Virtually Immortal and actually Immortal

[Wildmoon]

It wasn't stated anywhere that the Draenei are immortal. It's a lot more likely that they are just another long-lived race that age extremely slowly.

Edit: just noticed, but anyone know what happened to "Prophet's Lesson"? Just found out it's no longer on the new WoW lore story site.

It's pretty weird that Malfurion and Tyrande still look perfectly fit and Velen looks like he is about to pass on soon lol.

[Qualia]

Well, in many great works of fiction, immortality simply means that a person or being will not die of old age. The elves in Lord of the Rings, for example, were immortal, but could still be killed. What you describe is often referred to as being invincible, not immortal.

Not true. Being invincible means you can't be defeated, it has little to nothing to do with immortality. Maybe you were looking for invulnerable?

Anyway, there are different type of immortality. True / absolute immortality means both unaging AND invulnerable (or at least night-invulnerable). Unaging (can't die of old age) is just partial / incomplete immortality.

[Tzalix]

Not true. Being invincible means you can't be defeated, it has little to nothing to do with immortality. Maybe you were looking for invulnerable?

Anyway, there are different type of immortality. True / absolute immortality means both unaging AND invulnerable (or at least night-invulnerable). Unaging (can't die of old age) is just partial / incomplete immortality.

My point was that it varies in different works of fiction. In some universes, Immortality does mean that a being truly cannot die. In others, it means a being does not age. In some there are several types like you describe.

And yes, I was looking for invulnerable. I'm tired.

[Qualia]

It's pretty weird that Malfurion and Tyrande still look perfectly fit and Velen looks like he is about to pass on soon lol.

It's kind of fair seeing that Malfurion / Tyrande and the NE stopped aging (after reaching their prime I suppose) when Nordrassil was planted. At the moment, they've only aged 10 years + however old they were during WoTA. In comparison, Velen had been aging for more than 25,000 years :P

[Enthralled]

It's pretty weird that Malfurion and Tyrande still look perfectly fit and Velen looks like he is about to pass on soon lol.

They were really young at the time of the War of the Ancients -- like a few decades young if we discard the Warcraft Encyclopedia version of their ages, which with the release of Chronicle cannot be correct and was the only outlier anyway. If we assume that the blessing of Nordrassil stopped or at least slowed their aging immensely, then at this point they are actually still pretty young and have a great many years ahead of them, again assuming that now their lifespan is that of other elves.

[omeomorfismo]

"virtually" isnt simply because nelf are immortal thanks the well or the tree? without these sources they can die by aging.
meanwhile people like forsaken have their immortalily thanks their "biology"

[Beloren]

"virtually" isnt simply because nelf are immortal thanks the well or the tree? without these sources they can die by aging.
meanwhile people like forsaken have their immortalily thanks their "biology"

actually I don't think that's what Chronicles meant, part of their biology was high intelligence and virtual immortality - it's what they evolved into due to the well, once the evolution was complete, you could take away the Well - like in the case of the arcane groups (highborne, nightborne and Moonguard) and you see them still living over 10k years. It's biology. but it's not forever. it may be 20k years, but it's not 5million years. Now with the tree, it's a different scenario, they are linked to the tree, the tree doesn't change their biology or anything, it makes them immortal as long as they're connected to it. that means if the tree stood for 5million years, they would stand for 5million years. In that you are correct. Without the tree they lose immortality and return to being virtually immortal, i.e. really long lived but still mortal.

[omeomorfismo]

actually I don't think that's what Chronicles meant, part of their biology was high intelligence and virtual immortality - it's what they evolved into due to the well, once the evolution was complete, you could take away the Well - like in the case of the arcane groups (highborne, nightborne and Moonguard) and you see them still living over 10k years. It's biology. but it's not forever. it may be 20k years, but it's not 5million years. Now with the tree, it's a different scenario, they are linked to the tree, the tree doesn't change their biology or anything, it makes them immortal as long as they're connected to it. that means if the tree stood for 5million years, they would stand for 5million years. In that you are correct. Without the tree they lose immortality and return to being virtually immortal, i.e. really long lived but still mortal.

but if i remember correctly in chronicle there is an example of like the arcane magic can be used to prolong the life (the mother of mediv?)
so think that standing near a well of pure arcane power prolong your life indefinitely, so the virtual immortality, is presumable.
then however the evolution improved their life expectation, but this isnt immortality

[Raetary]

It's pretty weird that Malfurion and Tyrande still look perfectly fit and Velen looks like he is about to pass on soon lol.

they were pretty young during the WotA, velen is most likely twice as old as they both together.

[Beloren]

but if i remember correctly in chronicle there is an example of like the arcane magic can be used to prolong the life (the mother of mediv?)
so think that standing near a well of pure arcane power prolong your life indefinitely, so the virtual immortality, is presumable.
then however the evolution improved their life expectation, but this isnt immortality

don't think they need proximity though, the transformation into elves comes with virtual immortality, high intelligence, (strength and stature too as well as purple hued darker skin). It's their biology. However arcane sources do enhance beings further, and night elves could be able to utilise the arcane further to gain even more intelligence and life.

[Raugnaut]

It's kind of fair seeing that Malfurion / Tyrande and the NE stopped aging (after reaching their prime I suppose) when Nordrassil was planted. At the moment, they've only aged 10 years + however old they were during WoTA. In comparison, Velen had been aging for more than 25,000 years :P

While I haven't read Chronicles yet, going by the pre-Chronicles timeline, Velen is at least 100k years old. Sargeras formed his Burning Legion before Azeroth was created, and Azeroth was only 100k something years old. Since KJ and Archi are two of the senior members of the Legion, Velen is pretty damn old - Older then Azeroth in both the Chronicles and pre-Chronicles timeline.

[Zethras]

I imagine that virtual immortality means that so long as Nordrassil would have stood, night elves would not have died natural deaths of old age, but could still be killed.

Actual immortality would be complete immunity to death, including murder, explosions, etc.

That would be invincibility, immortality is immune to death from old age, but not death from violence/poison/disease/etc.

[Traveler Voltin]

im·mor·tal
i(m)ˈmôrdl/
adjective
adjective: immortal
1.
living forever; never dying or decaying.
"our mortal bodies are inhabited by immortal souls"
synonyms: undying, deathless, eternal, everlasting, never-ending, endless, lasting, enduring, ceaseless; More
deserving to be remembered forever.
"the immortal children's classic, “The Adventures of Tom Sawyer.”"
synonyms: timeless, perennial, classic, time-honored, enduring;


i think i win

[Beloren]

That would be invincibility, immortality is immune to death from old age, but not death from violence/poison/disease/etc.

I think in normal life when we talk of immortality, especially in a spiritual sense it means unable to die too, but in WoW, like Tolkein verse, immortality doesn't mean immunity fromh, t just means you won't die from old age, you don't grow old and die, you hit peak and stay there indefinitely - unless you're killed or twisted somehow.

[Zethras]

I think in normal life when we talk of immortality, especially in a spiritual sense it means unable to die too, but in WoW, like Tolkein verse, immortality doesn't mean immunity fromh, t just means you won't die from old age, you don't grow old and die, you hit peak and stay there indefinitely - unless you're killed or twisted somehow.

Figuratively the definition of invincibility.

[Beloren]

im·mor·tal
i(m)ˈmôrdl/
adjective
adjective: immortal
1.
living forever; never dying or decaying.
"our mortal bodies are inhabited by immortal souls"
synonyms: undying, deathless, eternal, everlasting, never-ending, endless, lasting, enduring, ceaseless; More
deserving to be remembered forever.
"the immortal children's classic, “The Adventures of Tom Sawyer.”"
synonyms: timeless, perennial, classic, time-honored, enduring;


i think i win

ah.. read my respose, that is what immortality means in real life. But in WoW-verse, like Tolkein-verse it doesn't mean invulnerability, Tolkein was genius enough to even adapt the meaning of that word, because his version has no original sin and hence mortality, therefore immortality cannot mean invulnerability in his verse, so he def immortality means in Middle Earth, some of the fantasy universe series follow that line too.

It shouldn't surprise us though, fantasy worlds change a lot of things from irl, even though similar words are used, you get to find out when it means something else.

- - - Updated - - -

Figuratively the definition of invincibility.

yeah! irl, but not w ofc, where immortality has never meant invincibility. 100% agreed

[Traveler Voltin]

ah.. read my respose, that is what immortality means in real life. But in WoW-verse, like Tolkein-verse it doesn't mean invulnerability, Tolkein was genius enough to even adapt the meaning of that word, because his version has no original sin and hence mortality, therefore immortality cannot mean invulnerability in his verse, so he def immortality means in Middle Earth, some of the fantasy universe series follow that line too.

It shouldn't surprise us though, fantasy worlds change a lot of things from irl, even though similar words are used, you get to find out when it means something else.

- - - Updated - - -



yeah! irl, but not w ofc, where immortality has never meant invincibility. 100% agreed

that is what immortality means, is what i posted.

[FelPlague]

Immortality in wow terms simply means does not die from aging. they can die from being sick, being killed, etc
invincible means literally unkillable, cant be killed, cant die from age, cant die from getting sick, etc
so virtually immortal i dont know what that would mean.. maybe just live for a insane amount of time, or maybe because once the world tree is destroyed, they lose their immortality...

[Traveler Voltin]

so i went and grabbed my dictionary that looks like it might have been published in 68.

Immortal:
not mortal; not liable or subject to death
remembered or celebrated throughout all time
not liable to perish or decay; imperishable; everlasting
perpetual;lasting; constant
of or pertaining to immortal beings or immortality
an immortal being

immortality:
immortal condition or quality; unending life
enduring fame

[jdbond592]

True immortality is impossible. It implies that you can't be killed.