How did Sylvanas do it?

[Mehrunes]

But trolls wren't a problem before zul'jin, you deny that? the elves kick thei ass every single time they try something because they are desorganzied, Saurfang was the second in command in the final of first war too

He wasn't. There's zero lore sources mentioning that. The only lore source saying anything him being a second-in-command (other than being one to Garrosh during WotLK) is him being made one by Orgrim after he took over the Horde. I.e. after the First War was already over. And with that in mind whether Trolls were a problem prior to Zul'jin or not matters nothing. If you base Saurfang having more experience than Sylvanas due to him being second-in-command of the Horde being more important than the war against Trolls prior to Zul'jin, and only Trolls post Zul'jin counting, then you end up with Saurfang still being on the losing side in terms of time spent gaining that experience.

Saurfang fight the third war too, but i think i expressed myself badly, if you look an war, some wars have more battles than others, i said the wars saurfang fight have more battles than the war of sylvannas, sure i can be wrong, but the first and the second wars were very long,

And yet we know absolutely nothing about his involvement in Third War other than vague mentions about him being a veteran of it. He's a veteran of the war against the Iron Horde and Fel Iron Horde too. All he did during that time was visit the Garrison every now and then. And we know nothing about how many battlers were fought precisely during these wars or most other wars, let alone which were led by Saurfang.

And if we will talk about killing the trolls( who i still see this like conflicts not wars) i can say saurfang kill ogres, grons and others orcs prior the horde, the blackrock was insane like the warsong

Which still ends with Sylvanas most likely being much older and as such having done such things longer than Saurfang.

and did Sylvannas effective fight in the second war? serious question cause what i remember is she sister going to war, and Sylvannas defending one attack and hunting some orcs down

Alleria went with one small group to pursue her vendetta. Sylvanas led the whole army of Quel'thalas.

why not, if he can hold the hearts of all, and make alliance and horde of that time to endure and not to kill, it shows that he knows how to lead

There wasn't anything to hold, Alliance and the Horde weren't at war then. He just led a mixed forces army. Just like Sylvanas did at Broken Shore and will do in Legion.

[Morrigenn]

you know that undead show barely positive emotion and are rude by nature right?

Didn't realize so many posters were undead...

[steelballfc]

Sylvanas was the best of the three windrunner sisters and had the most responsibility. she couldn't run off like Alleria or go awol like vereesa.


Sylvanas was in charge of quelthalas's defense, and the horde didn't get very far into it, even with the ogre mages

that was because Gul'dan betrayal

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i think he just put his head on the spike the first time, or is just like we killed onyxia but lore-wise was varyan, then Saurfang killed him lore-wise?

as i remember after Varian and the Alliance killed Onyxia, Thrall needed a strong Dragon head for the Horde " also the game needed a Dragon head in Orgrimmar like the one in Alliance", so Thrall asked Saurfang to kill a Dragon, and that what Saurfang " with us" did.

[Zyky]

Saurfang has experience leading armies and is respected. However, Saurfang is also old. And probably quite tired of war. He had to carry his only son off ICC. He couldn't help Garrosh turn himself around, even though he tried.

Saurfang is also impulsive and feels like he lost his honor by retreating at the broken shore. He literally flies to his death with Warriors before selecting an artifact. It's assumed he dies from either the fel cannon shot or the massive fall from falling off the Wyvern. Saurfang isn't tired of war, his head is just too thick to be a leader. He lacks the finesse to be a good leader, he would just order all the solders to die.

[Garkanh]

The horde is going the German Route.a

Garrosh was the last king of Prussia, and emperor of Germany. He did what he thought was right, but was removed for it in the end. (Alright, Garrosh was worse than Wilhelm II, whom was actualy a decent guy)
Sylvanas is Hitler. A leader who rose to power in dire times. A leader who will do anything to further her own goals.
Vol'jin was the leaders in between whom noone remembers.

[Tenjen]

Yes they're going to revolt in the middle of a demonic invasion. She's earned enough clout and its the middle of an extinction event, they're going to do all they can to beat the legion back. her being the temp leader is an issue for later.

[Friendlyimmolation]

that was because Gul'dan betrayal

guldan hadnt fled yet.

[Arrashi]

The horde is going the German Route.a

Garrosh was the last king of Prussia, and emperor of Germany. He did what he thought was right, but was removed for it in the end. (Alright, Garrosh was worse than Wilhelm II, whom was actualy a decent guy)
Sylvanas is Hitler. A leader who rose to power in dire times. A leader who will do anything to further her own goals.
Vol'jin was the leaders in between whom noone remembers.

But who was jews ?

[Garkanh]

But who was jews ?

anyone she deems a threat to herself and the forsaken/horde. she doesn't seem to be shy of using her plague(gas)

[Friendlyimmolation]

anyone she deems a threat to herself and the forsaken/horde. she doesn't seem to be shy of using her plague(gas)

Sigh. This again? The plague is a hilariously nice weapon compared to other weapons both the Horde and Alliance use.

[Syegfryed]

Saurfang is also impulsive and feels like he lost his honor by retreating at the broken shore. He literally flies to his death with Warriors before selecting an artifact. It's assumed he dies from either the fel cannon shot or the massive fall from falling off the Wyvern. Saurfang isn't tired of war, his head is just too thick to be a leader. He lacks the finesse to be a good leader, he would just order all the solders to die.

he said he do not want fly to his death, he just want kill demons until he feels better, he dont even ask the player to go, and he never order the soldiers die for nothing

as i remember after Varian and the Alliance killed Onyxia, Thrall needed a strong Dragon head for the Horde " also the game needed a Dragon head in Orgrimmar like the one in Alliance", so Thrall asked Saurfang to kill a Dragon, and that what Saurfang " with us" did.[/QUOTE]

that is interesting to know

[Traveler Voltin]

i will restate this again.
Sylvanas did not lose to gilneas.

Darius surrendered. therefore she won.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

What a traitor, Garrosh would roll in his grave if he realized they let that bitch take his place.

Hey, I hate her too... but if he would've said nothing, the Horde had no leader and would've fought amongst themselves. Then they could've fallen apart and the Alliance would have to fight the Legion alone.

I guess this is better. This way, the previous warchief names the new one, like it 'always' has been done...

[Pizzakid2093]

Sylvanas literally died defending the Sunwell along with all her troops. What dishonor?

if you honestly don't know what dishonor then you haven't been paying attention at all since WC3

[therealbowser]

Its not perfectly clear,we are missing a cutscene/cinematic right after the Broken shore event that will probably answer your question.

This. But I hope it actually makes sense and isn't just forced... given Blizzard's track record, though, let's just say I'm not optimistic about it.

[Zyky]

he said he do not want fly to his death, he just want kill demons until he feels better, he dont even ask the player to go, and he never order the soldiers die for nothing

as i remember after Varian and the Alliance killed Onyxia, Thrall needed a strong Dragon head for the Horde " also the game needed a Dragon head in Orgrimmar like the one in Alliance", so Thrall asked Saurfang to kill a Dragon, and that what Saurfang " with us" did.

That's impulsive. Also he didn't ask you to go, Etrigg asked you to go and make sure he didn't do something stupid. So yes he's impulsive and rather than ever calling for a retreat he would have the entire army die, unlike Sylvanas. If Saurfang was leading the force he would have caused the entire force on the broken shore to die.

[Zulkhan]

I personnally think they just made her warchief because most horde players are BE, but Lorthemar is an Ally fanboy

Nah, they're blatantly cooking a story for Sylvanas. Chances even are for it to be her conclusive arc.

Orcs can have their own Warchief.
Then we just need a new title for leader of the Horde.

There are way more chances that an Orc will eventually take the Warchief position once again, rather than having the iconic leadership of the Horde renamed into some new title pulled from someone's ass.