1. #4581
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinJim View Post
    Is this for fury only, or will arms be just as competitive as well?
    I'm pretty questionable of Arms. Like the potential is there. Set bonuses and some Legendaries will still be good for Arms. It's still plagued by RNG, and in my opinion is much less versatile than Fury.

    Will Arms be good? Sure, I think so. But I'm doubtful of it's ability to keep up with Fury in a vast majority of situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roiids View Post
    How long has it taken you guys to get a legendary on Beta, I never got one, but I also didnt chain run dungoens, mainly because I want the end game to feel fresh when I do it on live.
    I'm just a few days shy of two months at max level and haven't gotten one yet. I've averaged probably just under 1 dungeon per day, and I've done my daily emissary the entire time. So definitely not going hard, but the Legendary RNG is by far my biggest worry of this expansion. They seem to take a long time to get, and half of them are trash on top of that.

  2. #4582
    Quote Originally Posted by Artunias View Post
    I'm pretty questionable of Arms. Like the potential is there. Set bonuses and some Legendaries will still be good for Arms. It's still plagued by RNG, and in my opinion is much less versatile than Fury.

    Will Arms be good? Sure, I think so. But I'm doubtful of it's ability to keep up with Fury in a vast majority of situations.

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    I'm just a few days shy of two months at max level and haven't gotten one yet. I've averaged probably just under 1 dungeon per day, and I've done my daily emissary the entire time. So definitely not going hard, but the Legendary RNG is by far my biggest worry of this expansion. They seem to take a long time to get, and half of them are trash on top of that.
    Good to know, I appreciate the feedback. I leveled and quit pretty much. I wanted Suramar/Dungeons to feel new when I did it on live. Mainly just leveled so I could take my sweet time with all the lore and then rush through it on live because I read all the text already.

  3. #4583
    Quote Originally Posted by Roiids View Post
    Good to know, I appreciate the feedback. I leveled and quit pretty much. I wanted Suramar/Dungeons to feel new when I did it on live. Mainly just leveled so I could take my sweet time with all the lore and then rush through it on live because I read all the text already.
    I did this, I levelled once on the alpha and since the beta wiped it all I have just dabbled with level 100 chars and PVP premades, since the raid tests scale you up anyway. I know quite a few people who have been playing beta like it's live, and so have fully comitted to gearing up their characters and absorbing themselves but that's not for me, I wanted to do some raid/class testing and you don't need to level to do that at all.

    Happy to go into the expansion mostly fresh and enjoy it, rather than burn myself out on the content in the months leading up to it. I've tested mostly with dummies and soloing old raids with the PVP premades. I do wish they would make the Legendary vendors available again, we had them for a week at the end of alpha but some of them have changed since then.

    Legendaries are one of my biggest issues with Legion though, I think they should not exist at all.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-07-29 at 05:22 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  4. #4584
    Quote Originally Posted by Artunias View Post
    I'm just a few days shy of two months at max level and haven't gotten one yet. I've averaged probably just under 1 dungeon per day, and I've done my daily emissary the entire time. So definitely not going hard, but the Legendary RNG is by far my biggest worry of this expansion. They seem to take a long time to get, and half of them are trash on top of that.
    That seems fairly unlucky tbh - most people I know that have played a sizeable amount at 110 (850+ ilvl) have a legendary, with one person having 2. I think that when Legion hits you'll probably be able to pick up 1 legendary by the time mythic opens, considering all the heroics/mythic+ you'll spam hoping for titanforged (yay).

    On legendaries, I feel the cloak giving 10% healing taken is actually fairly ridiculous. Will definitely not be sad if I get that one first.

  5. #4585
    Sorry if this has been asked to hell already in this thread, but I'm considering fury for Legion but wanted to ask those that have been playing beta how promising fury looks?

    How did fury compete in your tested 5 man/raid encounters?

    Does fury feel much better than WoD?

    My main beef was the inconsistency with the spec in WoD. I had no where near good gear which could have been the biggest problem and reason why I quit fury in WoD, but I couldn't stand when enrage didn't crit and how everything was centered around that. I know live isn't a good indication because I have already read here that you guys are tuned for 110, the maxed out artifact, the set bonuses etc... but what class isn't? I don't feel like that's a valid argument because I know every class is going to feel much better given all of that.

  6. #4586
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimtiros View Post
    I'm not sure where you got the idea that these are two separate variations - the reality is that both are used together.

    BT and RB should be used on cooldown with a filler GCD in between (typically FS/DR). In your titled first variation, you seem to be under the impression that Rampage is used during that "free GCD", but that's incorrect; in reality, it works as your second variation lays out: Rampage should be used at a higher priority than BT/RB to maintain Enrage, which is precisely what my guide says.

    Likewise, Crit actually is a strong stat up to ~30%, which is also reflected in the guide. This is pumped up to ~45% with one stack of FS, which you will typically have when not using Wrecking Ball. That's not enough for BT to be very reliable on its own, but it's enough when combined with targeted Rampage use to maintain Enrage.

    WRT Frothing Berserker, I'm not sure what you're seeing. There are a lot of variables which come into play; if you have enough gear, it might come out better, but in practice it's a pretty poor talent mainly because it requires you to spend rage and restack it to proc the effect (in other words, you can't sit at 100 rage and continually roll the effect, you have to drop and come back up to 100 to trigger it again); and doing that within 6s is pretty difficult. The best thing I can say about it is that it's fairly easy to maintain the effect during the Execute phase, by stacking rage and using Execute to spend small amounts and restack to 100 to maintain the effect, but you're giving up all synergy with Enrage (FS, Massacre, Rampage) to do so, and I have a hard time believing a 10% bonus is worth the loss of 40% Mastery and 100% inc AA speed to do so. I won't say you're wrong, but I've not been able to replicate it reliably.
    Ok, good deal - I knew there was something I was missing. I only gave the IV guide a cursory glance since Greil came out with his a hair before the IV one and with the way he explained it I think I just misread it. The IV guide approaches it in much more a priority system. Essentially I was just pressing rampage more often then I should have been. Thanks for bringing that to my attention! That alone and just playing with my 2nd variation there has given me a floor of 80 now, usually being around 85, which seems much more reasonable.

    I will say though, I'm really surprised you can't duplicate any half way decent results with Frothing Berserker. Even without a great opener (which is still a better opener then WO the talent) I'm still seeing numbers now about the exact same if not a hair better. My crits at 32 percent ATM, and if I am lucky enough for my first two non battle cry'ed BT's to hit, I can burst for right over 200K, which then by the time I 2nd ring settles back in to 100K, which is about 15K above what I would sit at without it. Although from what I can tell in order to produce those results, you have to get lucky twice in a row, which is the very definition of unpredictable. Unfortunately, to do it this way you can't battle cry or dragon roar on pull, you have to wait to to just about cap 100 rage, then DR as you are capping, followed by BC/Rampage. That, while the ring and avatar are going on is a LOT of damage. It's just, it takes about 7 GCD's to get there, two of which are going to be BT's. It has bad news bears written all over it, but if you test it out, it certainly happens SOMETIMES.

    That fun little edge case being said (obviously I'm not advocating doing this on a small percent chance of 'going big or going home' so to speak), I still get about the same results as not using Frothing Berserker. As long as I DR right before I rage cap and then BC/Rampage I'm seeing some decent numbers. (although the gap is far smaller now that my rotation is better)

  7. #4587
    I didn't come back to the game until pre-patch so I will never have a ring
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  8. #4588
    Can someone explain which talents are best for ST and which are best for cleave/aoe?

  9. #4589
    Brewmaster MORGATH99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden View Post
    It would be nice if Blizz allowed fury warriors to transmog 2handers to 1handers.
    i cry in the inside every day cause of that , wont be able to look like this anymore so sad .

    Last edited by MORGATH99; 2016-07-30 at 02:54 AM.

  10. #4590
    No idea, as I didn't test that far into Mythic+, but the log is certainly suspect. Notice he's using WoD enchants on his weapons?

  11. #4591
    I am Murloc! Seramore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reighnman View Post
    I didn't come back to the game until pre-patch so I will never have a ring
    If it makes you feel any better, I won't either. I was too lazy to get a ring on my Warrior during downtime and took too long to decide on what class to play for Legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz
    MMO champion for example used to be the center of WoW theorycrafting

  12. #4592
    Quote Originally Posted by Qoma View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this. Just whacking dummies, I've had it happen a surprising amount, IE it is not actually all that rare. What I think needs to be looked into is if Bloodthirst is critting but not activating Enrage, or if Bloodthirst is NOT critting in spite of the supposed 100% crit chance. I'll be looking out for this. Bug reports should likely be submitted.
    Tested this a little more. What I found was that in spite of having just used Battle Cry, Bloodthirst did NOT crit, and thus I was not enraged. This is on live servers.

  13. #4593
    Quote Originally Posted by Qoma View Post
    Tested this a little more. What I found was that in spite of having just used Battle Cry, Bloodthirst did NOT crit, and thus I was not enraged. This is on live servers.
    Yeah I had this happen in a dungeon, thought it might have been just a wonky dungeon boss. I also have this thing though where I activate Battle Cry at the last moment before hitting Bloodthirst and it doesn't actually activate. I'm not sure if it's latency related or what, but happened quite a few times with Battle Cry just not activating if I press it at the end of a GCD just before hitting the next BT.

    Result is I'm using Battle Cry slightly earlier to make sure it fires off before i hit my next GCD.. Annoying, never happened to me prior to this patch.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  14. #4594
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Yeah I had this happen in a dungeon, thought it might have been just a wonky dungeon boss. I also have this thing though where I activate Battle Cry at the last moment before hitting Bloodthirst and it doesn't actually activate. I'm not sure if it's latency related or what, but happened quite a few times with Battle Cry just not activating if I press it at the end of a GCD just before hitting the next BT.

    Result is I'm using Battle Cry slightly earlier to make sure it fires off before i hit my next GCD.. Annoying, never happened to me prior to this patch.
    I wonder if Battle Cry has some kind of minor delay, or something? Like maybe it doesn't activate until after the Gladiator-symbol has played? Not in front of my computer at the moment so just hypothesizing. But I'm getting this reasonably often enough that there is definitely something happening here.

  15. #4595
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Yeah I had this happen in a dungeon, thought it might have been just a wonky dungeon boss. I also have this thing though where I activate Battle Cry at the last moment before hitting Bloodthirst and it doesn't actually activate. I'm not sure if it's latency related or what, but happened quite a few times with Battle Cry just not activating if I press it at the end of a GCD just before hitting the next BT.

    Result is I'm using Battle Cry slightly earlier to make sure it fires off before i hit my next GCD.. Annoying, never happened to me prior to this patch.
    Happened to me also, but I think the problem is latency.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Qoma View Post
    Tested this a little more. What I found was that in spite of having just used Battle Cry, Bloodthirst did NOT crit, and thus I was not enraged. This is on live servers.
    Idk where did you test it, but be careful where u position yourself. Example if u are in front of the boss or target dummy, there is a chance that your Bloodthirst gets blocked, and u will still do dmg with it, only reduced (by half or 30% not sure exactly) and it will never be a crit and it will never proc enrage.

  16. #4596
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    @Archimtiros where i find your guide for fury? icy veins?

    im beeing arms/prot since end of 2012 but i find new fury rly enjoyable to me now, and since i can be all the specs i want learn more

  17. #4597
    Quote Originally Posted by Qoma View Post
    Tested this a little more. What I found was that in spite of having just used Battle Cry, Bloodthirst did NOT crit, and thus I was not enraged. This is on live servers.
    Are you standing in front of the dummy ? They can block and even though bloodthirst did technically crit it won't proc enrage. Has been that way forever.

  18. #4598
    Quote Originally Posted by Qoma View Post
    To break it down in the simplest terms: In your second variation, are you basically using RB on cooldown, using both Rampage and BT as alternating enrage maintainers, and then using FS as filler? Does that sound accurate?

    (FS being used much more often, so much so that BT is probably up around 75-90% crit chance with each use?)
    Yeah - now that I am more worried about enrage then I was about hitting rampage (which is the main thing I was doing wrong to begin with) I have tried a few different things at this point and it all winds up being about the same. I've tried hitting BT on CD no matter what. I've also tried gaming it by NOT hitting BT on CD if enrage was still up, but instead hitting FS. In this case my rotation becomes more akin to BT - RB - FS -Ram - RB - FS - BT, etc, basically hitting one FS during each enrage uptime. Honestly, it all seems to be a wash. You hit FS more, which is bad, but you have more enrage uptime, which is good. On the other hand, hitting BT on cd means less enrage time, bad, but less hitting the wet noodle which is FS, good. Also - and I haven't really tested this yet myself, but maybe theres an argument to be made that you delay RB slightly to make sure you hit it during enrage? It just winds up doing so much damage, you kinda hate not to get your mastery buff to it. On the other hand, it's a big race to get to Rampage rage, and delaying RB puts a crink in that. So many interesting things to consider!


    Oh, and not for nothing, but I am also experiencing BC not causing enrage VERY rarely on a training dummy. (It hasn't happened to me during raiding yet) My positioning is behind the dummy. I have a BC macro to every one of my abilities at this point (just in case), so my spidy sense tells me it could very well be a latency issue, since I never actually do it in between the GCD, it's just macro'ed to say, BT. Not a big deal, it is incredibly rare, like maybe twice in all of my testing/practicing atm. But it has indeed happened.

  19. #4599
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    @Archimtiros where i find your guide for fury? icy veins?

    im beeing arms/prot since end of 2012 but i find new fury rly enjoyable to me now, and since i can be all the specs i want learn more
    ye , its on Icy-veins.

  20. #4600
    Evertime I've had bloodthirst not crit with Battle Cry it's been due to a block or parry. There might be something else going on, but this happens a lot on beta and everytime I've checked it's been because of a block or parry.

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