How long till Worgen Warrior is nerfed?

[HisDudeness]

I win plenty of freeze games without Alex. And if you don't draw good at the start or don't draw your acolytes etc early game, And can still win using your wits. That's a good freeze player. You don't win patron if you draw wrong plain and simple. It's a one trick pony just like this topic.

[Pantalaimon]

Because of the amount of rng in this game you can sit and watch knowing exactly what deck they are playing as well as having all the answers but if you draw badly you just watch them beat your face for 30+ damage...

The chance that your opponent will get even one piece of the combo near the bottom of their deck is greater than the chance of your not pulling a taunt or even outright killing them before the combo happens. People just need to buck up and run taunts more often even if that sometimes affects their control matchups.

[Ravex]

I win plenty of freeze games without Alex. And if you don't draw good at the start or don't draw your acolytes etc early game, And can still win using your wits. That's a good freeze player. You don't win patron if you draw wrong plain and simple. It's a one trick pony just like this topic.

What wits are there?

Waiting long enough to nova doomsayer?

The plays man, the plays.

I actually played freeze mage quite a bit and it's probably my second favorite deck.

I'm not gonna lie and tell myself that it's my uber skill that carried me the entire way. The decks on rails more so then most.

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The chance that your opponent will get even one piece of the combo near the bottom of their deck is greater than the chance of your not pulling a taunt or even outright killing them before the combo happens. People just need to buck up and run taunts more often even if that sometimes affects their control matchups.

Adaptation seems to be a foreign concept to most of the screamers out there.

[soulzek]

I'm not sure how honestly, this is probably one of the most easiest "OTK" decks to stop. And it relies so heavily on cards, more so than most.

It's easy to stop if you are both expecting it AND teching against it. Since Warrior has another top tier deck (c'thun), you don't know which deck you are up against for a while. No, it's not as broken as pre-nerf Leeroy and the likes, but the fact remains that if they have NO BOARD and you are at 25+ health, you make plays expecting to not be fucking dead next turn. It's just stupid.

OTK decks in Hearthstone will always be the #1 problem because the game does not have instants to interrupt your opponent. This is not an issue in classical TCGs because they are tabletop and can support opponent decisions on the other player's turn. When translated into hearthstone, it becomes less about your decisions and more about what cards your opponent (and you) have drawn (by luck) over the game.

[Deleted]

It's easy to stop if you are both expecting it AND teching against it. Since Warrior has another top tier deck (c'thun), you don't know which deck you are up against for a while. No, it's not as broken as pre-nerf Leeroy and the likes, but the fact remains that if they have NO BOARD and you are at 25+ health, you make plays expecting to not be fucking dead next turn. It's just stupid.

OTK decks in Hearthstone will always be the #1 problem because the game does not have instants to interrupt your opponent. This is not an issue in classical TCGs because they are tabletop and can support opponent decisions on the other player's turn. When translated into hearthstone, it becomes less about your decisions and more about what cards your opponent (and you) have drawn (by luck) over the game.

why wouldn't you expect a 25+ damage play if your opponent has 10 mana and is holding 5+ cards, and presumably has been delaying/surviving up to now.

[Kronik85]

It's easy to stop if you are both expecting it AND teching against it. Since Warrior has another top tier deck (c'thun), you don't know which deck you are up against for a while.[/B]

Worgen OTK reveals itself very quickly, if you see any extra cycle like Loot Hoarders or Gnomish Inventor then you know it's Worgen. If you see a Pyro clear you know it's Worgen. It's turn 4 and you haven't seen a Dragon, a C'thun activator or a Fierce Monkey/Bloodhoof Brave? Probably Worgen. You should be able to work out it's Worgen waaaaay before they have any chance to play the combo.

[Mormolyce]

If you're laddering as Priest, OTK warriors will quickly become the least if your concerns.

Thing is, patron warrior was harder to play, yet was nerfed, hard! There wasn't anything wrong with that deck other than it was annoying.

Patron had no real counters, OTK has heaps.

Also, hard to play my ass :P

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It's easy to stop if you are both expecting it AND teching against it. Since Warrior has another top tier deck (c'thun), you don't know which deck you are up against for a while. No, it's not as broken as pre-nerf Leeroy and the likes, but the fact remains that if they have NO BOARD and you are at 25+ health, you make plays expecting to not be fucking dead next turn. It's just stupid.

OTK decks in Hearthstone will always be the #1 problem because the game does not have instants to interrupt your opponent. This is not an issue in classical TCGs because they are tabletop and can support opponent decisions on the other player's turn. When translated into hearthstone, it becomes less about your decisions and more about what cards your opponent (and you) have drawn (by luck) over the game.

OTK decks have always been rare, they are actually too slow so they die to aggro before their combo draws, and control throws out taunts which wreck them.

They briefly become popular when taunts cycle out of the meta. Or if you count Patron mk1, which was straight up broken.

[Wyrt]

Probably never because it's been around forever. It's still OP, but they don't seem concerned with it.

Really, anything that can take someone from 30 to 0 in 1 turn with nothing on the board shouldn't exist. There's no counterplay to something like that. That's why they nerfed Patron and the druid combo.

[Jester Joe]

Probably never because it's been around forever. It's still OP, but they don't seem concerned with it.

Really, anything that can take someone from 30 to 0 in 1 turn with nothing on the board shouldn't exist. There's no counterplay to something like that. That's why they nerfed Patron and the druid combo.

Yet again, they nerfed Warsong not just because of Patron, but because it affected how they would make all 3 or less attack minions going forward.

And they nerfed the druid one because taunt didn't matter at all in regards to stopping it really and it was a two card combo.

This needs multiple cards, and is far easier to stop than those two.

[Wyrt]

Yet again, they nerfed Warsong not just because of Patron, but because it affected how they would make all 3 or less attack minions going forward.

And they nerfed the druid one because taunt didn't matter at all in regards to stopping it really and it was a two card combo.

This needs multiple cards, and is far easier to stop than those two.

Sure, easier to stop if you have a full deck of taunts.

[Simulacrum]

You don't stop OTK with a deck full of taunts. I guess maybe if you play ancestral shaman you can do that, but otherwise they just execute your big ones and FWA/pyro/ghoul/commanding+attack your medium ones.

Luckily, it's a shitty lower-tier deck that beats nobody but rank 25s!

[Deleted]

The real issue is that warrior has a lot of diversity in their high ranked decks currently. Dragon warrior, Cthun, Tempo warrior, worgen OTK, etc. And individual counters can be hard to play with their enormous variance. Freeze mage, for instance is nigh unplayable.

[Jester Joe]

You don't stop OTK with a deck full of taunts. I guess maybe if you play ancestral shaman you can do that, but otherwise they just execute your big ones and FWA/pyro/ghoul/commanding+attack your medium ones.

Luckily, it's a shitty lower-tier deck that beats nobody but rank 25s!

No one's saying it literally only wins at rank 25, but the fact that it can only win if, like seen in the video, you have literally every single card required in your hand.

[Simulacrum]

No one's saying it literally only wins at rank 25, but the fact that it can only win if, like seen in the video, you have literally every single card required in your hand.

Which is really easy since your deck is just draw, removal, and your combo. He had like 4 cards left in his entire deck on turn 9, which isn't unusual. Doesn't matter that you don't have enough removal to remove everything in their deck when the game ends before they've drawn 2/3rds of it.

[Pantalaimon]

You don't stop OTK with a deck full of taunts. I guess maybe if you play ancestral shaman you can do that, but otherwise they just execute your big ones and FWA/pyro/ghoul/commanding+attack your medium ones.

Luckily, it's a shitty lower-tier deck that beats nobody but rank 25s!

This is assuming they have an established board when they're ready to drop the combo. Against N'Zoth pallies & rogues I can guarantee you that that probably wouldn't be the case in the end game. So that only leaves Execute or Shield Slam which will cost the warrior a turn to use the combo unless it got a Thaurassian tick. Just because the warrior can use a removal it doesn't mean they are always going to be in a positive position to clear your board & pop the combo all on the same turn.

[Wyrt]

This is assuming they have an established board when they're ready to drop the combo. Against N'Zoth pallies & rogues I can guarantee you that that probably wouldn't be the case in the end game. So that only leaves Execute or Shield Slam which will cost the warrior a turn to use the combo unless it got a Thaurassian tick. Just because the warrior can use a removal it doesn't mean they are always going to be in a positive position to clear your board & pop the combo all on the same turn.

They don't need board control, they just need no taunts in the way. Which means to counter it you have to play non-stop taunts

[Pantalaimon]

They don't need board control, they just need no taunts in the way. Which means to counter it you have to play non-stop taunts

Aggro would tend to argue otherwise. If the warrior doesn't both control the board with removals & keep up fast & cheap draw engines they will simply lose. They literally have no other win condition. An aggro or tempo deck that just grows their glass cannon minions on the board with no opposition means the warrior has no chance.

You don't need to play non stop taunts, just simply pay attention to when they are going to drop Thaurassion, as well as how many ticks they get (it shouldn't be over 1). Thaurassion is first what makes the combo truly playable, and second it is what makes it playable sooner in the game. If you keep track of how soon the reduced cards will be played you simply have to have a couple of taunts ready for the turn the combo is going to be ready to go, not a taunt every turn.

It also probably helps to win against this matchup if you aren't playing slow ass decks. Of course if you're so insistent on playing a control deck that doesn't win until turn 12+ then you will get rekted. Would you really expect any other result in that scenario?

OP: However, with that said why are so many players also so mad that they lose a game by turn 9-10? People whine that aggro kills them by turn 4-6, whine that C'Thun kills them turn 10+, whine that some inconsistent combo kills them by turn 9-10. Shit, people don't know what they want. Someone enlighten me, what is the 'appropriate' turn and method by which you are 'supposed to' lose to in this game because it seems like everyone complains about everything, saying everything about every deck is unfair. The exception is the deck you are playing of course.

[Gorgodeus]

There will be a lot more players complaining when Kara releases. Just wait until they see OTK warriors running a pair of Arcane Giants.

[Wyrt]

Aggro would tend to argue otherwise. If the warrior doesn't both control the board with removals & keep up fast & cheap draw engines they will simply lose. They literally have no other win condition. An aggro or tempo deck that just grows their glass cannon minions on the board with no opposition means the warrior has no chance.

You don't need to play non stop taunts, just simply pay attention to when they are going to drop Thaurassion, as well as how many ticks they get (it shouldn't be over 1). Thaurassion is first what makes the combo truly playable, and second it is what makes it playable sooner in the game. If you keep track of how soon the reduced cards will be played you simply have to have a couple of taunts ready for the turn the combo is going to be ready to go, not a taunt every turn.

It also probably helps to win against this matchup if you aren't playing slow ass decks. Of course if you're so insistent on playing a control deck that doesn't win until turn 12+ then you will get rekted. Would you really expect any other result in that scenario?

OP: However, with that said why are so many players also so mad that they lose a game by turn 9-10? People whine that aggro kills them by turn 4-6, whine that C'Thun kills them turn 10+, whine that some inconsistent combo kills them by turn 9-10. Shit, people don't know what they want. Someone enlighten me, what is the 'appropriate' turn and method by which you are 'supposed to' lose to in this game because it seems like everyone complains about everything, saying everything about every deck is unfair. The exception is the deck you are playing of course.

Play taunt after Emperor they just play removal and use their combo the next round.

It's not losing on round 10 that's the problem. It's going from 30 health to 0 in 1 round with 0 no counterplay.


And yes, having the current meta be non-stop zoo decks is ridiculous, but at least it's not an unstoppable 1 turn kill.

[Pantalaimon]

Play taunt after Emperor they just play removal and use their combo the next round.

It's not losing on round 10 that's the problem. It's going from 30 health to 0 in 1 round with 0 no counterplay.


And yes, having the current meta be non-stop zoo decks is ridiculous, but at least it's not an unstoppable 1 turn kill.

Fast decks are the counter play... A good chunk of slow control decks automatically lose against some specific combo/otk decks, it is just the nature of the game. All decks are not meant to have a counter play to what all other decks offer. However, even some slow decks do have counter plays though for when the game is drug out. You'll never see a freeze mage lose against this deck solely due to Ice Block, unless the mage gets awful draws with getting the secret/stalling out the game.

Also on the topic of taunts, Defender of Argus is your friend. Creates two taunt minions that can't both by taken out by one removal unless they Brawl.