WotlK Timewalking... WTF is happening?

[Bigbazz]

Early on in the week they increased player ilvl by about 70 and reduced boss and trash melee damage by 30%. Good on you for not wiping in piss easy content.

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Then you had shit raiders back in the day. If I did Scourgelord with a full guild group in LK he died in about 10 seconds.

I didn't say anything about a full guild group, I said a full ICC 25man geared group, it's silly to consider comparing co-ordinated guild groups with pugs. We demolished POS when I went in as DPS too, had a Paladin tank and his dps was massive on both single target and especially AOE, both of us upwards of 15k on the trash, I was at 6k on bosses and he was doing like 4.5-5k... I recall we had a rogue doing ok dps and I can't remember the others.

I mean it just got demolished, not full BIS ICC guild run demolished, but random pug demolished. I did another one with a Blood DK tank and his fucking Blood Boil damage was a sight to behold, he was making my Fury dps look sad on some pulls. When I tanked them I did it as a Prot Warrior, and yes it seemed I was quite immortal thanks to Ignore Pain, damage was also very strong though not quite so strong as what that Paladin or DK did.

[procne]

So you got people who were being dumb/bad and blame blizz? Even before the nerf I haven't had issues. Most of it is because people think they can do TW dungeons like they do normal dungeons, which they can't. You get scaled down to an average, a la chall. dungeons, so pulling entire rooms will get you killed.

The boss was bugged in several ways before the nerf. Maybe you were lucky and it didn't bug for you

[Halyon]

And what tank do you play? Just curious.

I don't tank, but the tanks I've had at random haven't messed up. Some of the druids were complaining a bit that they didn't like being an hp-sponge tank, and the best runs I've had were mostly paladins and after that a few DK's. Haven't seen many warrior tanks, if any...

The boss was bugged in several ways before the nerf. Maybe you were lucky and it didn't bug for you

Possible.

[Ielenia]

Gotta love people who have no idea what hotfixes went out and act like big dogs who think they're the best. What a fucking joke.

Yeah, I still did Pit of Saron post pre-patch and had no trouble keeping the group alive, the tank only dying when he decided to pull everything at the same time.

[OrcsRLame]

I don't tank, but the tanks I've had at random haven't messed up. Some of the druids were complaining a bit that they didn't like being an hp-sponge tank, and the best runs I've had were mostly paladins and after that a few DK's. Haven't seen many warrior tanks, if any...



Possible.

Before the nerf it wasn't about "messing up".

Allow me to explain my experience tanking PoS on Tuesday. I did it with a full guild group, all of us 13/13 mythic on voice chat and at least 3 of us had done PoS about a bazillion times when it was current. As a paladin tank I had around 25k health, and I noticed right from the first trash pull that something wasn't right. Through my active mitigation, an trash mob was meleeing me for 25-30% of my HP. So we took things slow. I did my callouts for Garfrost because I didn't if anyone had forgotten his mechanics. He hurt like a bitch but it wasn't anything unmanageable. On the Ick 'n Krick trash I remembered that the pack of ghouls used to one shot people, so I told everyone to hang back and I preemptively popped Ardent Defender. Didn't proc but I dropped to like 20% health. Cleared out all the trash except for 1 patrolling mob. We engaged the boss and it was obviously bugged, because the fire, all of the fire, was invisible. We lost a dps to a combination of invisible puddles and invisible mines, and then one of my buddies facepulled that mob I left up, because noob. So we ended up wiping. Healer got behind on healing, dps died one at a time and that was all she wrote. So I went and cleared that last mob, (while teasing the guy that pulled it) and we went on to kill Ick 'n Krick fairly easily. Moving out of invisible fire is surprisingly easy when you expect it. We did have one person die to full derp mode so we weren't able to skip the next two packs, but all the AoE trash was surprisingly easy. With a Fury Warrior, Resto Shaman and WW Monk we had a full rotation of AoE stuns so we tore up the rest of the trash with no difficulty.

Then we got to Scourgelord. The first pull was going fairly well. After we pulled the boss he did his RP twice, and at the end of the first time Rimefang immediately filled the entire room with frost patches. So we're just sittin' there in the giant frost patches while Scourgelord repeats himself, laughing our asses off. Eventually the boss aggros and I make the dumb decision to tell the dps to not attack during branded, like how you're supposed to do it. Eventually Scourgelord does the smash and I die. I had my active mitigation up, (because Bastion of Light) and I was even standing in my consecration at the time. I had 25k health, or about 27.5k with the Resto Shaman health buff. I got hit with a 9k overkill, with my 39% DR from SOTR. I was not tanking him during the enrage, I literally got killed by the attack that marks the start of his enrage.

So, second pull. Mercifully we only had to do the RP once this time and heroism was up from when we used it on Ick 'n Krick. I noticed that the dps part of the brand wasn't doing shit, so I told the dps to just go ham even if they get the brand. So we blew everything on the pull. Some 30 or so seconds into the fight I decided to just use the Force, (Since there's no timer for the smash) and I magically popped my Guardian at the right time, so I lived through the smash with a bit under half HP. That's Guardian and SOTR for the record. During the enrage I kited him as best I could, but most of the frost patch wasn't real, and it was hard to tell which parts of the ground would actually slow him. He did hit me with a couple of enraged melees, but they weren't that bad. Awhile later I started getting that feeling like I was about to die, so I used Ardent Defender, which procced about 2 seconds later when he smashes. We killed him maybe 10 seconds after that.

It's not like the boss was insurmountably hard or anything. But I've tanked mythic HFC and I knew the mechanics, and I had to treat it like mythic Tyrant or Xhul. It was obviously hilariously overtuned for the type of content it is. Bugs didn't help either. On the other hand though, Paladins are the weakest tank in terms of EH right now, and we were in a full premade so no 15% HP from Luck of the Draw. Surely a Bear, Warrior or Monk would have no issues dealing with a physical damage spike like that with 15% extra HP. Even so I couldn't help but think that in a relative sense, that guy hit like 4 times harder than heroic Archimonde, but he's only dropping 660 gear compared to heroic Archimonde's 720+. One of the cornerstones of wow gameplay is that the rewards generally match the difficulty, hence my comment earlier in the thread that if he's gonna hit like mythic Xhul he should drop loot like mythic Xhul. That's why I've been defending these nerfs so vigorously. I would be all for them un-nerfing PoS, if they made Scourgelord drop ~720+ gear. Kind of like mythic+ in Legion dropping higher ilvl gear than heroic raids.

[dexx]

They got the fuck nerfed out of them on Wednesday. Boss and most trash melee damage reduced by 30%, player ilvl increased by ~70.

I ran some yesterday. They didnt seem much different from the difficulty they were at the start of this WotLK Timewalking week.

[Svad]

Nope, it was always 1%. Timewalking BiS has always been the 715 version of the ring.

Arh, ok, cheers mate ;-)

[satimy]

I've read about the nerf, I did Pit of Saron + 1more on Friday afternoon though, while I did the other 5 yesterday. For sure yesterday the level of faceroll was supreme, but I don't remember it being particularly hard on Friday either, with Pit of Saron naturally being more difficult than the others traditionally I didn't even notice.

It annoys me, people posting about Timewalking as if they were ever hard, when the fact is they have always been vastly easier than the originals.

Cata heroics werent hard either, players are just generally really bad.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Still so many commenters assuming the problem was players not understanding the Tyrannas fight, without reading or understanding that it was bugged. Doesn't matter now, it's been fixed. It was never about tuning or nerfing or exact numbers, imho. It was about the ice patches not displaying properly and the boss's mechanics having been switched around. If you didn't see it during the 24-48 hours it was bugged, you won't understand what all the fuss was about.

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Cata heroics werent hard either, players are just generally really bad.

They were more challenging than most WoW dungeons, which I enjoyed. Zul Aman and Zul Gurub were my favorites.

[Laerrus]

(It was hotfix this week)

I ran it, before the fix. You couldn't see the green stuff on the ground for the Ick encounter. Had to watch when he fired of the green bolts that caused them and move accordingly. Like I said, not that hard.

[Deleted]

Most of it is because people think they can do TW dungeons like they do normal dungeons, which they can't.

And that's the real problem here. Why are time walking dungeons harder than current heroic dungeons? You could even argue they are harder than current mythic dungeons. What's the fucking point? They reward absolutely nothing that warrants them being such a pain in the ass.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

Did Pit of Saron with my DK like twice yesterday, we had nof wipes at all, breezed through the instance. On Tyrannus, boss was properly slowed by frost traps. It was probably much easier then on mediocre geared group in WoTLK times. You guys just need to stop being bad and you will be allright. Stop blaming Blizzard for your inability to finish dungeon.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I ran it, before the fix. You couldn't see the green stuff on the ground for the Ick encounter. Had to watch when he fired of the green bolts that caused them and move accordingly. Like I said, not that hard.

I didn't have any trouble keeping track of the green stuff. It was predictably placed and easy to avoid. I had more trouble keeping track of where the ice was vs Tyrannas. It can appear all over and I was busy kiting a boss who could one-shot me in ways he never could before. I'd do ok for the first minute or so, memorizing where the blue spell effect had been since the whole floor was white. But eventually I'd get turned around and hit some, and my margin for error was so small.

I still think we would have got him with a dedicated group, despite the bug. But players started bailing and at some point it was easier to just queue for another. I was trying to do 5 TW x 5 alts = 25 dungeons, so I wanted to keep moving. Drew PoS again after the fix and it was np.

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Did Pit of Saron with my DK like twice yesterday, we had nof wipes at all, breezed through the instance. On Tyrannus, boss was properly slowed by frost traps. It was probably much easier then on mediocre geared group in WoTLK times. You guys just need to stop being bad and you will be allright. Stop blaming Blizzard for your inability to finish dungeon.

Yet another player commenting without reading. Of course you had no problem with it yesterday. It was fixed. The problem was a bug earlier in the week.

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And that's the real problem here. Why are time walking dungeons harder than current heroic dungeons? You could even argue they are harder than current mythic dungeons. What's the fucking point? They reward absolutely nothing that warrants them being such a pain in the ass.

They're only challenging at all because they scale your gear. How they compare to heroics depends on which point in an expansion cycle you are comparing them too. That point when heroics first become available? Or toward the end, when everyone outgears them enough to solo them? TWs are set somewhere in the middle.

[Grimbold of Skullcrusher]

I didn't have any trouble keeping track of the green stuff. It was predictably placed and easy to avoid. I had more trouble keeping track of where the ice was vs Tyrannas. It can appear all over and I was busy kiting a boss who could one-shot me in ways he never could before. I'd do ok for the first minute or so, memorizing where the blue spell effect had been since the whole floor was white. But eventually I'd get turned around and hit some, and my margin for error was so small.

I still think we would have got him with a dedicated group, despite the bug. But players started bailing and at some point it was easier to just queue for another. I was trying to do 5 TW x 5 alts = 25 dungeons, so I wanted to keep moving. Drew PoS again after the fix and it was np.

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Yet another player commenting without reading. Of course you had no problem with it yesterday. It was fixed. The problem was a bug earlier in the week.

I apologize for my stupid reply then :/

Btw they upped itemlevel in all timewalking dungeons? I enjoyed them being at least bit hard and yesterday all seemed really easy.

[Deleted]

i just want to repeat: i tanked this instance like 10 times. i farmed 2,5 k coins this week. and very seldom my char drops below 70 % hp, exept some strong hitting abilities from trash, which are not that hard to memorize.

i NEVER got onehit by anything, yes some things are hitting hard, and u HAVE to use or active migiation abilities and cds to some extent. Thats what is called tanking.

Its a learn to play /learn to tank issue, and the problem is not the difficulty of the dungeons, but the downfall of the playerbase overall skill due to to easy welfare dungeons in the last 3 expansions.

This.

What normally happens:
I have to explain a lot of bosses in Cata dungeons and in the pit. Or I have to explain what silence/stun/fear means.
The tank leaves all the aggro to the heal(me) and then flames my mother, because I can´t tank 2 groups of enemies for him.
Tank tries to pull the whole dungeon because "yolo".

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I apologize for my stupid reply then :/

Btw they upped itemlevel in all timewalking dungeons? I enjoyed them being at least bit hard and yesterday all seemed really easy.

I agree. Wish they had only fixed the bug not nerfed anything else. The Tyrannas fight was the only one I found problematic even before the fix, and that's only because the mechanics weren't working the way they always had in the past. They could have fixed that and left everything else the same and I would have been quite happy.

[Pull My Finger]

You gotta remember when this boss and its mechanics were put into the game, tanks had way more passive mitigation, avoidance, and cooldowns available. Most of those 3 things have been removed though.

Except it's not true.

[Deleted]

Except it's not true.

tanks had way more passive avoidance, not cds though. also we had way higher itemlevel back then. anyways, bug was fixed, tw nerfed back to yolo.

[Halyon]

And that's the real problem here. Why are time walking dungeons harder than current heroic dungeons? You could even argue they are harder than current mythic dungeons. What's the fucking point? They reward absolutely nothing that warrants them being such a pain in the ass.

Because we get scaled down in gear and stats, so someone who relies on gear to 'win' won't fare well... I'm fine with that.

[OrcsRLame]

Except it's not true.

It is true actually. Part of being a geared tank for ICC 25 heroic was being at the armor cap, 75% reduction. Obviously PoS was not tuned for 25 H ICC gear, but you get the idea I'm sure. You'd probably have in the ballpark of 60-65% DR from armor alone. Not to mention the fact that stam stacking was the meta at the time so even a modest geared tank would have like 35k for the ICC 5 mans. Active mitigation is nice, but it doesn't make up for ~30% DR from armor and 10k more HP.