Arms Legion Discussion

[Yassy]

What if the enemy was a ranged, caster, non-CCable, or fast movement?

Second wind rewards you for dodging mechanics, apparently it isn't a garbage talent after all.

Then you change talents to Defensive Stance because you are given that ability to do so mechanically.

None of those things you mention contradict what Ryan said, which is that Second Wind allows you to solo things that you otherwise would not be able to. The talent doesn't have to be a be all end all healing talent that works all the time. It needs to work well for the scenarios and gameplay its designed for, which it does.

[Katie45]

Eh, that's a nice sounding spin, but it has little use in modern raiding.

Most raid encounters come with unavoidable damage these days, and that damage comes in at least 5s intervals, already sidelining the talent. For the few that don't, if you're dodging whatever mechanics they have, you aren't taking damage from them anyway, so there's nothing for Second Wind to heal. On top of that, most healing in raids is AoE, so whatever periodic damage you're are taking is being taken by other members of the raid as well, and going to be healed up as a group.

I wouldn't say it's completely useless, but it's practical parameters in PvE are very narrow. To be effective, you have to be taking substantial amounts of damage, no more than every 6-10s, and not being healed externally; a combination which is very rare.

The only places it really shines are intermittent/well-kited PvP, or heavy AoE solo content.

you have to be playing against paste eaters to even think its good in pvp

[Beefkow]

Then you change talents to Defensive Stance because you are given that ability to do so mechanically.

None of those things you mention contradict what Ryan said, which is that Second Wind allows you to solo things that you otherwise would not be able to. The talent doesn't have to be a be all end all healing talent that works all the time. It needs to work well for the scenarios and gameplay its designed for, which it does.

Yeah, then you would lose 10% damage.

Thats what talents are for, to suit whats best for you in each different scenario, if there is a talent that's either SOLID or TERRIBLE for all situations, it needs to be adjusted.

On a side note: I hate how you have to go to a rested area to change talents, but hey, we get tomes and inscriptions are praised.

you have to be playing against paste eaters to even think its good in pvp

It's somewhat viable in pvp if you manage to run away from a fight or play the pillar game in arena. Otherwise the other 2 talents trump 2nd wind by a far mile.

[Archimtiros]

you have to be playing against paste eaters to even think its good in pvp

*sigh* Did you even bother to read what was written, or just jump to a conclusion after seeing the letters PvP put together without a space in between?

I said it can shine in intermittent or well-kited PvP, not that it was good in PvP period.

[Artunias]

*sigh* Did you even bother to read what was written, or just jump to a conclusion after seeing the letters PvP put together without a space in between?

I said it can shine in intermittent or well-kited PvP, not that it was good in PvP period.

Then a random warlock puts a 60 dot on you and /laughs

[Archimtiros]

Then a random warlock puts a 60 dot on you and /laughs

Which is no different than what can happen in PvE. Again, play to its strengths: intermittent or well-kited. Obviously you're not going to be trying to kite DoT classes, and intermittent means just that.

Anyone who thinks PvP isn't a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors to begin with is kidding themselves.

[Katie45]

Which is no different than what can happen in PvE. Again, play to its strengths: intermittent or well-kited. Obviously you're not going to be trying to kite DoT classes, and intermittent means just that.

Anyone who thinks PvP isn't a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors to begin with is kidding themselves.

of course but every single class has something to hit you to get 2nd wind from not work, its bad for pvp, hands down, unless you face a really bad team.

[Rorke]

Can you elaborate? Second Wind only works after 5 seconds of no damage. That's 0 in combat healing unless you're fighting something so underleveled it just keeps missing you, at which case that hardly falls under "you never would be able to without it".

I can imagine there are a couple instances of bosses with 5+ second damage stops, but nothing of note. Am I missing something here?

I just hamstring the elite mob and dead zone it where I stand just far enough where I can still whirlwind it but it can't hit me. I'm also specced Shockwave most of the time so if I pull too many things and I'm about to die, I either try to global one enemy to get a quick victory rush or if I think I'm going to die, I use Shockwave and run away and attack again once I have around 70% health. It also helps that on beta I'm playing a Male Worgen so Darkflight actually comes in handy if you need to run away.

You never want to run too far because you run the risk of resetting the mob. So usually what happens is that hamstring will eventually fall off the mob and it'll catch up to you. If you still need more health, then this is a good time to use Shockwave/Intimidating Shout/Stormbolt to stop it from reaching you. Again, only if you need more health you do this but usually I never get in this situation because I usually start running once I reach 50% health and I know I won't kill the mob. If you wait too long, then you have to spend more defensive resources to make sure the enemy doesn't hit you.

Mobs that use spells aren't hard either assuming you can LoS and interrupt them. If you can LoS, then its better to just let them cast where they waste time casting and then waste more time trying to run at you to cast. If you can't LoS you have two options. You either just Heroic Leap at max range so the mob has to stop casting and chase you or you just interrupt the spell, reapply hamstring and run and when it starts casting again, you stop it with either shockwave/intimidating shout/Stormbolt. I've solo'd a couple of the Wardens quests doing this.

Obviously World bosses and Raid/Dungeon monsters aren't soloable. Anything that can't be interrupted CC'd cannot be solo'd unless you can overwhelm it with ridiculous single target damage while using Heroic Leap as your only way to heal with Second Wind.

You can also just ignore all of this and spec Prot against elite monsters and just faceroll where you take no damage and just slowly kill them.

[Archimtiros]

of course but every single class has something to hit you to get 2nd wind from not work, its bad for pvp, hands down, unless you face a really bad team.

The fact that you even bring up teams shows that you're only focused on arena, which I purposefully did not specify (see: intermittent combat, which arenas certainly are not), so again, thanks for reading the entire post.

[Syegfryed]

the only way i took advantage from Second wind PVP was on Random Bgs, when the enemy team have almost no dots (and that is pretty hard since we have many rogues and warlocsk) you run from a fight heal, then the fight is already over, or after a fight you heal, to fight again faster when the team have no healers, but yeah meeh

people even mock me for pick then lol, the talent is already hated

[Calamari]

Second Wind feels like a gimmick, having a heal that forces a warrior of all classes to start kiting to maybe work is just silly. This feels like a talent that would be far more at home in Marksman talent tree than the Arms tree.

I'm sure it has its uses, but I would trade it in a heart beat for something more reliable.

[Archimtiros]

Second Wind feels like a gimmick, having a heal that forces a warrior of all classes to start kiting to maybe work is just silly. This feels like a talent that would be far more at home in Marksman talent tree than the Arms tree.

I'm sure it has its uses, but I would trade it in a heart beat for something more reliable.

Which is exactly why it's so underused.

[Sorshen]

Second Wind feels like a gimmick, having a heal that forces a warrior of all classes to start kiting to maybe work is just silly. This feels like a talent that would be far more at home in Marksman talent tree than the Arms tree.

I'm sure it has its uses, but I would trade it in a heart beat for something more reliable.

Can we just have Blood Craze back now... FeelsBadMan

[Rorke]

Haven't been playing Arms the last few days. Been trying out classes I never played on live and its fun to play shit for free without paying blizzard or suffering through boring leveling content.

I've been playing Frost Mage and Destruction Warlock and I have to say, Warlocks are so fucking boring. Now I know why nobody plays Warlock. It's like an easier version of a Mage, but you don't have all of the fun shit of a Mage. You just stand there and let your pet aggro everything while you just spam spells like a turret. No mobility, just stand there and cast.

Lame.

[mazuno]

2nd wind is good in random BGs when you dont have a healer sticking to your ass 24/7
with the elite soloing and outdoor leveling it might very well be its only uses

[Svart Kors]

Not sure if this question has been addressed previously, or if I'm asking because I think I read something about it before.

Is there any type of cooldown or mechanics conflict as to why 2 Arms Warriors shouldn't be in the same progression raid team, (speaking on a guild progression term, not pugs/lfr)? I wasn't sure if I'd read that if one uses some sort of ability that the other wouldn't be able to use the same one....sorry vague question, just trying to cover all the bases. Thanks!

[Artunias]

Not sure if this question has been addressed previously, or if I'm asking because I think I read something about it before.

Is there any type of cooldown or mechanics conflict as to why 2 Arms Warriors shouldn't be in the same progression raid team, (speaking on a guild progression term, not pugs/lfr)? I wasn't sure if I'd read that if one uses some sort of ability that the other wouldn't be able to use the same one....sorry vague question, just trying to cover all the bases. Thanks!

This was an issue with Colossus Smash for the entire Alpha. It is fixed now, so no need to worry.

[Deleted]

Tried to search in the thread for the FR 120-150 APM build but couldn't find anything. Could someone point me to the correct post?

[Warriorsarri]

http://www.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#EttF would be that spec.

[Deleted]

http://www.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#EttF would be that spec.

Is this for prepatch as well or just Legion? If it is the spec for prepatch, what trinket goes with it? Class trinket + Drinking Horn?