Legion Warlock can't die in PvP

[DeadmanWalking]

I really cannot understand why people cry about this. Warlocks have always been more durable. They said they would make them more tanky with less mobility. Have you seen fire mage burst while they move? Or the blink while casting another spell (this is lol)? Every class has its perks. Stop crying

You mean the fire mage talent that allows them to cast a spell while moving and they can activate it 3 times? Ice Floes.

When arguing class balance try not to say the Mage word, it triggers a lot of warlock players.

[Smog]

You mean the fire mage talent that allows them to cast a spell while moving and they can activate it 3 times? Ice Floes.

They don't need Ice Floes to do that. PF>PF>Pyro(Combust midair)>FB>Pyro>FB>Pyro>PF>Pyro.

7 globals: 3 Phoenix Flames, 7 Pyroblasts, 2 Fireblasts, all combusting, all instant, all while moving, all crit.

The blink he's talking about is Shimmer.

[DeadmanWalking]

They don't need Ice Floes to do that. PF>PF>Pyro(Combust midair)>FB>Pyro>FB>Pyro>PF>Pyro.

7 globals: 3 Phoenix Flames, 7 Pyroblasts, 2 Fireblasts, all combusting, all instant, all while moving, all crit.

The blink he's talking about is Shimmer.

*gains a facial tick from the Mage triggering...

[Kjarl Grimblood]

Now that youre done crying about Warlocks, let's talk about them Outlaw Rogues...

[Faust843]

Now that youre done crying about Warlocks, let's talk about them Outlaw Rogues...

They will stop crying about warlocks, only when they are nerfed to the ground, while some classes like DK, hunter or mage can be OP for 2 or 3 expansions in a row, and Blizzard don't give a damn about this.

[Kjarl Grimblood]

They will stop crying about warlocks, only when they are nerfed to the ground, while some classes like DK, hunter or mage can be OP for 2 or 3 expansions in a row, and Blizzard don't give a damn about this.

i dunno, in pvp i rek both hunters and mages :>
maybe you refering to pve?

[Faust843]

i dunno, in pvp i rek both hunters and mages :>
maybe you refering to pve?

I refer to previous expansions and patches. For example hunters were already very strong in MoP, but in the WoD they didn't nerf them, they buffed them a lot, so they become a real cancer. But i highly doubt that warlocks will remain in current state, because balancers in Blizz hate locks for some reason. Warlock is finally fun to play (before only fun for me was 3x3 as affli), and i won't say it is so overpowered, it's just better that some classes that are not overtuned right now. For 2 melees (especially rogues) it's not so hard to kill a lock, we don't have that much mobility, we just became more durable. Good rogue + warrior still going to kill you.

[Kjarl Grimblood]

I refer to previous expansions and patches. For example hunters were already very strong in MoP, but in the WoD they didn't nerf them, they buffed them a lot, so they become a real cancer. But i highly doubt that warlocks will remain in current state, because balancers in Blizz hate locks for some reason. Warlock is finally fun to play (before only fun for me was 3x3 as affli), and i won't say it is so overpowered, it's just better that some classes that are not overtuned right now. For 2 melees (especially rogues) it's not so hard to kill a lock, we don't have that much mobility, we just became more durable. Good rogue + warrior still going to kill you.

Arms Warriors are strong AF! Same goes for good Outlaw Rogue.
From personal experience, when i get jumped by two rogues as affliction - i dont get out of this alive.

[ThePhantombox]

You don't outdamage someone as Affli. You outlast them.

This^^^^^^

[Kirroth]

This^^^^^^

Indeed. Which is why the class that gives Afflic the most trouble is Rogues, all because of Cloak of Shadows. Not only does it clear your DoTs, but it makes them basically immune to everything you do for 5 seconds. This is troublesome because unlike the passive DR of Demo or Destro a lot of Afflic's lasting power comes from dealing damage. No damage means no healing from Drain Life or Siphon Life, it means no shield from Soul Leech, and you can't even Fear the Rogue to wait out the effect.

I've found encounters with Rogues turns into a game of chicken. If I can pressure them into using Cloak early then I still have enough time to reapply DoTs and dump SS into UA stacks so that they die before I do. If they get the early pressure on me they can Cloak as an execute tool so that they're immune to CC while denying me self-healing long enough to finish me off. If we're both starting fresh I have pretty good odds, but if they catch me after I've just fought someone else and haven't recharged yet? That's a losing situation for me. And don't even ask about a 2v1 against a Rogue with a friend. In a lot of 2v1 situations I can stall a surprisingly long time and probably take at least one down with me, but against a Rogue with a friend I'm dead meat. Which is probably a good thing, from a balance perspective, but it's smart to know what our natural predators are.

[Rayaleith]

They don't need Ice Floes to do that. PF>PF>Pyro(Combust midair)>FB>Pyro>FB>Pyro>PF>Pyro.

7 globals: 3 Phoenix Flames, 7 Pyroblasts, 2 Fireblasts, all combusting, all instant, all while moving, all crit.

The blink he's talking about is Shimmer.

I meant exactly this. They invented new mechanics just for the fire mages! Being able to blink while casting, Combustion while spell is flying towards the target, 2 different spells with 3 charges each (with the pvp talent) that are instant and always crit. Now locks eat your life slowly and are very tanky. If they were not tanky, how would they counter scandalous burst of mages?

Think of windwalkers. Imagine now a non-tanking lock against a windwalker. Or Rogues' burst. Or, or or... So, yes affli might outlast these guys in 1vs1 but is this a reason for a nerf? :O

[Deleted]

Warlocks are tanky, mages are squishy but mobile, as it should be in my opinion. Cry more.

[Nighelf]

Its not that warlocks are tanky, they are pretty much indestructible at the moment.

I BG, i got jumped by a rogue when i had %15 hp, he died , i lived. With only use of drain life. But the classes are balanced for lvl 110 and pvp talents, so it is no big deal. Have fun with the godmode in these 4 weeks.

[Gaidax]

Well I can assure you that in Legion popping Sac Dark Pact against someone that has no dispel makes them cry bloody tears even before everything else, at least in World PvP. It's like, lol dude good luck breaking through ~1.6 milion HP shield, I could kill people without them even managing to do any damage to my actual health.

[LordAmbrosia]

Indeed. Which is why the class that gives Afflic the most trouble is Rogues, all because of Cloak of Shadows.

Listen, rogue has hardcountered warlock since the dawn of time. But not anymore. I've played both new lock and new rogue, and the lock easily wins. The shield locks have is so big that you can't get them below 100% hp in a cheap shot and kidney shot. Cloak buys you 5 seconds, but you need like 20 to burn them down. And if they get a few dots off on your allies, the shielding they get over the course of the fight makes them the tankiest spec in the game by far (as a cloth caster, when real tank specs exist)

[wholol]

So guys, I see a lot of arguments just for the sake of arguing, what are we really discussing here ? warlocks in pvp are too tanky ? fine they are, so what ? Everyone should deal with it, glad we're done with that.

Next what outlaw rogues ? the best rogue specs on beta are sub followed very closely by assassination ( for pve and pvp ), sub is actually insanely strong at 110 not simply for it's damage but because it cannot be kited ( shadowstrike blink spams).

Locks are tanky but let me tell you other classes' damage is no joke, warlocks are extremely slow and immobile ( total opposite of mage ) due to the fantasy which is why we are this tanky.

Let me tell you a story of 3v3 beta testing, a warlock mage and druid walk into a bar... they suddenly meet a BM hunter , an arms warrior and mistweaver; The war/hunter decide their main is going to be the warlock because they have no idea how tanky locks are in legion. Morale of the story is, they shredded through that lock so fast with all their cds up that the lock had to use absolutely everything at the same time to survive, and barely managed to get away.

Now although the warlock and friends won that game, the damage that the huntard and his friend dolan were doing was insanely strong, given that locks have almost no mobility left outside gateway ( untalented) there rly is no other way to survive without being this tanky, if Mr.huntard and Dolan were a bit brighter and had studied a bit more when they were younger they would have known how to kill the warlock with proper usage of their abilities.

And the sad part is most classes have at least 1 spec that can do scary levels of output , though some need more time to build some resources to achieve that point.

So all I see here are people who have had bitter experiences in a duel or a bg and very few who actually want to debate 3v3 balance ( where blizzard actually stated is the point of reference for pvp balancing).

Now I understand that some people dislike doing arenas, just like some people dislike doing raids, but you'd have to be joking if you thought blizzard doesn't balance pve around raids, they could make things a bit better for dungeons but they can't control every environment separately , similar to how some specs will never see the light of day in challenge modes before the content is on farm. The same logic applies for arenas and pvp.

[Draxtor]

Essence Drain + Curse of Weakness = 75% dmg reduce from your opponent

Yeahh that's not how damage reductions work. They've never worked like that. If I pop two 50% damage reduction cooldowns, Im not magically taking 100% less damage. The largest damage reduction is applied, then the smaller damage reduction is applied to the remainder. So instead of 1 x (.5 + .5) it is 1 x .5 = .5 x .5

[wholol]

Yeahh that's not how damage reductions work. They've never worked like that. If I pop two 50% damage reduction cooldowns, Im not magically taking 100% less damage. The largest damage reduction is applied, then the smaller damage reduction is applied to the remainder. So instead of 1 x (.5 + .5) it is 1 x .5 = .5 x .5

Your info is right but your formula has a minor flaw, It is 1.5 x.5 dear, a 50% increase of a 50% is 75% , unless you are trying to find the value by which 50% is increased by using your formula, which is to say 0.5x0.5 = 0.25 aka 25% increase.

In the case of the essence drain / weakness, it would be 0.5 x 1.25 = 0.625 , a 62.5 % physical damage reduced total.

[Draxtor]

Your info is right but your formula has a minor flaw, It is 1.5 x.5 dear, a 50% increase of a 50% is 75% , unless you are trying to find the value by which 50% is increased by using your formula, which is to say 0.5x0.5 = 0.25 aka 25% increase.

In the case of the essence drain / weakness, it would be 0.5 x 1.25 = 0.625 , a 62.5 % physical damage reduced total.

Where are you getting 1.25? Any damage, regardless of the amount, before reductions is doing 100% of it's damage. So if I hit someone with zero mitigation for 10, I am hitting them for 100% of 10. Thats where the 1 comes from, it is 100%. Your math is correct in the terms of essence drain weakness, I just don't understand the formula. I would put it as 1 x .5 = .5 x .25 = .125. So .5 + .125 = .625, or 62.5% damage reduction.

[wholol]

Where are you getting 1.25? Any damage, regardless of the amount, before reductions is doing 100% of it's damage. So if I hit someone with zero mitigation for 10, I am hitting them for 100% of 10. Thats where the 1 comes from, it is 100%. Your math is correct in the terms of essence drain weakness, I just don't understand the formula. I would put it as 1 x .5 = .5 x .25 = .125. So .5 + .125 = .625, or 62.5% damage reduction.

I think this is a simple miscommunication on my part, what I tried saying in the above statement is that your math is correct, but if we use 0.5 x 0.5 ( which is to say in your example of 2 x 50% damage reduction cooldowns being used ), as they are multiplicative 0.5 x 0.5 would result in a 0.25, 25% damage reduction total ? that's a wrong statement, it should that the total of 2 x 50% DR cooldowns being used is 0.5 x 1.5 = 0.75 , 75% damage reduction total.

Unless you meant to say the formula 0.5 x 0.5 was meant to measure the amount of effective damage reduction the second cooldown would have after being used, in which case your formula would be correct, 25% is the damage reduction value of the 2nd cooldown used.