So... Illidan's next power boost?

[Amnasty]

If Illidan gets Light powers, I am afraid Paladins might as well be removed from the game. Many people want to play Paladins as Light users, yet are restricted to certain principles to RP as one. Then comes a Demon Hunter, an anti-hero, grasping Light powers in that state.

I really dunno why all the hate.

Blood Knights and Lady Liandrian (spelling?) where ripping the power of the holy light from the body of a naruu to fuel the holy power they wielded. They did not channel it the way humans or dwarfs did. We also have an undead in game with the Argent Dawn who wields the light.

I think Illidans becoming both is poetic in the as it fits his personality. Everyone keeps saying hes some holy being...that is not the case...he is no angle...the elder naruu clearly states he is the child of light and shadow. He is both sides of the coin...like a discipline priest. Even as an avatar of light he is a creature of fel. I believe the light will serve him because he is 1)the most qualified to lead the army of light and 2)as the most qualified, his cause has always been righteous regardless of the dubious moments he has put himself in.

[Deleted]

I really dunno why all the hate.

Blood Knights and Lady Liandrian (spelling?) where ripping the power of the holy light from the body of a naruu to fuel the holy power they wielded. They did not channel it the way humans or dwarfs did. We also have an undead in game with the Argent Dawn who wields the light.

I think Illidans becoming both is poetic in the as it fits his personality. Everyone keeps saying hes some holy being...that is not the case...he is no angle...the elder naruu clearly states he is the child of light and shadow. He is both sides of the coin...like a discipline priest. Even as an avatar of light he is a creature of fel. I believe the light will serve him because he is 1)the most qualified to lead the army of light and 2)as the most qualified, his cause has always been righteous regardless of the dubious moments he has put himself in.

That one undead is no paladin. You don’t have to be a paladin in order to become a member of the AC/D. It’s nowhere stated or shown that he actually wields the light.
IMO there’s a huge difference in mortals stealing the light and a demon becoming the vessel of light. I know there are also redeemed demons (ever since Cataclysm) but they lost their demonic entity during redemption.

Fel burns and consumes life, magic and souls and the Light is the opposite and it damages demons just as much as undead if not more. Illidan should be crippling in pain when he keeps his demonic entity and not radiate the light more than the sun. And no, you cannot compare it do disc priests either, because they balance shadow and light, which are the two sides and they still have their mortal souls and no demonic.

Besides that: Through the book it’s obvious that Illidan knows what he’s doing and that he doesn’t need the light in order to damage the Legion, it doesn’t enhance the story more than it cripples it. Why would he need to wield the light when the Army of Light doesn’t solely consist of light users but all classes (even demonic warlocks and demon hunters)?

[Amnasty]

That one undead is no paladin. You don’t have to be a paladin in order to become a member of the AC/D. It’s nowhere stated or shown that he actually wields the light.
IMO there’s a huge difference in mortals stealing the light and a demon becoming the vessel of light. I know there are also redeemed demons (ever since Cataclysm) but they lost their demonic entity during redemption.

Fel burns and consumes life, magic and souls and the Light is the opposite and it damages demons just as much as undead if not more. Illidan should be crippling in pain when he keeps his demonic entity and not radiate the light more than the sun. And no, you cannot compare it do disc priests either, because they balance shadow and light, which are the two sides and they still have their mortal souls and no demonic.

Besides that: Through the book it’s obvious that Illidan knows what he’s doing and that he doesn’t need the light in order to damage the Legion, it doesn’t enhance the story more than it cripples it. Why would he need to wield the light when the Army of Light doesn’t solely consist of light users but all classes (even demonic warlocks and demon hunters)?

Because no 1 entity or those combined can directly assault a fellow infused Titan. Illidan us a many thousand years old nighters mage who has a demonic entity inside him and he further empowered himself with the skull of guldan, he single handedly opened a portal threw the farthest reaches to Argus. But he is still no match for the dark Titan.

To assume the light has to be in direct conflict with the fel found inside Illidan. Priests can either bolster people with the light or smite them. I doubt heal burns the way smite does. I'm sure it is in the nature of the light to augment itself based on the necessity of the power invoked. In this case to empower Illidan not harm him....it's a buff...not a dot. Why would it have to harm him?

[Qualia]

That one undead is no paladin. You don’t have to be a paladin in order to become a member of the AC/D. It’s nowhere stated or shown that he actually wields the light.
IMO there’s a huge difference in mortals stealing the light and a demon becoming the vessel of light. I know there are also redeemed demons (ever since Cataclysm) but they lost their demonic entity during redemption.

His point was that you don't need to be a paladin, or any specific class for that matter, in order to wield the Light. It's just the matter of having enough willpower or faith in your ability to do it. In other words, as long as you believe very hard that you can use the Light, you can wield it.

Besides that: Through the book it’s obvious that Illidan knows what he’s doing and that he doesn’t need the light in order to damage the Legion, it doesn’t enhance the story more than it cripples it. Why would he need to wield the light when the Army of Light doesn’t solely consist of light users but all classes (even demonic warlocks and demon hunters)?

It's a matter of efficiency. Sure, he can fight the Legion with Fel. He can probably do it with Arcane, or Light, too. Illidan just take the most effective tool to do it - in this case, the most destructive energy (Fel). However, he'd need to fight enemies from the Void after the Legion, and Light are more effective against those. It's one thing if he can't wield the Light at all, but if he can gather enough willpower or faith in his ability to use it, why not?

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I really want them to surprise us and have Illidan reject this light's blessing. It'd be so much more in character for him to shun the light, perhaps using shadow magic instead? A shadow master at the head of the Light's army would be really interesting.

[Deleted]

Because no 1 entity or those combined can directly assault a fellow infused Titan. Illidan us a many thousand years old nighters mage who has a demonic entity inside him and he further empowered himself with the skull of guldan, he single handedly opened a portal threw the farthest reaches to Argus. But he is still no match for the dark Titan.

To assume the light has to be in direct conflict with the fel found inside Illidan. Priests can either bolster people with the light or smite them. I doubt heal burns the way smite does. I'm sure it is in the nature of the light to augment itself based on the necessity of the power invoked. In this case to empower Illidan not harm him....it's a buff...not a dot. Why would it have to harm him?

So Illidan should get to the power level of Sargeras? Yeah he then will be hated WAY more than Green Jesus. I had imagined that’s what Azeroth is there for and not some former? mortal.

The light is the source of life, thus it’s sort of opposing fel magic from it’s very nature.
The light itself is described as agonizingly painful and destructive to undead because their souls are imperfectly attached to their bodies. The dark magic prevents their souls to join their bodies and the light weakens this dark magic thus they feel pain from the light. The same can be said about Demons, because their souls work in a similar manner (Nether, spectral travel, posessions and the like). The majority of holy abilities that had an effect on Undead also had an effect on Demons.

His point was that you don't need to be a paladin, or any specific class for that matter, in order to wield the Light. It's just the matter of having enough willpower or faith in your ability to do it. In other words, as long as you believe very hard that you can use the Light, you can wield it.

Leo doesn’t use the light though. And yeah, you don’t need to be a paladin, however:
Illidan is becoming a vessel of light. He’s literally radiating the light in that vision and vessel of light = paladin thus I pointed it out. It should cause him pain.

It's a matter of efficiency. Sure, he can fight the Legion with Fel. He can probably do it with Arcane, or Light, too. Illidan just take the most effective tool to do it - in this case, the most destructive energy (Fel). However, he'd need to fight enemies from the Void after the Legion, and Light are more effective against those. It's one thing if he can't wield the Light at all, but if he can gather enough willpower or faith in his ability to use it, why not?

You cannot eliminate the void, as the light (and thus the living) can’t exist without the void. Just because some void lords are there somewhere doesn’t automatically mean we have to fight (and kill them) for good or at all, if we can at all or will at all.

And he doesn’t have the willpower of faith. This light is bestowed upon him given for free. He cannot consist of both sides without cutting either. After he went to Argus he encountered Xe’ra for the first time and was granted that holy angel thing vision of him. What did he do when he went back to Outland? He ventured to Auchindoun and corrupted thousands of souls (which are basically light) and twisted them into dark fel magic.
This shows me he doesn’t understand the light at all, which is fine for some demonic anti hero. Not so much for a vessel of light and he certainly doesn’t deserve that the Naaru kiss his ass.

[DeltrusDisc]

So Illidan should get to the power level of Sargeras? Yeah he then will be hated WAY more than Green Jesus. I had imagined that’s what Azeroth is there for and not some former? mortal.

The light is the source of life, thus it’s sort of opposing fel magic from it’s very nature.
The light itself is described as agonizingly painful and destructive to undead because their souls are imperfectly attached to their bodies. The dark magic prevents their souls to join their bodies and the light weakens this dark magic thus they feel pain from the light. The same can be said about Demons, because their souls work in a similar manner (Nether, spectral travel, posessions and the like). The majority of holy abilities that had an effect on Undead also had an effect on Demons.

I disagree.

I'll always be annoyed of/hate Thrall.

[Qualia]

Leo doesn’t use the light though. And yeah, you don’t need to be a paladin, however:
Illidan is becoming a vessel of light. He’s literally radiating the light in that vision and vessel of light = paladin thus I pointed it out. It should cause him pain.

There are two things. Firstly, there is no guarantee that he'd keep the Fel inside his body (I'm not saying this will be the case, just that it's a possibility). It'll be a while from now until he become a vessel of light. There are plenty of time for the Light to cleanse his body, if needed to. Secondly, even if he is to keep the Fel inside his body, it's not unprecedented for him to come in contact with the Light without getting pain, as shown in Illidan, so it might not be a given that Light'd always cause pain to Fel user without any work-around as we thought

Before Illidan could defend himself in any way, a bolt of pure Light blasted from the naaru. It struck his empty eye sockets and filled them with a golden glow. Illidan braced himself for a blast of agony that did not come. In the past such magic had always racked him with pain. It would normally have done the same to any user of fel magic.

After all, there is Lothraxion in the army of Light - a dreadlord / nathrezim cleansed and filled with Light. He doesn't seem to be in pain either - and it was implied that there were more cleansed demon other than him as well.

You cannot eliminate the void, as the light (and thus the living) can’t exist without the void. Just because some void lords are there somewhere doesn’t automatically mean we have to fight (and kill them) for good or at all, if we can at all or will at all.

With the direction the game is going, and what Xe'ra told us / showed Illidan, I'd be very surprised if we aren't going to fight them. Surely we can't destroy the Void, as it's just a cosmic force, but we likely will at least remove the threat for a while by killing some of the more powerful beings from the Void.

The swirl of lights indicated a negative. “No. Your enemy is far greater than Kil’jaeden. Greater even than Sargeras and his Burning Legion.”
<...>
“The Void is a more potent foe by far than the Burning Legion. It is the ultimate opponent of the Light. It will take all the peoples of Azeroth and Outland united to oppose it.” (Xe'ra)
<...>
As Illidan watched, the winged figure rose above the battle, defying gigantic entities of darkness, creations of the evil of the Void.

What enemy from the void, or creations of the evil of the Void, can be considered greater threat than even Sargeras? Is there currently anything other than the Void Lord or the Void / Dark Titan?

And he doesn’t have the willpower of faith. This light is bestowed upon him given for free. He cannot consist of both sides without cutting either. After he went to Argus he encountered Xe’ra for the first time and was granted that holy angel thing vision of him. What did he do when he went back to Outland? He ventured to Auchindoun and corrupted thousands of souls (which are basically light) and twisted them into dark fel magic.
This shows me he doesn’t understand the light at all, which is fine for some demonic anti hero. Not so much for a vessel of light and he certainly doesn’t deserve that the Naaru kiss his ass.

? He doesn't need to understand the light. There is that Titan Keeper / construct in Uldum that was able to wield the Light just by being given enough willpower. Neither was it guaranteed that Illidan will be given the Light for free. The vision hasn't happened yet, he still hasn't become the vessel of light - nor has he used any Light-related ability so far. Even Xe'ra implied that there will be a price, for that matter (if anything, he already had to die, that isn't a small price there).

Additionally, I'm not sure how you get that he "doesn't have willpower". If anything, "Illidan" book showed us that the Demon Hunters all possesses tremendous amount of willpower, or they'd have suicided / gone mad / deflected to the Legion. It's very likely, if not a given, that Illidan'd possess as much, if not more willpower than average Demon Hunter around. That alone would justify him being able to use the light.
It's true that the "having faith in his ability to use it" is more debatable (this is different from just "having faith", mind you). However, one can argue that after being shown that vision by Xe'ra, he must be a lot more confident in his ability to use it when the time comes. Why not? He's seen himself using it effectively, after all.

Lastly, becoming a vessel of the Light doesn't mean he'd stop being an anti-hero. This has been stated multiple times - the Light isn't picky. Illidan can remains the selfish (he is growing out of this, though), power-hungry and reckless anti-hero that he is, and still be able to become a champion of the Light as long as he fulfill the requirement (willpower or faith in his own ability to use the Light). Xe'ra pretty much said he was chosen because he is a good demon-killing machine, not because he was a shining beacon of justice.

[Deleted]

The *child of dark and light* thing don't have to mean he gets holy powers. It might as well just be a reference to him bringing order to the universe ( or whatever) .
Perhaps a redemption story incoming - that he realize he went to far, and join us and our mission? Perhaps taking some restrictions on him self, like only being a mentor for new Demon hunters, spending all spare time fighting the evil within his own body.
Something like that....

[Amnasty]

So Illidan should get to the power level of Sargeras? Yeah he then will be hated WAY more than Green Jesus. I had imagined that’s what Azeroth is there for and not some former? mortal.

The light is the source of life, thus it’s sort of opposing fel magic from it’s very nature.
The light itself is described as agonizingly painful and destructive to undead because their souls are imperfectly attached to their bodies. The dark magic prevents their souls to join their bodies and the light weakens this dark magic thus they feel pain from the light. The same can be said about Demons, because their souls work in a similar manner (Nether, spectral travel, posessions and the like). The majority of holy abilities that had an effect on Undead also had an effect on Demons.


Leo doesn’t use the light though. And yeah, you don’t need to be a paladin, however:
Illidan is becoming a vessel of light. He’s literally radiating the light in that vision and vessel of light = paladin thus I pointed it out. It should cause him pain.


You cannot eliminate the void, as the light (and thus the living) can’t exist without the void. Just because some void lords are there somewhere doesn’t automatically mean we have to fight (and kill them) for good or at all, if we can at all or will at all.

And he doesn’t have the willpower of faith. This light is bestowed upon him given for free. He cannot consist of both sides without cutting either. After he went to Argus he encountered Xe’ra for the first time and was granted that holy angel thing vision of him. What did he do when he went back to Outland? He ventured to Auchindoun and corrupted thousands of souls (which are basically light) and twisted them into dark fel magic.
This shows me he doesn’t understand the light at all, which is fine for some demonic anti hero. Not so much for a vessel of light and he certainly doesn’t deserve that the Naaru kiss his ass.

We still don't know what the price to be paid is. Regarding Azeroth, after what Jeff Kaplan (I think thats who said it) said we will never see an awoken Azeroth, I think they are setting us up to be titans.

Weven know from chronicle that the well of eternity wasn't always there. Regarding the natural state or world's there is 1 extra element that helped order them. Spirit, but while she rested Azeroth she consumed this 5th element and grew very strong. This is why the other elements raged, spirit was what placated, them on other world souls.

When the titans ripped an old god from Azeroth body, the wound was the well of eternity, and it filled with the elemental force of spirit. This is what made Azeroth unique. This is what turn signal tribe of dark trollside into night elves and granted them immortality. This is what has effected all the humanoid races on Azeroth. And I believe this 5th element is what makes our hero's so able to do great things, while not world souls, we live in and around the essence of one that permeates out body. We are Azeroth in the smallest amounts.

I think this is what gives illid a new the unique ability to be the child of light and shadow. His purpose has only ever been for the greater good. Making a new well of eternity, consuming the skull of guldan to oppose Arthas, raising the Naga to have an army to fight withim, using all the souls at the hand of guldan to power a portal to Argus to lead an assault and claim the book of fel names. Illidan is a hero for what the ends justify the means.

This is why he will be the balance the primal power of fel and light need.

[Deleted]

There are two things. Firstly, there is no guarantee that he'd keep the Fel inside his body (I'm not saying this will be the case, just that it's a possibility). It'll be a while from now until he become a vessel of light.

If he loses his demon soul in exchange for the light he basicly changes from demon hunter to paladin. I don’t know if they’d do that, because the whole DH thing starts with gaining a demon soul (sry I can’t link passages like you did because my book is in German x)) and he is the most remarkable demon hunter while paladins have plenty of notable ones (though the majority is dead by now).

Secondly, even if he is to keep the Fel inside his body, it's not unprecedented for him to come in contact with the Light without getting pain, as shown in Illidan, so it might not be a given that Light'd always cause pain to Fel user without any work-around as we thought. After all, there is Lothraxion in the army of Light - a dreadlord / nathrezim cleansed and filled with Light. He doesn't seem to be in pain either - and it was implied that there were more cleansed demon other than him as well.

In the past such magic had always racked him with pain. It would normally have done the same to any user of fel magic.

It’s exactly stated. Light normally racks fel users (and thus demons) with pain. Given by its nature as I explained before. It’s like a magical nature’s law. They are levering the nature’s law in the given universe for Illidan’s apotheosis, which is completely stupid IMO.

We only saw Lothraxion when he was already redeemed. It could also imply that when a demon gets redeemed the whole fel energy leaves his body and thus sticking it’s soul and body correctly together again, so basicly removing the demonic part of the soul altogether. It could still be a painful process, though.

With the direction the game is going, and what Xe'ra told us / showed Illidan, I'd be very surprised if we aren't going to fight them. Surely we can't destroy the Void, as it's just a cosmic force, but we likely will at least remove the threat for a while by killing some of the more powerful beings from the Void.What enemy from the void, or creations of the evil of the Void, can be considered greater threat than even Sargeras? Is there currently anything other than the Void Lord or the Void / Dark Titan?

It is in their nature. The Naaru are pure light, and thus see the void as their opposing force. That doesn’t mean we can or will stop the void (lords). Also we tend to go by our morals meaning light = good and void = bad. We have had some examples in the past where this wasn’t really true though:
Scarlet crusade on a small scale for light and curse of flesh for void. While the curse itself might sound like something bad, take a look where it took the races (vrykul compared to humans, dwarves compared to earthen and so on) most of the affected races developed further than their ancestors (architecture, knowledge, culture, …).

Additionally, I'm not sure how you get that he "doesn't have willpower". It's true that the "having faith in his ability to use it" is more debatable (this is different from just "having faith", mind you). However, one can argue that after being shown that vision by Xe'ra, he must be a lot more confident in his ability to use it when the time comes. Why not? He's seen himself using it effectively, after all.

Lastly, becoming a vessel of the Light doesn't mean he'd stop being an anti-hero. This has been stated multiple times - the Light isn't picky. Illidan can remains the selfish (he is growing out of this, though), power-hungry and reckless anti-hero that he is, and still be able to become a champion of the Light as long as he fulfill the requirement (willpower or faith in his own ability to use the Light). Xe'ra pretty much said he was chosen because he is a good demon-killing machine, not because he was a shining beacon of justice.

Willpower wasn’t the word I was looking for, sorry. Maybe more desire, or interest. If I recall right he doesn’t call it vision though but illusion to show his distrust. Even if it was a vision, it’s not necessarily true, for the simple fact there have been other visions of that army with different leaders. It’s not set in stone, things can change.

While true, we have seen plenty of bad light users, I think it’s a spit in the face for all those devoted ‘good’ light users if devotion (towards the light, moral and justice) leads to nothing exceptional but some selfish power-hungry and reckless anti-hero succeeds them all in light power, without any remorse pain or whatsoever.

[Enthralled]

And he doesn’t have the willpower of faith. This light is bestowed upon him given for free. He cannot consist of both sides without cutting either. After he went to Argus he encountered Xe’ra for the first time and was granted that holy angel thing vision of him. What did he do when he went back to Outland? He ventured to Auchindoun and corrupted thousands of souls (which are basically light) and twisted them into dark fel magic.
This shows me he doesn’t understand the light at all, which is fine for some demonic anti hero. Not so much for a vessel of light and he certainly doesn’t deserve that the Naaru kiss his ass.

I'm not going to argue with you about your opinion of the story, I'm just going to point out that what you say went on in Auchindoun isn't what happened. He didn't "corrupt" those souls, he literally stole them and put them into a big box so that they could be used later as a power source. Saying that he corrupted them implies that he was doing something else, like controlling them as a necromancer would.
Note that I'm not saying that what he did was a wonderful thing. I'm just saying that you're not correct in your interpretation of the events.

[Deleted]

I'm not going to argue with you about your opinion of the story, I'm just going to point out that what you say went on in Auchindoun isn't what happened. He didn't "corrupt" those souls, he literally stole them and put them into a big box so that they could be used later as a power source. Saying that he corrupted them implies that he was doing something else, like controlling them as a necromancer would.
Note that I'm not saying that what he did was a wonderful thing. I'm just saying that you're not correct in your interpretation of the events.

You are right, though my conclusion is still logical. He didn’t corrupt them right away but wanted to store them for some fel/void magic ritual to reach Argus later on, which would’ve corrupted them, though it was not his purpose to corrupt them. Even though “it was for the greater good”. His goal is good, no doubt, but the execution is evil. He could have had another way to get to power (Mana forges), even though he would have had to deal with Kael first.

[Deleted]

Is he reeeeeeeally becoming an angel though? Where do we have canon proof of this? Is it in a Legion questline orrrr?

People do get redemption stories sometimes, though, and he really did always care about people. I think he was a war leader type though, he understood casualties would happen - but he went a little mad too.

Being imprisoned for a week in solitary confinement will destroy your mental well-being... try 10,000 years.

Is he really--- ? I think its funny that you argue against people on forums without trying to research if what they are saying is true. Or maybe its easier to argue than to seek information.

[Tenjen]

Well the new Guldan has a skull too ya know.

With two winstons, the leader of the Azerothian super villains will surely triumph

[thunterman]

Isn't Illidan dead? Like.. dead dead? that's the impression I'm getting.

[Deleted]

All Blizzard can do nowadays is recycle old characters over and over again. It's sad what has become of warcraft today.

[Qualia]

Isn't Illidan dead? Like.. dead dead? that's the impression I'm getting.

Apparently not, seeing he is supposed to become a champion of Light fighting with enemies from the Void later. We meet his soul in Legion, so he isn't dead dead for sure.

[DeltrusDisc]

Is he really--- ? I think its funny that you argue against people on forums without trying to research if what they are saying is true. Or maybe its easier to argue than to seek information.

By asking people, I am seeking out information. I am not saying this ISN'T happening. I am expressing that I am ignorant of the situation and open to hearing. You're the only person who has a problem with it. I think my is he reallyyyy kind of goes along with the overarching majority of people being surprised, to say the least.

I've been out of the game for a long time and haven't read any of the newer books, so I figured I'd find out from the people saying it.

It's okay to be suspicious and surprised, it's not okay to say it's still not happening, after being given proof. I'm no longer doubting him becoming an angel.

[Deleted]

fun to see these theories.

i like how in depth you all are about an expansion that might happen in the future when Legion is not even out yet