Opposition to abortion doesn't necessarily make someone a bigot.

[Endus]

Based on that statement does that mean you support anti-vaxxers?

In that I think an adult should be free to choose not to vaccinate themselves, sure.

In their claims that they don't believe vaccines work, or are dangerous? No. In their desire to put their children at unconscionable risk of disease? No.

[Deleted]

I personally think that the childrens life is more important that if you're not ready to have it, you should abort it before it becomes a child.

What i mean is, that if you're 13 years old and get pregnant it will obviously mess up your whole life having to carry it around for 9 months, giving both psychological traumas and making it a very hard time to keep track of school and also to have friends, even if you do decide to let somebody else take care of it. If she, on the other hand, decides to keep the child at the age of 14 there's no fucking way that child will turn out good. No way. Not one.

Now, instead of an extreme example I'll use the example that would-be me if my girlfriend got pregnant:

We're both 21. We are poor as fuck and we are university students on first and second year. If we got pregnant, it would be because of the pill not working or a condom breaking: Not by choice.

We both know it's a possibility, so we have actually discussed it. The problem here would be that none of us feel ready to be parents, and none of us have enough money to actually properly support a child, let alone give it a nice home with healthy food. I'm not religious, so I can't see ANY reasoning as to why we shouldn't be allowed to abort the fetus, since it isn't more of a human than the cow we just ate for dinner.

I guesss my TLDR is don't force children on somebody who doesn't think they are ready. It will ruin the childs life (which is more important) and the parents as well.

[therayeffect]

There are very few people who are pro-abortion and pro-birth. I tend to dislike people who are either of these. Personally, I don't mind people who are pro-life since I do care too, as someone who is pro-choice but I understand that it'll be bad for 2 lives if a life comes too early. The last thing I want is for a child to be raised in a family that they shouldn't be a part of. It's a big responsibility and I'd much rather have people be ready. I do wish our Gov't would help people feel ready so it doesn't feel like such a huge burden on a person to raise a child but they'll all rather continue to argue about dumb things. If we help child-raising then it'll hurt people who don't want anything to do with children. Kind of no easy answer for a lot of our problems for today.

[Paranoid Android]

I don't see bigotry on the left or pro-choice side. I guess if you want to argue on the religious end and people just shout down your religious views. The science part no matter what side is not bigotry.

The argument of "I hate women if I am pro-life," I really do not see argued. I honestly think the OP is creating something that is no their. So to be clear, I am not talking about a majority argument.

[dubious_doomhammer]

Based on that statement does that mean you support anti-vaxxers?

"Anti-vaxxers" usually applies to parents not vaccinating their children, which is a different debate entirely. His argument was about ones OWN body, not the bodies of children who are likely incapable of making that choice for themselves.

[May90]

Honestly, I can't take seriously someone who values an unconscious fetus over a well-being of a conscious self-aware woman. I mean, you are not necessarily a bigot if you think that abortion is wrong - but trying to take away the option of abortion from a woman in need of it, just because you think it is wrong, is bigoted.

The laws we have apply to born humans and animals. You don't get to say that "fetus has some rights", unless you are willing to rewrite the whole system of laws with that in mind - and for what? Just to save from mutilation a being that is less developed than an ant?

[Total Crica]

i dont want children, if my country outlaws abortion, THEY will have to raise any children im forced to birth, not me

[Traveler Voltin]

I think it should be outlawed, not because I'm overly religious but because I think children are precious gifts, not burdens. And that pregnant women in distress are tricked into believing an abortion is in their best interests when in reality they'll regret it for the rest of their lives.

It's like convincing a starving man to swallow poison to sate his hunger. We need to protect women from falling for it.

And before someone calls me a sexist, there are countless women out there who agree. My wife included. As a matter of the fact she changed my mind on the issue.

what about in times where a pregnancy becomes life threatening?
for the baby
for the mother
or both.

[Sargerasraider]

That is, in fact, my entire point. That the zygote is more comparable to that piece of liver tissue, and that the pro-life advocacy movement has no actual rational grounds for claiming otherwise.

I cannot rationalize this argument. Your piece of liver tissue has no further potential. If given optimal conditions, it remains a piece of tissue. The same goes for gametes. A zygote is a genetically distinct individual organism.

This being said, I still would like your input on how far along in one should be able to terminate. Viability? Birth? Until the child can go kill his or her own food?

Scientifically, we should probably use the same measures for the beginning of a human life that we do to establish the end of one. Namely, coherent brain activity. In the first term, that doesn't exist, in the fetus. It's technically "alive", but in the same sense that a brain-dead corpse that's being sustained on life support may be. That corpse isn't a "person" just because something else is keeping it from cell death.

Brain death is defined as -irreversible- cessation of brain function. It is patently obvious that, left alone, brain activity will develop. Any sort of "brain death" argument is irrelevant to this discussion as it is an apples and oranges comparison.

When someone dies due to negligence, that's absolutely something that's investigated and charged. You don't see it come out a lot in hospitals because hospital environments have multitudes of witnesses and detailed records of everything, so there's no confusion about what actually happened.

Don't blame me for the silly idea that miscarriages should be investigated. You folks are the ones who claimed abortions are homicides. And miscarriages are abortions.

The only people who even attempt such an argument have been people on the left attempting to scare others. This is the very definition of a straw man. Also, I'm well aware of the fact that the medical term for a miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. Again there is as much similarity between this and a therapeutic abortion as there is between a person dying from some natural process and deliberate killing.

[dubious_doomhammer]

I cannot rationalize this argument. Your piece of liver tissue has no further potential. If given optimal conditions, it remains a piece of tissue. The same goes for gametes. A zygote is a genetically distinct individual organism.

This being said, I still would like your input on how far along in one should be able to terminate. Viability? Birth? Until the child can go kill his or her own food?



Brain death is defined as -irreversible- cessation of brain function. It is patently obvious that, left alone, brain activity will develop. Any sort of "brain death" argument is irrelevant to this discussion as it is an apples and oranges comparison.



The only people who even attempt such an argument have been people on the left attempting to scare others. This is the very definition of a straw man. Also, I'm well aware of the fact that the medical term for a miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. Again there is as much similarity between this and a therapeutic abortion as there is between a person dying from some natural process and deliberate killing.

That's all fine and well, but are you personally willing to take responsibility for the unwanted children that you're trying to force women to have?

Because if you aren't ... a childhood of misery, poverty, neglect, and a plethora of other things await that "potential".

[Symphonic]

i dont want children, if my country outlaws abortion, THEY will have to raise any children im forced to birth, not me

Why not just have a minor surgery to remove any possibility of getting pregnant? It's way more expensive to abort than to have surgery to make it impossible to get pregnant. I despise anyone using abortion as birth control.

[Sargerasraider]

That's all fine and well, but are you personally willing to take responsibility for the unwanted children that you're trying to force women to have?

Because if you aren't ... a childhood of misery, poverty, neglect, and a plethora of other things await that "potential".

This argument is spouted ad infinitum and is silly. A belief that an entity has a right to life does not necessitate a belief that one has to provide whatever support is needed for that life later.

Should we abolish murder laws because some of the people who would be murdered have difficulty taking care of themselves?

Should we abolish laws against the killing of disabled and elderly people? Same argument.

[May90]

Why not just have a minor surgery to remove any possibility of getting pregnant? It's way more expensive to abort than to have surgery to make it impossible to get pregnant. I despise anyone using abortion as birth control.

People change their minds. I didn't want kids a year ago, but now I wouldn't mind having them. Permanent sterilization isn't a very wise solution, compared to alternatives.

Or is it not permanent? I might be a bit behind the progress here...

[GrinningMan]

Jesus christ just don't flap your cunt out in the wind unless your boy has a condom and you're on birth control. If the baby comes out wearing body armor, you know he's ready for the real world because he survived two forms of birth control.

[Symphonic]

That's all fine and well, but are you personally willing to take responsibility for the unwanted children that you're trying to force women to have?

Because if you aren't ... a childhood of misery, poverty, neglect, and a plethora of other things await that "potential".

Im more than willing to fight for easier adoption. The baby is the parents responsibility, and they should receive the support they need in all cases. I don't understand how someone can think "well, we had sex and got pregnant, but I didn't want s baby yet, I guess we can terminate him and wait until I'm ready." Pro-tip: you're never ready for kids. That being said, if someone feels unable to be a good provider for the child, they can easily find adoptive parents. So many are looking to adopt a newborn baby, and it's sad, but they're way more likely to be adopted than a child who has been through 3 sets of foster parents and has not been raised how you would have raised them.
I am so glad people adopt children. My mother was adopted, and I have a brother who had two boys that were adopted out to a wonderful family. Adoption is important and a much better alternative than killing an unborn baby simply because you don't feel prepared.

- - - Updated - - -

People change their minds. I didn't want kids a year ago, but now I wouldn't mind having them. Permanent sterilization isn't a very wise solution, compared to alternatives.

Or is it not permanent? I might be a bit behind the progress here...

There are a couple different ways. Reversible ways essentially crimp the tubes to make sure nothing gets through (though like a condom it's more like 99.9%). There is another that snips the tube and then crimps then together, but is reversible through another surgery to repair the tube. Then of course there are irreversible ways.

[Juvencus]

I think it should be outlawed, not because I'm overly religious but because I think children are precious gifts, not burdens. And that pregnant women in distress are tricked into believing an abortion is in their best interests when in reality they'll regret it for the rest of their lives.

It's like convincing a starving man to swallow poison to sate his hunger. We need to protect women from falling for it.

And before someone calls me a sexist, there are countless women out there who agree. My wife included. As a matter of the fact she changed my mind on the issue.

Children are gifts. Unwanted children are burdens.

And you just described antibiotics. Swallowing poison to kill an unwanted organism.

Unwanted children are pretty much parasites on the mother.

[Citizen T]

That's all fine and well, but are you personally willing to take responsibility for the unwanted children that you're trying to force women to have?

Because if you aren't ... a childhood of misery, poverty, neglect, and a plethora of other things await that "potential".

Then by extension do you advocate just killing all the children that currently living a life of misery, poverty, neglect, and a plethora of other things that await? Surely they shouldn't have to continue their suffering.

[Sargerasraider]

Children are gifts. Unwanted children are burdens.

And you just described antibiotics. Swallowing poison to kill an unwanted organism.

Unwanted children are pretty much parasites on the mother.

So, you are arguing that we should kill all of the unwanted and undesirable people in our society?

[Tempguy]

I think both sides are wrong and this whole picking teams shit is stupid.


I am pro life. However, I am pro "that's not my kid or my body so I gives two fucks if you want to exterminate your genetic line". Worlds over crowded as it is.

Pro lifers want kid to be born but do t give a fuck about them after the point. Unless you are willing to support legislation that guarantees every child will be taken care of despite the parents ability or desire then (and only then) do you have ground to stand on.

Pro choices I disagree with cause they act like the child is a parasite and only the mother has any say in whether it lives or dies. Fuck what the dad wants. A woman can decide to kill a child for any reason she wants so long as it is early enough. And yeah yeah. Traumatic, emotional whatever. Doesn't stop dumb bitches like Kacey Jordan from using an abortion as her version of the morning after pill.


So fuck both sides. So long as my babies are good and no one interferes in my life I gives two fucks. I'm pro "mind your fucking business and stay in your lane".

[GennGreymane]

So, you are arguing that we should kill all of the unwanted and undesirable people in our society?

Are these people inside of you? Because if they are thats a problem.

- - - Updated - - -

I must ask

Why is it that areas with abstinence only sex ed have higher teen pregnancy rates?

Wanna reduce abortions? Why not have actual sex ed!

(this is not directed at the guy I am quoted, this is just another point I want to make)