Ret Paladin 7.0.3 DPS comparison

[zoomgpally]

Also, everyone is going "oh its noxxic"derp derp.

Yeah its noxxic, but we don't know what these charts refer to. They can be correct, they can be incorrect. We don't know what they refer to, wich gear level, wich set bonuses, etc.

I could pull random numbers out of my ass, they could be correct, but nobody should trust them because they are just random numbers pulled out of my ass.

That is what noxxic does, both with dps rankings and stat weights

[Neldarie]

Legion sims were done actually. And they did seem quite lacking with 875 ilvls of 218k-188k disparity depending on talents chosen. The dumbest thing is how full out AE spec was only 30k behind pure single target one. Maybe the gear chosen was not so hot but it did use 875 ilvl 4set that only comes with Nighthold and ye no legenadries.

I'm still concerned about ret (assuming no changes) for legion that is. From what I've seen in beta and how much of a powergain we get through our HFC tools over other classes + you gotta remember the template for 7.0.3 HFC which nerfed/buffed some specs and left Rets untouched...

And @Laur Crusade bug = if you hammer Crusade as it is about to expire (3charges 2set) you keep the 15stacker rolling on your consequent ones. Thats another reason why 7.0.3 HFC logs are just a clownfest (50sec+ of 65% dmg 52.5% haste).

[Taeldorian]

Lol how is anyone taking this post seriously when the chart is from Noxxic. That site has been proven inaccurate too many times to count.

Either Op knows Noxxic is shit and chose to post it just to make ret paladins who dont know about noxxic angry, or he doesnt know about noxxic and doesnt know how to look for actual data which in terms of WoW is really easy.

Either way, Noxxic is shit. If you get your rankings from there and make assumptions based on those rankings like who your main is going to be then you are bound to be disappointed.

Im not sure how ret is doing since Im holy, but following Noxxics data is an extremely bad idea.

[Deleted]

Legion sims were done actually. And they did seem quite lacking with 875 ilvls of 218k-188k disparity depending on talents chosen. The dumbest thing is how full out AE spec was only 30k behind pure single target one. Maybe the gear chosen was not so hot but it did use 875 ilvl 4set that only comes with Nighthold and ye no legenadries.

I'm still concerned about ret (assuming no changes) for legion that is. From what I've seen in beta and how much of a powergain we get through our HFC tools over other classes + you gotta remember the template for 7.0.3 HFC which nerfed/buffed some specs and left Rets untouched...

And @Laur Crusade bug = if you hammer Crusade as it is about to expire (3charges 2set) you keep the 15stacker rolling on your consequent ones. Thats another reason why 7.0.3 HFC logs are just a clownfest (50sec+ of 65% dmg 52.5% haste).

I would kindly ask for links, especially if theres a comparison with other specs. It am most curious to see it.

- - - Updated - - -

I could pull random numbers out of my ass, they could be correct, but nobody should trust them because they are just random numbers pulled out of my ass.

That is what noxxic does, both with dps rankings and stat weights

And i would adopt the same stance. I would want to know under wich circustances you got the numbers and would compare to legitimate sources to see if they concured.

Saying something is wrong without actually knowing if its wrong is biased. Every hypothesis must be verified and disproved or not through testing of that hypothesis and not who presents it.

[OrcsRLame]

I would kindly ask for links, especially if theres a comparison with other specs. It am most curious to see it.

- - - Updated - - -



And i would adopt the same stance. I would want to know under wich circustances you got the numbers and would compare to legitimate sources to see if they concured.

Saying something is wrong without actually knowing if its wrong is biased. Every hypothesis must be verified and disproved or not through testing of that hypothesis and not who presents it.

I'm pretty sure Legion sims for ret aren't ready yet. We've had some sims but they were inaccurate enough that we're not even 110% sure about our stat weights right now, let alone ready to compare with other classes/specs. @Solsacra or @Thete would know way more about this than I would though.

[ThunSaren]

I'm pretty sure Legion sims for ret aren't ready yet. We've had some sims but they were inaccurate enough that we're not even 110% sure about our stat weights right now, let alone ready to compare with other classes/specs. @Solsacra or @Thete would know way more about this than I would though.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...ombo.html?dl=0
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...ombo.html?dl=0
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...ombo.html?dl=0

These are the latest i can find, some balance changes have gone through since then i believe, but the core design hasnt changed, its also after the AtA nerf. i dont think anyone has done a sim with all classes as some of them need a lot more work on their profiles. A bunch has been adjusted in ret profile too, and these sims do not account for blessings at all. Nor are the gear profiles 100% done there. It's very early to judge ret now from pve perspective, mobility issues are there, but they arent the end of the world.

[OrcsRLame]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...ombo.html?dl=0
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...ombo.html?dl=0
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...ombo.html?dl=0

These are the latest i can find, some balance changes have gone through since then i believe, but the core design hasnt changed, its also after the AtA nerf. i dont think anyone has done a sim with all classes as some of them need a lot more work on their profiles. A bunch has been adjusted in ret profile too, and these sims do not account for blessings at all. Nor are the gear profiles 100% done there. It's very early to judge ret now from pve perspective, mobility issues are there, but they arent the end of the world.

That's about what I figured. I'm not gonna get all doom and gloom until we can quantify with exact numbers how legendaries, a maxed artifact, and 4PT19 affect our dps. Then if we're found to be low enough that I consider it to be worrying, then you can bet your ass I'll be getting out my pitchfork. With the numbers I've personally experienced both on beta and live I'd be surprised if that ends up being the case though. I guess we'll see.

[Christhammer]

Pretty sure you failed at reading the topic of the thread as it is about 7.0.3 and not mythic+ shit AKA legion.

No one cares about pre-patch. It's still WoD crap. Classes are tuned for 110 so having a DPS chart over lvl 100 is pointless. 110 is what matters.

[Morally Grey Storm]

No one cares about pre-patch. It's still WoD crap. Classes are tuned for 110 so having a DPS chart over lvl 100 is pointless. 110 is what matters.

Nobody cared about pre-patch. It was still tBC crap.

[Neldarie]

Nobody cared about pre-patch. It was still tBC crap.

Those 1-2shot hammers of wrath were real

[Myspeld]

these are indeed utility spells, albeit available to other Paladin specs, with lower cooldowns to boot.
These do not jsutify bringing Ret. At all.


Now this is where it gets funny
Did you just really count a hardcasted, incredibly expensive heal as an utility?

And cleanse? Seriously?
Are you that desperate?)


a fething disgrace .
They are not utility in the slightest.
It's pre-pull fire and forget buff.
Negliggible at that, yet crucial for optimal Ret DPS.
You have no say in which GBlessing to utilize.
You either put 3 Mights, or gtfo from raid.
Such utility.

such as..?


Yes it does.
And a mobility buff.

>Did you just really count a hardcasted, incredibly expensive heal as an utility?

Yes it's a fucking utility, if you think that it's not because it has a cast time you're retarded. And there are situations when that UTILITY can get you a boss kill, just because it's not used often doesn't make it not a utility.

>And cleanse? Seriously?
Are you that desperate?)

k

>such as..?

Word of Glory

Repent


I'm ready for you to call me desperate again for naming spells.

[Ciric-Wildhammer]

No one cares about pre-patch. It's still WoD crap. Classes are tuned for 110 so having a DPS chart over lvl 100 is pointless. 110 is what matters.

Get on the beta, hit a dummy with Ret. Then make a monk and hit on a dummy. Get back on the forums and post your rage.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Hardcasted Flash of Light is a fucking utility, if you think that it's not because it has a cast time you're retarded. And there are situations when that UTILITY can get you a boss kill, just because it's not used often doesn't make it not a utility.

Gotta tell my Raidleader I am in posession of this very tremendously tremendous Utility that is hardcasted , incredibly expensive heal as a melee dps.
He'll be so relieved .
Feth, my whole raidgroup will feel relieved, knowing I'll be keeping a watchful eye over t hem with very strongar Utility.
Even our healers will feel relieved, knowing I am here for them to save the day.

Also, nice try at insulting. But I'm sure you can do better than that.

Word of Glory

Repent

Now this is a fair point, a weak melee aoe heal that costs a lot of dps and has a cooldown to boot, is indeed a very strongest utility as well.
I am so ready for numerous occasions where this Utility will save the raid.
Except it won't.

Repent

This is where you got me on the ropes.
Hardcasted CC is very often required from a melee dps, it is not rare for a raid to lack some actual, viable cc.
Good job here.

I'm ready for you to call me desperate again for naming spells.

And I'm not ready for another forum vacation yet, for what you should be called as, would surely grant me one.

[Deleted]

Stay strong Storm don´t give in to the temptation. I don´t think he will ever agree that the utility we were brought for in WOD was vastly superior to what we have to offer in legion.
It won´t matter to him that we have been looked at warily when they noticed that you instant flashed the nearly dead dps and saved your raid from an unnecessary BR.
It won´t matter to him that traditionally mechanics are programmed to ignore BoP making it a non utility for raids.
It won´t matter to him whatever argument we bring, he will still deny it, he will still belief in Blizzards wisdom.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Stay strong Storm don´t give in to the temptation.

My face is my shield.

[OrcsRLame]

On the topic of Flash of Light, it does have use in raids. Probably the most extreme example that I've personally seen was third Wroughts on mythic Archimonde. My guild didn't have the dps to skip third Wroughts without getting a near full health Deathcaller going into P3, but we had enough damage that if we didn't stop for like 12 seconds to clean up adds then we'd push around the time of the next Overfiend spawn. So we ended up stopping dps during third Wroughts. During said time I was spamming FoL on people if I didn't happen to be close enough to any adds.

It's hard to say how much impact that had, but I did spam heal the people that tended to die the most, and it did seem like they died a bit less. Could be coincidence, or maybe not.

[minteK917]

So according to this im doubling Mythic assa rogues dps on the target dummy with my shit 712 ilvl gear rogue...Sounds accurate.

[Found]

I'm pretty sure Legion sims for ret aren't ready yet. We've had some sims but they were inaccurate enough that we're not even 110% sure about our stat weights right now, let alone ready to compare with other classes/specs. @Solsacra or @Thete would know way more about this than I would though.

The simulation code itself should be correct - if you notice anything wrong, please report an issue on Github, in the simcraft IRC, or in Discord. The rotation and gear profiles may not yet be optimal (and almost certainly are not for level 100), but that should be the case for a number of other specs as well. Ret's T19 set is also not yet implemented, and probably won't be until we are more confident that it is final and ideally we get a chance to test it.

It's unlikely a simcraft comparison/stack ranking for 7.0 level 100 will ever be officially released - most folks are not worrying much about optimizing for the prepatch. Probably a set of the 110 comparisons will come out eventually, but its value will probably be even sketchier than ever (EDIT: thanks to the existence of Titanforged, different possible artifact paths/ranks, etc).

[Myspeld]

Gotta tell my Raidleader I am in posession of this very tremendously tremendous Utility that is hardcasted , incredibly expensive heal as a melee dps.
He'll be so relieved .
Feth, my whole raidgroup will feel relieved, knowing I'll be keeping a watchful eye over t hem with very strongar Utility.
Even our healers will feel relieved, knowing I am here for them to save the day.

Also, nice try at insulting. But I'm sure you can do better than that.


Now this is a fair point, a weak melee aoe heal that costs a lot of dps and has a cooldown to boot, is indeed a very strongest utility as well.
I am so ready for numerous occasions where this Utility will save the raid.
Except it won't.


This is where you got me on the ropes.
Hardcasted CC is very often required from a melee dps, it is not rare for a raid to lack some actual, viable cc.
Good job here.


And I'm not ready for another forum vacation yet, for what you should be called as, would surely grant me one.

>Gotta tell my Raidleader I am in posession of this very tremendously tremendous Utility that is hardcasted , incredibly expensive heal as a melee dps.
He'll be so relieved .
Feth, my whole raidgroup will feel relieved, knowing I'll be keeping a watchful eye over t hem with very strongar Utility.
Even our healers will feel relieved, knowing I am here for them to save the day.

Also, nice try at insulting. But I'm sure you can do better than that.




You act like a 12 year old, you should probably just start lurking on this site until you're older or less retarded. There's no point to keep talking if you can't understand that flash of light is a utility, your only argument is that it isn't used often but that doesn't change the fact that it's a utility spell.



>Now this is a fair point, a weak melee aoe heal that costs a lot of dps and has a cooldown to boot, is indeed a very strongest utility as well.
I am so ready for numerous occasions where this Utility will save the raid.
Except it won't.

You asked what utility spells were available in the talent tree and I told you them, it doesn't matter whether they will be used or are useful or not, fuck off.


>This is where you got me on the ropes.
Hardcasted CC is very often required from a melee dps, it is not rare for a raid to lack some actual, viable cc.
Good job here.

Again, you asked what utility ret has and I told you, it doesn't matter if it's used a lot but it's there.

>And I'm not ready for another forum vacation yet, for what you should be called as, would surely grant me one.

Super edgy

[Turaska]

I'm going Feral XD

Why are you even comparing pre-patch class DPS (which has basically been built for level 110 at this point), it's totally pointless. DPS at the moment is absolutely 100% irrelevant. Classes are both over performing and under performing, that isn't because the class is broken its because they've been built for level 110 in mind, not for level 100.