momentum perform the same in Mythic Raiding environment I wouldn't be using Momentum ever.

    If you can't play a class in its hardest is fine, but you shouldn't hurt the rest that can.

    Anyway, if you don't like the movement playstyle you shouldn't be playing DH at all, imho.

    The thing is, Momentum has lots of incentive to be used, even if it was behind on single target.

    It couples well with Fel Mastery, which afaik, is currently the best L99 talent by some margin. It's better on cleave, it's better on AoE, it's better for target switching, it's better for general use like clearing trash, dungeons and world questing. The talent is currently the best in almost every situation imaginable, with the only drawbacks being it's kinda awkward to play on bosses and that you have to use your primary movement abilities for DPS.

    At the end of the day, what do you really want? To do more way more DPS than scrubs who don't understand/can't mechanically keep up with the playstyle? You're going to do that anyway, regardless of how hard the class is to play. My main for 11 years has been Mage, and it's never been the most complex class ever - yet at the top of the rankings you consistently see the same players because they are just flat out better at the game.

    If you enjoy the playstyle more, and you're comfortable with it, does it really need to also be significantly better in almost every realistic situation for you to play it?

    Thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised to see a change to Fel Mastery where it only grants it's bonus damage/fury if it hits multiple targets to discourage using the ability on single targets. Regardless, it's going to be interesting to see if Blizzard neuter the style completely or stick with it.

  18. #3138
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shirofune View Post
    If that happens I will wonder why do harder to play talents exist if they bring the same performance as easier to play ones.

    There's really no incentive to use harder talents if you make them perform exactly the same.

    I've a lot of fun playing Momentum, but I know it is way harder to use than Nemesis. If I knew both Nemesis and Momentum perform the same in Mythic Raiding environment I wouldn't be using Momentum ever.

    If you can't play a class in its hardest is fine, but you shouldn't hurt the rest that can.

    Anyway, if you don't like the movement playstyle you shouldn't be playing DH at all, imho.
    ye i agree, people forget wow is a game, there isnt just raid/dungeon difficulties, there are class difficulties. if you want the easier style, its only fair to not be performing as good as someone who has mastered the hardest style.

    Unfortunately Blizz have showin in the past they tend to cater to the needs of players who want an easier time.

  19. #3139
    Quote Originally Posted by FluFF View Post
    Lol these last 2 posts, OpieOP.

    There can be a difference between liking a mobile playstyle and liking a mobile playstyle where you have to do the mobile stuff to keep up a 4 sec dmg boost/gain resource ( for example I can like ww monks cause they are mobile and you can keep moving about during a fight but I don't have to pull off gimmicks for a 4 sec dmg buff/resource gain )

    Pretty nearsighted to say '' you better like momentum or gtfo this class '', but then again this is the MMO-Champ forum, FeelsBadMan.
    Don't think anyone recently has even alluded to the bold statement, nem is competitive enough for the people who dont want to play momentum, and the people who cant afford to lose anything go with the best build even if it is all passive (or the most complex spec in game) right now the balance in that tier is wonderful and right where it should be (barring animation cancelling which they are working on actively) with the talent that requires more skill and active planning being slightly ahead of the rest, the one that requires SOME planning and forethought being second, and the one that is just fire and forget being third, i think its a good example of what blizz wants to achieve for dps talents.

  20. #3140
    Deleted
    i remember when after 130 pages of 'theorycrafting' for Havoc

    i was the first to discover that bloodlet with throw glaives was well deserving of a spot in the rotation.

    Strange that everyone cried about me saying that but now look, it is.

    You are welcome. i will post more influential posts about Havoc as time goes on.

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