Protection legion Discussion

[Drkreven]

I am curious myself if the discussions I have seen of Warrior tanks having zero threat issues compared to other tanks is based on actual live numbers such as the 7.0.3 patch, or if these statements are based off numbers coming off of beta testing. I can say for one that DK threat on beta, and there overall damage seems very much higher then that of the Protection Warrior, and I do not base this off of live play. I base this solely off of beta testing. I did a Mythic+ 7 today with a DK tank, and found there overall damage, and threat generation in the Mythic+7 with Skittish was much higher then that of my threat gen on my Warrior. The DK did slightly out gear me, but roughly 9 item levels or so, but it did not seem so much a out gearing issue that they were able to out damage me, or out threat me as easy as they seemed to be able to do. I am trying to get clarification on this topic of discussion because I feel the discussion is slightly derailed by numbers comparing live play to that of beta play. I can say the amount of damage DK's are managing on Beta far exceeds that of Protection Warriors in AoE or single target currently. I can see with proper rage pooling, and stacked charges of focused rage we could possibly get close to there damage, but when on single target there top damage is Blood Boil, and its makes up the largest percentage of there damage done to the target or targets... I see a slight issue when they can over threat with a AoE affect someone who is using pure single target abilities such as one would on bosses. If any have any beta info to share to immediately discredit my statements feel free to post on here, and we can discuss it more in depth as Warrior threat and damage on beta seems considerably below that of other tanks.

[PinDrop]

Ayy lmao, it did take up a global cooldown earlier tho didn't it?

It doesn't know though

Nah, it was off the GCD. Not sure about now. The problem was though, the wand is considered a channeled spell. So he basically had 0 dodge/parry/block since it was always going.

[DonChalk]

So, I was worried about Prot, but it was somewhat mis-placed.

2 Questions. Does Inspiring Presence affect you? or just your allies? & Is ignore Pain as OP in normal content as it is in TBC Timeless?

Yes to both questions. Ignore Pain is ridiculously strong, I was doing LFR testing on the Beta and one of the bosses I forget the name of (I think star augur) does a stacking DoT. Other tank didn't didn't realize they were supposed to taunt and I ended up stacking it up to 99 stacks, 1.3 Million every 2 seconds, and lived. Granted, yeah healers were on me pretty heavy but I still ended up at like 144K HPS from the absorb.

[Deleted]

Nah, it was off the GCD. Not sure about now. The problem was though, the wand is considered a channeled spell. So he basically had 0 dodge/parry/block since it was always going.

Lmao, that's odd though. Must've probably been changed then at some point because I actually do use it in my Intercept and it doesn't compromise my block at all.

[Hostile]

Right now I'm doing like 35k dps on mythic Archi with Pally co-tank and don't have any threat issues. The reason I'm doing only 35k dps is because I didn't take any burst talents, like Avatar/Booming Voice/Ravager. I'm currently playing with Vengeance weaving build, Vengeance+Ultimatum, and I think that's why I'm having no problems with aggro. Constantly weaving in Focused Rage keeps my threat levels even. Sometimes my Pally co-tank will take like 101-103% on threat list (110% is when you lose aggro), but then it just evens out after a couple of FR's.

The downside is 35k dps (like 20k lower than the guy who had threat problems with Burst build), the upside is like ~10-11mil+ absorbed by Ignore Pain, instead of his ~5mil. And even without Inspiring Presence my HPS numbers are still high, ~40k. My Pally co-tank is really squishy on tank swaps, so using an Intercept macro with Safeguard x2 helps out a bunch.

[Cylunaria]

Right now I'm doing like 35k dps on mythic Archi with Pally co-tank and don't have any threat issues. The reason I'm doing only 35k dps is because I didn't take any burst talents, like Avatar/Booming Voice/Ravager. I'm currently playing with Vengeance weaving build, Vengeance+Ultimatum, and I think that's why I'm having no problems with aggro. Constantly weaving in Focused Rage keeps my threat levels even. Sometimes my Pally co-tank will take like 101-103% on threat list (110% is when you lose aggro), but then it just evens out after a couple of FR's.

The downside is 35k dps (like 20k lower than the guy who had threat problems with Burst build), the upside is like ~10-11mil+ absorbed by Ignore Pain, instead of his ~5mil. And even without Inspiring Presence my HPS numbers are still high, ~40k. My Pally co-tank is really squishy on tank swaps, so using an Intercept macro with Safeguard x2 helps out a bunch.

Those talent swaps do not have that big an impact on your dps. I am running the same setup you are, defensive trinkets and all, and am still over 50k both weeks for archie since the pre-patch. The threat thing is just silly and I think people are just imagining things on live servers because it's different. At 110 maybe it changes, but on live right now there aren't any issues.

[Zka]

I tried to google up something but failed.
I think there is some bug with Ultimatum (or maybe Focused Rage). Free FRs procced by Ultimatum DO NOT STACK. (or they reduce stack to 1, not tested)
If I use FR without Ultimatum procs, it stacks. With Ultimatum it doesn't. Looks like a bug to me.

FYI I also have Vengeance specced and I use a FR+IP macro when I get Ultimatum procs.

update: I realized SS consumes FR charges. The tooltips aren't stating this clearly at all. So there's no bug, just sloppy wording.

[flzk]

FYI I also have Vengeance specced and I use a FR+IP macro when I get Ultimatum procs.

could you show us this macro? everything that makes my life more easy is welcome

[Deleted]

could you show us this macro? everything that makes my life more easy is welcome

Could it be something like this?

#showtooltip <FR or IP here> (FR probably is better)
/use Focused Rage
/use Ignore Pain

Although i find using a macro for this to be more confusing than anything to be honest.

[Zka]

Could it be something like this?

#showtooltip <FR or IP here> (FR probably is better)
/use Focused Rage
/use Ignore Pain

Although i find using a macro for this to be more confusing than anything to be honest.

Yes that's my macro with FR tooltip. Not sure why it would be confusing. I have a hotkey for IP and another hotkey for FR+IP. The latter is only used when I have an Ultimatum proc. Quite straightforward. I don't have FR bound separately, that doesn't seem to make sense unless I want to micromanage my skills in order to improve DPS. I don't need that at the moment.

So the question remains. Did any of you notice the non-stacking FR bug I mentioned? Did I overlook something maybe?

[Hostile]

Why would people use rotational macros like these? It's just more confusing that way and prone to mistakes.
It's so easy to FR and IP yourself, especially if you're using WA to keep track of what to press next.
Sometimes you don't need to IP instantly, sometimes it's better to wait a little to avoid capping IP for example, especially if you're currently off-tanking and just want to keep IP buff alive. Or in Legion it's going to be better to probably pool more rage for meatier Dragon Scales IP, etc.

[Deleted]

Exactly, with IP and FR bound separately you can decide to take the proc of FR but don't use IP yet waiting for a particularly big hit coming, and in the mean time pooling rage to then maybe spam some more IP just in case things go south.

A few pages back someone posted a WA that keeps track of what you should use next, and alerts you when you have a max rage IP avaiable. With just that you can almost effortlessly manage your rotation.

I found that being able to delay IPs at your liking is very helpful, as of now i just open with battlecry SS FR IP then FR and then before popping IP again if the previous one still stands i use SB to make more out of the current IP.

Moreover you say you don't even have FR bound separately, you mean that you only use FR on Ultimatum procs? If that's the case i'd suggest you revise a little your rotation while using vengeance

didn't notice the bug yet, have to check

[Quende]

cant wait till legion OMG OMG WARIOR OP!

[Avallon]

I've been watching a lot of videos and reading the bnet forums and reddit - a common complaint seems to be that rage generation is a major issue. For those experienced raiders/mythic dungeon players currently in the beta:

1. Is it true that you feel that protection warriors have an issue with rage generation?

2. Did you experience rage generation issues as you leveled (in prot spec)?

[Deleted]

So the question remains. Did any of you notice the non-stacking FR bug I mentioned? Did I overlook something maybe?

I think you overlooked the fact that for Ultimatum to proc you have to use Shield Slam, and any stack you previously had would be consumed by the Shield Slam that proc'd ultimatum.
If you use the FR from ultimatum and then another FR it just stacks as intended.

[Deleted]

Well while leveling rage can be slow - but during dungeons/raids I felt the rage regenration was fine.

If I'm completely honest, I'm pretty excited to play protection warrior, and if you can do dungeons with a unholy DK even better!

[Agromat]

A few pages back someone posted a WA that keeps track of what you should use next, and alerts you when you have a max rage IP avaiable. With just that you can almost effortlessly manage your rotation.

Here's the link to the Vengeance tracking WA I wrote, again:

http://pastebin.com/F1AZfr9p

[Zka]

I think you overlooked the fact that for Ultimatum to proc you have to use Shield Slam, and any stack you previously had would be consumed by the Shield Slam that proc'd ultimatum.
If you use the FR from ultimatum and then another FR it just stacks as intended.

Meanwhile I edited my original post because I realized SS consumes FR stacks by default.
The tooltip wording is very poor imho. "Focus your rage on your next Shield Slam" Looks like some RP text, but I guess this is supposed to tell you that the stacks will be consumed.

[Avallon]

Well while leveling rage can be slow - but during dungeons/raids I felt the rage regenration was fine.

If I'm completely honest, I'm pretty excited to play protection warrior, and if you can do dungeons with a unholy DK even better!

Thanks for the feedback - I'm excited for prot as well. I haven't looked into unholy DK's at all - is there some sort of synergy between prot warriors and unholy DKs?

[Deleted]

Thanks for the feedback - I'm excited for prot as well. I haven't looked into unholy DK's at all - is there some sort of synergy between prot warriors and unholy DKs?

Well it's mainly because of the grip (you got 2 when unholy). I've tanked all the dungeons except arcway and court of stars and for most thrash pulls only 1-2 guy was ranged/uninteruptable, so a DK really brings some quality of life for those packs, because they can be a bit anoying, but nothing dangerous etc.

Because it's only 1-2 mobs MAX - Gorefiend's Grasp is nice, but no way near as sought after like in WoD. We also have shockwave which is really valuable (a few uninteruptable adds).