Blizzards newest lore retcon [Heavy Spoilers]

[Raetary]

Isn't the succubi the male variant of the race?

no, succubi is the plural of succubus.
incubi is male one.

[Deleted]

I'm not blacking anything out because I've given a spoiler tag in the title, so if you don't want heavy spoilers don't read on.

Several things came as surprised to me after listening to the voice of Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire. From the things said by the blade, and looking on wowpedia, certain things have now been changed around by blizzard in what I can only assume is a retcon.

Before this, we use to assume from what the lore gave us that the old gods were these supremely powerful beings that matched power for power against sargeras and outside of him nobody elves compared to this. Now however we learn that the old gods are infact servents of the void lords, the rulers of the void, creatures that make sargeras look like jimmy olson fighting megatech lexx luthor. Void lords are meant to be so powerful that they are the reason sargeras went nuts and is trying to convert the universe by killing worlds corrupted by the old gods (again servents) meaning there are many many more old gods out there, because said planets are capable of becoming titans, but if the old gods corrupt the planet they will become dark titans and kick sargeras' ass.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_lord

(Thats right, those void callers that warlocks can summon are now apparently the most powerful beings in existence in warcraft lore)

Also, just out of nowhere, it turns out sargeras already killed off all members the pantheon, Aman'Thul, Eonar, Norgannon, Golganneth, Khaz'goroth and Aggramar, all dead, apparently published in World_of_Warcraft:_Chronicle_Volume_1 (http://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_Wa...nicle_Volume_1), just as a side note, nothing we really needed to care about.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Pantheon

I know blizzard can be bad at their lore sometimes, but to me, I'd put having the death of the patheon and the existence of void lords a bit higher up on the list of important lore facts in the games story then wanting to know what emotional state Jainas that month.

The warlock void callers are just creatures of the void. Don't be so fucking melodramatic. Void caller, not void lord. Big difference, if you're not intent on being such a drama queen.

Aggramar might not be dead. The Pantheon was defeated, but aren't outright stated to be dead and gone. A few-infused Sargeras barely beat them with his new demon armies.

- - - Updated - - -

no, succubi is the plural of succubus.
incubi is male one.

Their race isn't called succubi. They're calleD Sayaad.

Succubus and incubus are names taken from DnD that describe demons. That they're still called succumb us is just convenience.

[Deleted]

Isn't the succubi the male variant of the race?

Traditionally in fantasy/mythology the male variation of a Succubus is an Incubus, plural: Incubi. We have yet to see them in WoW though, and the Succubi are actually named Saiyaad so it probably doesn't apply for Blizzard's cosmology.

[bloodmoth13]

I'm not blacking anything out because I've given a spoiler tag in the title, so if you don't want heavy spoilers don't read on.

Several things came as surprised to me after listening to the voice of Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire. From the things said by the blade, and looking on wowpedia, certain things have now been changed around by blizzard in what I can only assume is a retcon.

Before this, we use to assume from what the lore gave us that the old gods were these supremely powerful beings that matched power for power against sargeras and outside of him nobody elves compared to this. Now however we learn that the old gods are infact servents of the void lords, the rulers of the void, creatures that make sargeras look like jimmy olson fighting megatech lexx luthor. Void lords are meant to be so powerful that they are the reason sargeras went nuts and is trying to convert the universe by killing worlds corrupted by the old gods (again servents) meaning there are many many more old gods out there, because said planets are capable of becoming titans, but if the old gods corrupt the planet they will become dark titans and kick sargeras' ass.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_lord

(Thats right, those void callers that warlocks can summon are now apparently the most powerful beings in existence in warcraft lore)

Also, just out of nowhere, it turns out sargeras already killed off all members the pantheon, Aman'Thul, Eonar, Norgannon, Golganneth, Khaz'goroth and Aggramar, all dead, apparently published in World_of_Warcraft:_Chronicle_Volume_1 (http://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_Wa...nicle_Volume_1), just as a side note, nothing we really needed to care about.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Pantheon

I know blizzard can be bad at their lore sometimes, but to me, I'd put having the death of the patheon and the existence of void lords a bit higher up on the list of important lore facts in the games story then wanting to know what emotional state Jainas that month.

UGHGHGHHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH

There is nothing that states the void lords power, sargeras just knows what their intentions are and that accumulatively have the potential to end the universe, that doesnt mean we know shit about them, in fact the void lords are relatively weak they intend to use the power of the sleeping titan azeroth as some mega avatar to enact their plan, its like saying north koreans are godzilla people because they have nukes, there are some serious logical misteps with these conclusions!

as for the old gods, they are still incredibly powerful with what tehy can potentially do, which is corrupt the most powerful entity the universe has ever seen, this is why sargeras' main plan is to hunt world souls and extinguish them, because the void lords intend to use them as avatars. The titans are still the most powerful entities in our universe, the void lord plans are to basically pilot a titan, the old gods are the void lords best attempts at creating avatars in our dimension.

Sargeras fears other titans, particularly azeroth who the pantheon recognized as potentially most powerful world soul they have ever discovered.

The void lords are more of a force of nature than real physical threats, in our universe they are more like a plague. The void itself is one of the prime elements of creation along with the light, the voids purpose is to consume, they are essentially just a force of destruction whose sole purpose is to destroy existence, that raw destructive purpose attached to the power of a titan could wreak havok on the universe which is what caused sargeras to flip out

[Cernunnos]

My only real issue with lore changes/retcons is so much of it happens outside of the games.

I bought chronicle for the one reason it is intended to be, a place where all the assorted lores from all the games and novels can officially be called canon. But it's yet another book outside of the game.

The novels, the comics, the harbinger series, the lords of War series are great, but they are outside the game. I would just as easily have taken a book on a shelf in dalaran/new dalaran I could read in game, and some updated quest text here and there to keep things in line. Something that doesn't require me go a website or buy a book.

Warcraft/World of Warcraft has a huge amount of backstory and lore but the majority of it doesn't happen in game. You have to purchase or find copies online to get the story, and then until Chronicle came along, you had the issue of ok. so in the game this happens, but the book from some author who isn't blizz says this, so which is correct?

I've slowly come to terms with the Draenei WCIII/WOW retcon from being native to draenor and looking like broken ones to being eredar and crashlanding on draenor. So massive retcon changes aren't new, and do happen from time to time, at least this one was kind of ingame, since all the draenei NPCs and quest text tell the story, point is, it's in game. It doesn't require you to hunt for which books give you the backstory to the race in full.

[3DTyrant]

Traditionally in fantasy/mythology the male variation of a Succubus is an Incubus, plural: Incubi. We have yet to see them in WoW though, and the Succubi are actually named Saiyaad so it probably doesn't apply for Blizzard's cosmology.

no, succubi is the plural of succubus.
incubi is male one.

Ah yeah, my mistake, I knew there was a male name for them, but couldn't remember what it was, I just derp.

[Flatspriest]

Succubus and incubus are names taken from DnD that describe demons. That they're still called succumb us is just convenience.

LMAO. The names Succubus and Incubus have been around MUCH longer than DnD.

[Samesnotatroll]

This has already been confirmed I thought? One of the void lords talking bout how Dimensius from Outlands was a weakling version of the true void lords, and the void guys in outland were definitely related to the warlock pets.

[Deleted]

Ah yeah, my mistake, I knew there was a male name for them, but couldn't remember what it was, I just derp.

Don't worry, more than enough huge nerds around to help out with arcane nomenclature

[Raetary]

Succubus and incubus are names taken from DnD that describe demons. That they're still called succumb us is just convenience.

actually, no.
both words are far longer on earth than DnD.
both words are derived from late latin, incubo (incubus) and succuba (succubus)

The word "Succubus" originates from the late 14th century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus

[Taeldorian]

Let's face it - they are preparing to increase longevity of franchise. Now we can kill sargeras (in epic raid finder difficulty) without asking "what next". Its just simple. Other than that, life will be as it was.

This. I think its perfectly fine they are creating new lore. I and Im sure many others want WoW to last for as long as possible, its one of the only games out there I currently really really enjoy despite WoD being a thing, so if they are going to make new lore in order to expand the game, so be it. As long as the lore is good, which imo it is, then its fine.

Im not going to look for the quote now, but Blizzard has stated in the past that they will create new lore, new zones, etc so the game can be continued. It wasnt word for word like that of course, but it was along the lines of *who says we cant create new lore or places in the future*. Can probably find it if you look for it.

Im totally fine with them creating new lore in order to expand on the game. Lets be honest, WoW is a game with a lot of rich lore and backstory, so they should be able to add to that as they please and create new lore and such as we go.

[Bumbac]

Spoiler!

Thrall is not troll race, he is orc.

Retcon avoided. Thanks for your attention. Spoiler over.

[Soeroah]

The only reason Chronicle was released and has such big, important lore facts in it instead of the game is exactly because those reveals are so enormous that they largely aren't relevant to the game's lore beyond ancient history or nebulous possibility.

You don't go through your life worrying about black holes or gamma ray bursts or the fact Andromeda's gonna collide with our own galaxy in a few billion years or so. That's way bigger than you, it's not relevant.

Likewise, all the characters of the game need to know about what we learned in Chronicle, if anything, is how to beat the Legion, potentially what happened to the Titans and what's the real deal with Azeroth's nature. But those are all largely "oh, wow, my world view is shattered but I gotta go stop these bandits from killing this innocent family".

What use is knowing ancient creators who built your world are now dead to an average person, or even a king, when hundreds of thousands of years have gone by without said creators being on the planet, let alone having any significant effect on it? Sure, Loken's betrayal was an effect, but our characters and the NPCs have consistently shown they don't care WHY something's happening, only that it is and how do we stop it?

[shaunika123]

so thats the aim every time then, build up a big baddy every time, but when we get close to possibly beating them, just then say 'oh no theres someone else even more powerful'.

.

well dragonball z was very succesful doing exactly that.

[Freddiee]

There is nothing that states the void lords power

Didnt chronicles state the degree of their power to be so immense that they could will the universe to be destroyed, but they cannot manifest in our reality/dimension, which is why they created the "old gods" and stuff.

Their influence alone corrupted on of the most powerful beings in existence, that alone is scary.

[olddog]

Xal'atath says: I long for the day our masters can truly pass into this realm. You have only seen fragments, shadows; the faintest of echoes. ask the Ethereals what one of these manifestations are capable of.​"

Dimensius is a fragment of the void lord. in other words, voidlords are manifestations of the void lords. in a sense, they are same things.

[Qualia]

Didnt chronicles state the degree of their power to be so immense that they could will the universe to be destroyed, but they cannot manifest in our reality/dimension, which is why they created the "old gods" and stuff.

Their influence alone corrupted on of the most powerful beings in existence, that alone is scary.

No, it didn't. Also, some of the most powerful among them can manifest in our universe just fine - it's just that they have a time limit for that and need to consume a massive amount of energy & matter to maintain their manifestation. That's how the Old Gods get to every planets, those most powerful Void Lords manifested (for a while) and then threw the Old Gods around the universe randomly hoping to get a bingo. Sargeras even found out about them when they manifested and attempted to corrupt the Pantheon (and failed) - if they were so powerful that they could destroy the universe at will, I doubt Sargeras would just continue hunting demon without even reporting to the Pantheon.

[Freddiee]

No, it didn't. Also, some of the most powerful among them can manifest in our universe just fine - it's just that they have a time limit for that and need to consume a massive amount of energy & matter to maintain their manifestation. That's how the Old Gods get to every planets, those most powerful Void Lords manifested (for a while) and then threw the Old Gods around the universe randomly hoping to get a bingo. Sargeras even found out about them when they manifested and attempted to corrupt the Pantheon (and failed) - if they were so powerful that they could destroy the universe at will, I doubt Sargeras would just continue hunting demon without even reporting to the Pantheon.

I stand corrected, reread it now. Seems my memory made it way more dramatic than it actually was ;P

[bloodmoth13]

Didnt chronicles state the degree of their power to be so immense that they could will the universe to be destroyed, but they cannot manifest in our reality/dimension, which is why they created the "old gods" and stuff.

Their influence alone corrupted on of the most powerful beings in existence, that alone is scary.

scary sure, but fear doesnt need a physical form, the misconception im against is that the void lords are bigger and stronger in a traditional sense, but the fact is we dont really know much about them and cant conclude that from what we know, its kind of like bacteria, saying that ebola could beat someone in a fist fight is ridiculous, but it can kill someone, same concept, its destructive and powerful, but not in a physically manifested way, sargeras is fighting a galactic disease and destroying any host that may incubate it. And as for their power, yeah, its a force of nature, its like saying atoms are powerful, they are in the right conditions, but they need to be utilized correctly, you with a small amount you can create a nuclear war head, but that requires the right form.

I think players are vastly overestimating what the void lords are, for instance id be more afraid of a plague than some big dude wanting to pick a fight, thats what drove sargeras to madness, he wants to quarantine the outbreak of void corruption and wouldnt risk azeroth incubating it while the pantheon disagreed and insisted otherwise

[Ragedaug]

No lore has not been massively retconned, just slightly changed, we now have a more of a reason WHY Sargeras did what he did, instead of "eh i don't like order anymore" deal...

What official lore has been changed? I see a lot of times where there are things added to lore and people shout "RETCON!!" even though nothing previous was changed, just explained.


On a side note, I heard George Lucas attempted to explain Sargeras' fall, but Blizz turned it down due to cheese.

"From my point of view the Titans are evil!"