Are all tanks bad now?

[Bapestar]

The 2 options were:
1) Press the max threat ability on cd to be a 'good mt'
2) Don't press the correct max threat ability on cd, be a bad tank

That is BC tanking

And yet it is regarded as the golden era. And rightfully so.

[Doomchicken]

When It comes to brewmasters I definitely find them harder. Luckily for me though I've always enjoyed a good challenge, so this I'm sure will prove to be one come legion.

[Simulacrum]

Tanks aren't as weak or boring as they were early in the beta.

They definitely are weaker and less fun than they were before, though, in pretty much every aspect of the game, be it 5 mans, raids, pvp...

Gotta keep that skillcap low to make the oh-so-stressful task more accessible, I guess. As if the "difficulty" of the gameplay was what kept people away.

Uhm yeah, I have seen countless tank reviews, people crying here and there how tanking is lame, boring, not fun anymore...

'cuz it isn't

Yeah, those people dont care about atrocities their beloved previous game design did to healers (mostly).

it didn't do shit to healers

Surely it was fun for tanks to tank anything with billions of cooldowns and self healing, sure it was fun for many damage dealers to survive anything, outrun anything...everything was fine and dandy because guess what, lets kick this one useless healer, f*ck him, right? Thats WoD reality, cant kill a boss? Kick a healer.

that's how it has always been

has nothing to do with the tanks

Tanking is in the right spot at the moment, its just not suited for dinosaurs of old golden ages and special snowflakes.

dinosaurs? wtf are you talking about? the changes are going back to the old system of the "dinosaurs", with tanks having to rely completely on healers for their survival again

There are still some cooldowns you can use, healers have to actually heal you and when your group doesnt use smart CC on trash you may have some problems.

yeah, if your class is lucky enough to have cooldowns

and nobody uses cc these days either, and they never will. ever since they threw away the old tanking model of the dinosaurs, wow tanking has always been about as much aoe damage as possible, with all the incentives structured around making that always the correct way to do things, as is happening again in legion with timed mythic+ dungeons

Self healing is still solid, healing about 20-30%hp yourself every 15 sec or so seems weak? Really?

yes

Its mindblowing how even some self-proclaimed wow raiding experts fail to see the bigger picture

it's the other way around

If you make tanks strong you kick out healers

no

sometimes dps

you kick dps to replace them with more tanks in your raids? ok bro

If you overtune healers you kick out healers and tanks

if you undertune content you do that, yes

but that's not what we're talking about

you're not gonna bring less healers because your tank needs less healing

you're gonna bring less healers because nobody needs healing

has nothing to do with the tanks, unless you bring healers just to heal the tanks. which hasn't been a thing since like wotlk, which is good because that was the worst healing model the game has ever seen. if my guild hadn't picked me to get the first val'anyr i wouldn't have stuck with it, i'll tell 'ya that much

if you overtune dps you kick out tanks and healers.

again

Its all connected, its fine now, everybody has to do something.

cool platitudes

[Murderdoll]

It really depends what you call bad.

Will they be numerically fine? Sure. Youve got like one or two CDs to worry about and from there you just need to keep up your Bone Sheild etc and job done, the healers do the rest.

The gameplay has been seriously diminished and your job is to stand there and keep up a defensive buff and hold threat.

Theyre fucking boring.

The skill ceiling on all of them has been absolutely demolished. There is very little room to improve, there is very little to strive for. The difference between a bad tank and a good tank is now "Taunted at the correct time" and "moved out of bad".

[Deleted]

It really depends what you call bad.

Will they be numerically fine? Sure. Youve got like one or two CDs to worry about and from there you just need to keep up your Bone Sheild etc and job done, the healers do the rest.

The gameplay has been seriously diminished and your job is to stand there and keep up a defensive buff and hold threat.

Theyre fucking boring.

The skill ceiling on all of them has been absolutely demolished. There is very little room to improve, there is very little to strive for. The difference between a bad tank and a good tank is now "Taunted at the correct time" and "moved out of bad".

In case of DK tanks, I am fairly certain the community will soon come up with the some "minigame" to play while tanking - like Breath of Syndragosa in WoD.

As for the other tanks... not sure how common are such things to be honest.

[Deleted]

i played beta much and with the exception of druid I healed and played every tank and I gotta say, they are a bit more dependant on healers (which is good, very good) but are still too selfsufficient imo. blood dks in my guild still pulling off 70k hps on archimonde mythic, barely in need of anything. prot warriors hp bars almost not moving at all with good ignore pain and shield block usage. Monk tanks sustaining very well at ~70 %.

The thing is, you need to adapt, as always. Tanks arent bad at all. Theyre not the same demigods as they were before, but theyre certainly not bad. Also: if everyones the same, how can they be bad? xD They shouldnt be top dps and healing while tanking....

Learn to adapt

[Deleted]

seems enough challange to the avarage wow player then which they cant overcome

The argument was about "threat as exciting gameplay mechanic" in BC. There was no gameplay in it for tanks. For everyone else, yeah maybe, but for tanks it was binary

[Deleted]

Theyre fucking boring.

The skill ceiling on all of them has been absolutely demolished. There is very little room to improve, there is very little to strive for. The difference between a bad tank and a good tank is now "Taunted at the correct time" and "moved out of bad".

I'd really say the exact opposite 0O. I main heal since 6 years straight now, and never have I noticed difference in tankskill more than before. Good tanks need nothing (atm on live before legion launch), bad tanks need spam healing, be it in mythic dungeons, timewalker, mythic raiding. The problem is people just dont recognize what to do better, so they think its "normal" to take X damage on encounter Y. They then often consult with people of similar skill who had the same experience, but are also not as good aswell.

Its like having 3 bad fire mages in a group all doing the same dps below a say windwalker monk on single target burst, so they all agree fire mage is bad at bursting. Tanks think theyre doing fine when holding aggro and be "healable" while they could do MUCH better.

[Deleted]

So, I'm stuck in limbo because my comp hit its WoW playing EOL (Mac Pro 1,1 that for RL reasons I may not be able to upgrade to latest OS).

That's given me time to reflect as to what I'd like to play once I get my sitch worked out. I've decided I wanted to get back into tanking as I enjoy that role the most.

I've played and enjoy the Pally which I've tanked on since BC, the DK and the BrM. I'm not so interested in continuing on the BrM, but I am interested in trying the Guardian as I enjoyed Feral and I have friends who've been trying to convince me to try Guardian for awhile...

So, I come here to read the various forums and... it seems every tank isn't just off...but BADLY broken.

Troxism articulates in his lengthy google doc how the Blood DK has serious issues.

Several long time Prot Pallies have articulated how the spec is in a terrible place and the more strident the Prot Pally, it seems, the more they hate the changes and desire to abandon the class.

Guardian druids seem to be in a reasonable place except for threat which seems crazy. Even those who've played at 110 have said that threat is a problem, especially AoE threat. Considering DPS haven't had to watch threat since BC really, I can't imagine anyone, but the tank being blamed for threat issues...

I've been reading about issues with Brewmasters and Warriors as well, specifically with the big nerf to Brewmaster's mitigation (it's possible I misread that or that the complaints are misplaced).

I'm leaning toward sticking with my DK and alting my druid after maybe trying out the Vengeance DH, but does anyone have any input on the state of tanks?

Is the state of tanks overblown or have tanks which were all pretty much in a really good spot all taken a pretty solid hit?

And if so, as someone coming back to tanking, any suggestions?

Tanks arent bad. You just need a healer. Like you are supposed to.

[Murderdoll]

In case of DK tanks, I am fairly certain the community will soon come up with the some "minigame" to play while tanking - like Breath of Syndragosa in WoD.

As for the other tanks... not sure how common are such things to be honest.

Theres no mini game though. Bonestorm has no real worth its just pool rp and dump. Soul Gorge is just disgusting mechanically. Like, unless the mini game is "lets see how long we can survive without Bone Sheild and heartstrike everything" I dunno what could be created here. The spec is basic as shit and once we move into Legion, Bone Sheild/Marrowrend will need to be used a lot more than it is currently in HFC.

[Deleted]

And yet it is regarded as the golden era. And rightfully so.

It was fucking boring.
Not saying the new system is any better. It's hard to make meaningful tanking tasks on top of everything else, so it tends to boil down to "swap at three kk?"

[Murderdoll]

I'd really say the exact opposite 0O. I main heal since 6 years straight now, and never have I noticed difference in tankskill more than before. Good tanks need nothing (atm on live before legion launch), bad tanks need spam healing, be it in mythic dungeons, timewalker, mythic raiding. The problem is people just dont recognize what to do better, so they think its "normal" to take X damage on encounter Y. They then often consult with people of similar skill who had the same experience, but are also not as good aswell.

Its like having 3 bad fire mages in a group all doing the same dps below a say windwalker monk on single target burst, so they all agree fire mage is bad at bursting. Tanks think theyre doing fine when holding aggro and be "healable" while they could do MUCH better.

The difference will be there and will be there for a while. The tanking and healing meta has changed immensely.

Even on beta, tanks need to get out of the mindset that theyve been in for the last 18 months. Im a 13/13M Tank and even I have fallen into that trap. On my BDK I sit there and just want to Heart Strike. Whereas we need to be focusing more on Shuffle/Marrowrend/Bone Shield.

Right now its about maximising Bone Sheild and maximising Vamp Blood via Death Strike and theres not much else. Theres very few things to improve on. Its just those things you door poorly really make a huge difference.

[deffusse]

There are now tanks in 7+, every tank is now dps so called tank

[insomniac1969]

No tank is bad, same cannot be said about players.

[Lady Dragonheart]

It's not that bad, at least for Prot Warrior and Blood DK. Especially with Blood DK, for me it's been significantly easier to tank since the patch.

[shonist]

I played all specs in beta. ALL.

PLayed with a prot paladin with that awful pvp set with 0 haste and it was meh.

Then i lvled in live 1-88 (this past week) and i had a blast. Ive done 141 dungeons so far and some Bgs in the way.
Yet my avenger shield its only interrupt and dps, with the artifact it would be active mitigation (20% of damage done by it).
light of the protector will become a HoT for 15 secs after using it.

and thats the point to need healers, thats te fun.
If you want to succes, you will have to play better, the better you play, the less healer's mana you waste.
So now its not just doing whatever with 2000 bonus armor and no taking damage.

For me, Im rolling prot pally for legion.

[Dezminion]

It's not that bad, at least for Prot Warrior and Blood DK. Especially with Blood DK, for me it's been significantly easier to tank since the patch.

That's just what many of us don't want

It to be too easy

[MasterHamster]

Abandoned my since-WotLK paladin due to Prot/Ret changes, but mostly Prot. Feels so incredibly boring without Holy Power and almost zero synergy. Hit anything that isn't on cooldown, and frankly I have NEVER seen such boring talents. Not a single paladin talent made me go "Oooh!". Instead, like 4 made me feel annoyed.
First tier... do I want to lose my bouncy Avenger's Shield, use a clunky +3 charge on SotR, or a meh 15% chance to proc Grand Crusader on Judgment. Whoopdidoo.
And those 100 talents. Good god.
Dull passive cd reduction, stat boost that uses SotR charges, or a passive that'll give me 3% damage reduction on bosses.

So I switched to Warrior. Partially because I think the new Fury is the most fun I've ever had on a melee in WoW. And I want focus on BLOCKING, fighting like a tank should with a shield in hand, not two-handers, bear asses, kegs or warglaives. Doesn't really matter how good Prot paladins will be when it comes to mitigation, it's f'ing boring to play. Which sucks because I absolutely adored MoP/WoD prot pala style of play. I'm more than fine with a design shift towards being more reliant on healers again, but not this garbage.

[Lord Havik]

Hate it.

Being reliant more on healers than on my own ability as a tank has put a serious damper on my fun. It's almost on-par with BC in terms of being a terribly boring, skill-neutral slog.

[shonist]

Abandoned my since-WotLK paladin due to Prot/Ret changes, but mostly Prot. Feels so incredibly boring without Holy Power and almost zero synergy. Hit anything that isn't on cooldown, and frankly I have NEVER seen such boring talents. Not a single paladin talent made me go "Oooh!". Instead, like 4 made me feel annoyed.
First tier... do I want to lose my bouncy Avenger's Shield, use a clunky +3 charge on SotR, or a meh 15% chance to proc Grand Crusader on Judgment. Whoopdidoo.
And those 100 talents. Good god.
Dull passive cd reduction, stat boost that uses SotR charges, or a passive that'll give me 3% damage reduction on bosses.

So I switched to Warrior. Partially because I think the new Fury is the most fun I've ever had on a melee in WoW. And I want focus on BLOCKING, fighting like a tank should with a shield in hand, not two-handers, bear asses, kegs or warglaives. Doesn't really matter how good Prot paladins will be when it comes to mitigation, it's f'ing boring to play. Which sucks because I absolutely adored MoP/WoD prot pala style of play. I'm more than fine with a design shift towards being more reliant on healers again, but not this garbage.

I played prot in WoD and it was so f'ing boring, you only press all fast to spend the holy power... that was fun? eternal flame will do everything for you.
Now is fun that you need to play good to keep you alive and i case not good, you will still be alive, but your healer wont heal anyone else nor have mana.

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And if so, as someone coming back to tanking, any suggestions?

Please do us all a favor, PLAY IT!!! Opinions are too biased. It will depend your own taste.

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you kick dps to replace them with more tanks in your raids? ok bro

Lmao, i topped dps in almost every beastlord darmac encounter with prot warrior. if just we were all prot warriors it would be faster and no one would take significant damage.

Like doing Blackhand heroic with 10 blood Dks. Logics.