Have addons indirectly ruined the game ?

[Mercane]

People who whine about recount/skada, which allow us to see that they suck, and won't install addons like dbm/bigwigs or weakauras, are ruining the game. For others and themselves.

People still use recount? (this is a serious question)

Only addon I use it BattlegroundTarget. DBM and Recount ruined raiding for me and I wont raid until those addons are banned.

You don't 'need' DBM, you can write WA triggers for most encounters anyway- Mythic raiding would be a lot more difficult without BigWigs/DBM though. I guess if you want to go full score- you can toss in TellMeWhen, WeakAuras, Angry Assignments, TomTom, and Dugi Quest Essentials as well.

[glowpipe]

For the most part, no. But dps meters should never have been allowed. It changed the game from being a cooperative team based game where 10-40 people worked to together to beat a boss to the shitfest it is today. Only competing against each other and spewing omnidirectional crap

[HappyCola]

People still use recount? (this is a serious question)

Why wouldn't they? How else will you track your performance in real time?

[Mercane]

Why wouldn't they? How else will you track your performance in real time?

With Details!

For the most part, no. But dps meters should never have been allowed. It changed the game from being a cooperative team based game where 10-40 people worked to together to beat a boss to the shitfest it is today. Only competing against each other and spewing omnidirectional crap

I think as long as there was an 'advanced logging' option, dps meters would have been a thing. The problem DPS Meters create is within players, and nothing within the game itself; so while the addon might be the focus of your blame, maybe you just need to find better people to play with.

I'd say Logs (as in WarcraftLogs) is more important for the progression of lots and lots of raid teams than however you might feel about the secondary component of 'advanced combat logging'.

[Daedius]

A LOT of the conveniences of WoW's default UI are thanks to addons...

WoW's default raid UI of old was incredibly shit before it had vast improvements, for example.

[GhostSkull]

They made the community shittier that's for sure.
The toxicity related to recount, ilvl, etc...

I agree. The benefits of addons are outweighed by the disruption they create. I remember pugging Iron Crown and having someone scream at me and other puggers over vent because we didn't have an addon we'd never heard of.

A current example. I'm trying to craft things for Tmoggers. But the first copy of something I make is typically purchased by people using auction house add-ons which mechanize the labor of creating auctions. Where I sold for hundreds, they jack it to thousands. Pretty much insuring that they'll never sell it. When I create a second item to sell, the automated auctioneer quickly undercuts me with my own goods. I'm either forced to devote a huge amount of game time to undercutting, or to also use an addon. I could drive the price down to where he loses money, but since I've invested more time in gathering mats, I lose more. The end result is that it discourages crafting.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I agree. The benefits of addons are outweighed by the disruption they create. I remember pugging Iron Crown and having someone scream at me and other puggers over vent because we didn't have an addon we'd never heard of.

A current example. I'm trying to craft things for Tmoggers. But the first copy of something I make is typically purchased by people using auction house add-ons which mechanize the labor of creating auctions. Where I sold for hundreds, they jack it to thousands. Pretty much insuring that they'll never sell it. When I create a second item to sell, the automated auctioneer quickly undercuts me with my own goods. I'm either forced to devote a huge amount of game time to undercutting, or to also use an addon. I could drive the price down to where he loses money, but since I've invested more time in gathering mats, I lose more. The end result is that it discourages crafting.

I'm more moderate about it, we've seen in several games before that recount would exist had addons being unsupported anyway. These game-breaking mods always finds a way to break the fun of everybody, regardless of if they're supported or not.

I'm not a big fan of mods - well, I DO appreciate graphic mods. I'm currently using Diabolic UI and it's gorgeous. But things that change gameplay are breaking gameplay for everybody who's not intent on min-maxing everything.

[Incarnia]

A current example. I'm trying to craft things for Tmoggers. But the first copy of something I make is typically purchased by people using auction house add-ons which mechanize the labor of creating auctions. Where I sold for hundreds, they jack it to thousands. Pretty much insuring that they'll never sell it. When I create a second item to sell, the automated auctioneer quickly undercuts me with my own goods. I'm either forced to devote a huge amount of game time to undercutting, or to also use an addon. I could drive the price down to where he loses money, but since I've invested more time in gathering mats, I lose more. The end result is that it discourages crafting.

What? Why on earth would you be forced to devote a huge amount of game time to undercutting? Try their smartphone app. Extremely useful. No Addon needed what so ever. Sure there is a daily cap on how many auctions you can list - but unless you are an extreme AH player you won't hit the cap.
I use TSM, but not to list or buy items. Only to find out the current market value, and if I can make a profit from crafting something in particular that I have in mind, or if I'm better off selling the materials. To actually list items or buy I use their app for. Mainly since it is way superior to the default in-game AH and its options.

TSM + their app = fun to craft and farm... In my opinion anyway. You probably don't agree, but that is okay. We're different, and both view and enjoy things differently.

[ComputerNerd]

Without it, people are helpless. Its not a problem with the encounter, you can function in this fight without an addon easily. You can make a macro or you can keybind your extra action button. Its a problem with the players, its addon dependency. You need an addon that color codes raid frames and instantly tosses on click. People who say addons like DBM influence boss mechanics make me laugh, because every mechanic in HFC has an audio or visual queue already, all DBM does is act as an amplifier. There is absolutely nothing wrong with enhancing your UI. I'm just saying there are ruinous addons, not all addons are bad. Ruinous addons make you a worse player, because without them you cannot interact with the game at the same level.

and I'm curious: What does Blizzard do at Blizzcon for dungeon/raid races and PvP in regards to addons? I thought that most high rated PvPers don't rely too heavily on them because they were not allowed.

Are there specific addons for each an every encounter with the influence those have ?
No.
You are just hellbent on addon bashing for the sake of it.
If the visual or audible cues worked for everyone there wouldn't be a need for anything else.
People use what works for them, you just can't accept that.

What people use in the blizzard tournament due to enforced restrictions does not necessarily equal the rest of the time.
You just choose to see what you want to see, a specific example not representative of most of the time they play.

[Deleted]

How the fuck is playing your class optimally considered toxic? Also, you might want to reroll DH since as Bliz stated, it will have little difference between good and bad players. Will suit you well.



You haven't even raided anything above LFR. Wtf you on about?

I raided from molten core all the way up to ulduar. And I have tried both HM and HFC on heroic diffuclty in WoD. What are you on about?

[Mercane]

I raided from molten core all the way up to ulduar. And I have tried both HM and HFC on heroic diffuclty in WoD. What are you on about?

Unless you were world first, nobody cares what you raided in Vanilla, BC, or Wrath.

If I had to choose between bossmods and complex encounters, or no bossmods and vanilla encounters... I'll take bossmods every single time.

[mhdoe]

No because you have the option to not use them. Personally I love they allow addons and let me have a little say in how and what I do in the game to customize it to my play style.

[Deleted]

Reforging add-on was one of the main reasons for its removal. DBM turns visual awareness into sounds mostly and is why less people move out of stuff tunnel visioning their rotation.

It's also a requirement to have DBM in any raiding guild 'if you want to raid seriously'

[Deleted]

Unless you were world first, nobody cares what you raided in Vanilla, BC, or Wrath.

If I had to choose between bossmods and complex encounters, or no bossmods and vanilla encounters... I'll take bossmods every single time.

Naturally, I don't imagine anyone would care what I have done or haven't done. My "achievements" in pvp / pve back in those days are not only not compareable due to game being completly different. You also have to keep in mind that during classic/tbc/wrath, the game were still relativly young. What was considered hard or skillful back then, is considered trivial by todays standard. It's simply the nature human learning. But I do think that the way blizzard flood encounters with mechanics today are abit extreme and there should be possible to find a middleground; making the encounter hard and intruiging without making it so hard that you practially can't complete them without the aid of advanced addons.

[cFortyfive]

it's basically playing the game for us,

Using retarded exaggerations don't add much value.
Can't say I know any noteworthy part of the game that became trivial because addons are around. Sure leveling got easier but it's hardly because weakauras are around.

[Timberwind]

Again. You can chose to use them or not.
Its the difference between if your a casual player that is just there for fun or you are trying to get better and make your way to the top.
You have to adapt if you even want a chance.

Its like if you where a photographer for fun and took peoples pictures and edited them on what your computer gave you. So paint.
OR
If you actually wanted to do something with photography, you absolutely need photoshop. You may not like it, but reality is. Your competition is using it.
In a perfect world. If add ons did not exist or they were considered a "cheat". Then sure.
However, if you want to get up in the charts. You need to do everything you can. That means matching what tools the competition is using.

Which means that they are imbalanced and create an uneven playing field. You proved my point with this post.

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Using retarded exaggerations don't add much value.
Can't say I know any noteworthy part of the game that became trivial because addons are around. Sure leveling got easier but it's hardly because weakauras are around.

You're just wrong. Simply and stupidly wrong.
There are weakauras say "push this button next" they make playing the character about an addon. Not about skill, not about choice, if you can't see that, there is something fundamentally wrong with your brain. kthx

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FPS and MOBAs are completely different.
Who would need an add on for a moba to keep track of 4 spells? That is why there is non.

In the perfect world, yes. People should just be good at tracking CDs on their own and memorizing it all. Even then though its impossible.
Tell me, how else would you know in a 3v3 arena that the healer is drinking during downtime to full mana while you focus on the dps thinking you are doing good because the healer is out of mana and missing, but then comes back with full mana?
I am not saying have big flashy add ons.. I dont even have those.
The only flash I have is for my DoTs to let me know when I need to refresh instead of having to squint my eyes below the raid frame of the enemy to see the CD
Other than that, gladius announcing when something is happening is enough.

Like many people have stated in this thread. If Blizzard saw it as an issue. They wouldn't allow it and it would be very easy for them to get rid of the add ons.
The add ons are not going anywhere and have been a part of WoW for a very long time.
You see the add ons as advantage because you do not want to use them.

You can play WoW all you want without them in PvP and PvE for fun and not have a problem with it.
Fact is though. The pro streamers that do PvP and the competitive guilds that rush for first kill in PvE all utilize add-ons because the game was built with them in mind.
Because add-ons are a tool that build upon skill.

When 4 skills turns into 20, because there are 5 players, that's a lot more information to try and manage. There is no tool in WoW right now that puts a huge marker on a healer and tracks that person's cd's. There are only add-ons that do that.
For the people who are talking about healbot, are there not mouseover macros pre-integrated into the system that make it so all you do is mouse over people with a debuff and it cleanses that debuff without you pressing a button? IE, its playing your character?

[Mlz]

I raided from molten core all the way up to ulduar. And I have tried both HM and HFC on heroic diffuclty in WoD. What are you on about?

Sorry but you shouldn't be talking about how x or y is ruining raiding when pretty much all your tier achievements for the past 3 expansions have been gotten without any progression whatsoever. Or has it something to do with you doing 50% of other people's DPS while tunneling the boss the most and being called out on that? Because obviously that wouldn't be an issue if recount wasn't a thing

[Moozart]

They made the community shittier that's for sure.

The toxicity related to recount, ilvl, etc...

Ilvl is built into the game for some time with no need for an addon, that is on blizz. And if you dont suck and play your class correctly recount should also not be an issue

[cFortyfive]

You're just wrong. Simply and stupidly wrong.
There are weakauras say "push this button next" they make playing the character about an addon. Not about skill, not about choice, if you can't see that, there is something fundamentally wrong with your brain. kthx

Even the standard ui has visual queues for procs and abilities and it still doesn't play the game for you. Skill and choices - you probably believe playing the rotation of any class is hard. They didn't make leveling easier because weakauras of fucking dbm exists but because gaming is filled with imbeciles.

[Deleted]

I once got accused of being a shitty player due to using MrRobot to tell me what's BiS for my char. According to that dude I should do the math myself..... Can't do anything else but roll my eyes at that type of ignorant twats.

I feel a bit of the same towards people calming Addons are playing the game for us. No they don't. They really don't. I can't take that type of simplistic and exaggerated argumentation seriously.

I've been around this game since its launch, for me Addons has never played the game for me (I use quite a lot). What it has done however is help me play at my full potential. If I just derp around, and don't really give a damn about _how to anything_ in this game no Addon in the world will make me a good player. I'll at best be mediocre, and will most likely be a burden to my group/raid.
Now, you can be a great player without Addons, as long as the will to be good, to improve, to be the best you can be is there. Sometimes Addons/macros might be "required" to be able to deal with some really difficult boss mechanics efficiently (you can still fail to embarrassing shit with Addons/macros, just remember that). But outside of that you can do excellent without them.

Now, I don't know if I am correct about this but I'm fairly sure I've read blue's stating that they do take into account bossmods when designing hard boss encounters.

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I'm positive he didn't mean HC but Mythic.

Addons can be used on general metrics, Theorycraft and parsing/adapting to your level of playstyle (Your skill in performing your rotation) would be optimal calculation for your character.

The person wasn't ignorant ; Ignorance is what you cited. You willfully choose to believe something, instead of actually asserting the data in any respect, putting blind faith in an Addon.

That is exactly what WOULD make you a Worse player.

"But the Addon told me, it's always right!" ; Lack of critical thought on your end - Good players have internalized knowledge that is proven, asserted and accounted for.

The best stay the best, by knowing what they are doing. Relying on what someone else wrote for you, is the opposite of knowing what you are doing.