[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

Hp will scale alot faster in legion then ever before. Even if you would crit for a million that heal would still only heal for roughly 30ish % of the nonbear tanks hp and 50ish% of dpsers and healers. Ilvl 850 dpsers and healers will have rougly 2million hp.

Damage patterns are slower instead of instant killing players they will get severly hurt and waste alot of mana on healers. A full durration enveloping mist for me heals for average arround 600k per cast.

Vivify will be casted when there is 3 targets that are hurt. Font also gets worse if raid is to spread its only 25yrd range afterall.

I have tested both sotc and mistwrap in raid. Personally i prefait mistwrap.

[Supliftz]

What can you really do though. Most people don't care for complexity, and that's why mistweaving is perfect for them.

I just don't for the life of me understand how anyone can enjoy enm > vivify > enm > vivify. That rotation is only fine to me if you're stacking haste and have RT talented (basically how you play on tichondrius where mana doesn't matter at all).

[lcs]

If you need mana spec Lifecycles, if not spec Mist Wrap.
Don't cast Vivify without UT.
Enveloping if it won't overheal much.
Spec Crane.
Use TFT for ReM.
Spend the rest of the time afk Soothing.

That's 90% of the questions here answered and the spec's gameplay choices summed up in 5 lines. Boring.

Most of the "choices" MW has left aren't choices at all because there is one clearly optimal choice and the rest are sub-optimal in almost all cases.

Eg: Should I use TFT for free Vivifies to save mana or ReM?
Answer: ReM. Always.

No MW has to decide between TFT Viv or TFT ReM on the fly in a raid. It might seem like a choice but it isn't.

If you were to take any spec and reduce it to 6 strict rules that you never deviate from, it's going to be boring. That's not specific to monks.

If TFT were always meant for ReM we wouldn't be given the option of casting vivify, enveloping or essence font. It would only apply to ReM and nothing else.

If vivify was only meant to be castable when UT procs, it would be uncastable normally and do 50% more baseline when it became available (due to the proc).

There is a whole different set of content coming up called Mythic+ dungeons. They act sort of like challenge modes. Your optimal rotation wouldn't make it past the first couple of levels. Things like instant cast enveloping mist shine in this content.

If you arbitrarily limit what parts of the toolkit you're going use and never deviate from your list of rules you may end up bored, and may not be as "optimal" as you're trying to be. That doesn't mean the class is dumbed down, it just means you've chosen to dumb it down.

[lycrates]

[...] do we really want to use Vivify at any point in time without the UT buff in Legion? Won't Essence Font be better in all aoe scenarios? And isn't Essence Font one of the greatest aoe heals with no CD of all the healing classes?

That is the exact same thing I have been wondering about. I would have thought that people at 110 would be using Essence Font as much as mana would allow considering that (along with ReM and UT Vivify) is our most mana efficient spell and a strong AoE ability. Nevertheless, from what I am reading here the people in Beta have not really been using at 110. I have yet to hear a good explanation of this, but I am sure there are very good reasons. I guess this is the type of thing that we have to see for ourselves to understand.

To me Lifecycles is a talent that forces you to use/waste mana very often to save mana, in other words, i don't really like it, especially with Extend Life tier bonus gone.

To be fair, the Lifecycles buff lasts for a while. You do not need to constantly be spamming Vivify and Enveloping to take advantage of it. You can do a lot of other stuff before casting your next Enveloping or Vivify. In short, you only need to be casting Enveloping and Vivify occasionally to take advantage of the Lifecycles.

[Deleted]

To be fair, the Lifecycles buff lasts for a while. You do not need to constantly be spamming Vivify and Enveloping to take advantage of it. You can do a lot of other stuff before casting your next Enveloping or Vivify. In short, you only need to be casting Enveloping and Vivify occasionally to take advantage of the Lifecycles.

Ofcourse, but i often find the 2 separate spells useful in totally different situations.
Example:
The raid takes a lot of dmg. I will be throwing ReM on CD (with TFT if up), i will be using Essence Font and i will use Vivify on UT proc. I rarely will be throwing EnvM during raid dmg since i feel it won't do as much good as the aoe heals.
The raid is taking little to no dmg. I will still throw ReM on CD. I will want to use EnvM on tanks, since they probably will be taking dmg from the boss. Else i will be passive with Soothing.
These 2 scenarios will never be alternating every 10 sec (rarely atleast). So i will only get usage of the buff like every 30 sec, that just doesn't seem to make it worth the point. Havn't done the math though, so it could be, but atleast it doesn't FEEL very useful.
But as mentioned earlier by someone else, if our heals fills a lot less of peoples health bars, then it might be a totally different story.

[lcs]

Ofcourse, but i often find the 2 separate spells useful in totally different situations.
Example:
The raid takes a lot of dmg. I will be throwing ReM on CD (with TFT if up), i will be using Essence Font and i will use Vivify on UT proc. I rarely will be throwing EnvM during raid dmg since i feel it won't do as much good as the aoe heals.
The raid is taking little to no dmg. I will still throw ReM on CD. I will want to use EnvM on tanks, since they probably will be taking dmg from the boss. Else i will be passive with Soothing.
These 2 scenarios will never be alternating every 10 sec (rarely atleast). So i will only get usage of the buff like every 30 sec, that just doesn't seem to make it worth the point. Havn't done the math though, so it could be, but atleast it doesn't FEEL very useful.
But as mentioned earlier by someone else, if our heals fills a lot less of peoples health bars, then it might be a totally different story.

Your last sentence is probably the most important here.

The healing meta has changed in Legion. Kormrok style fights, where its 5-10 seconds of damage followed by 30 seconds of nothing but tank damage don't really exist anymore.

Its steady damage across most of the raid. Huge 100-0 hits are not commonplace anymore. Sustain is the new meta. Using your mana intelligently and efficiently. Additionally, with huge health pools and reduced AoE potential across the board, you can't blast an entire raid from half health to full anymore in a single spell.

Lifecycles looks like shit in HFC because people are either full health, or almost dead. There isn't much in between. In Legion, there is more opportunity to be able to cast EvM and Vivify back to back and have them be effective.

[Deleted]

As i see it EF is a better heal for steady dmg across the raid, than EnvM and Vivify, which are larger heals on few targets instead of the more spread out on more targets? Though i can see the legendary Waist be a huge factor in preventing the eventual EnvM overheal.
And surely the combination of an EF followed by a Vivify with UT proc, will heal for shittons with the EF buffing GoM. So not pressing EF ever just because Lifecycles seems like a bad idea?

[Grofu]

To me Lifecycles is a talent that forces you to use/waste mana very often to save mana

It's like that old marketing slogan: "The more you spend the more you save!" :-P

[Deleted]

When damage is less bursty you can afford to take your time on the raid healing. There is alot of oppotunity to use the kit wise in the raids in legion. There is bosses where people get high sustained dots thats perfect to use your enveloping+rem to keep them up.

In legion you you can plan to lower the overhealing alot better. Less burst means you can use more mana effective spells. Same goes for other healers as well.

[CParker1987]

What can you really do though. Most people don't care for complexity, and that's why mistweaving is perfect for them.

I just don't for the life of me understand how anyone can enjoy enm > vivify > enm > vivify. That rotation is only fine to me if you're stacking haste and have RT talented (basically how you play on tichondrius where mana doesn't matter at all).

Lets be fair... it's a lot more than just enm > vivify > enm > vivify. There is essence font when the whole raid starts taking damage but you have to pay attention to how much you use it. There is Chi-Ji, knowing when to use him. Revival isn't the "oh shit" spell it use to be so you actually have to follow up with something. Maybe im missing what you're saying though.

You may just be in a raid full of god players but the majority of us are not and its a lot of other little things going on that make it complex. For me specifically, I find it hard to fistweave cause of all the chaos going on in melee. It distracts me and its hard for me to focus on actually healing... therefor I prefer to mistweave from the back. That's just me though

[Tragopan]

So maybe I'm just not playing this class right.. but I don't find Effuse useful at all. Seems that Enveloping mist + Soothing Mist channel does the same thing without having to stop to channel a cast. Also when a tank starts to get bursted if I don't have Life Cacoon up it's RIP. Is this just cause healing is way undertuned right now? Is it cause I'm not 100? (This character is 96 currently).

[Deleted]

So maybe I'm just not playing this class right.. but I don't find Effuse useful at all. Seems that Enveloping mist + Soothing Mist channel does the same thing without having to stop to channel a cast. Also when a tank starts to get bursted if I don't have Life Cacoon up it's RIP. Is this just cause healing is way undertuned right now? Is it cause I'm not 100? (This character is 96 currently).

Healing tanks with a Enveloping mist then use Sheiluns gift on the tank, that gift heal for like a million at 110 wich is pretty good burst healing

[Tragopan]

Fair enough! What about Effuse though?

[lcs]

Fair enough! What about Effuse though?

You can use enveloping mist, then TFT + Effuse and it is pretty powerful.

200% SP Base * 3 * 1.3 = 780% SP

This is stronger than almost all other single target heals.

[Deleted]

You can use enveloping mist, then TFT + Effuse and it is pretty powerful.

200% SP * 2 * 1.3 = 520% SP

This actually beats most other single target heals, except Shadow Mend for disc priests.

Its 200% increased so it become 600 spellpower instead of 200%. So total of 780% spellpower heal when you tea effuse into a mist without mistwrap, 840% with mistwrap..

Highest Sheilun's gift i have done durring 5mans so far is 1.9million crit.

[lcs]

Its 200% increased so it become 600 spellpower instead of 200%. So total of 780% spellpower heal when you tea effuse into a mist without mistwrap, 840% with mistwrap..

Highest Sheilun's gift i have done durring 5mans so far is 1.9million crit.

Right, I did only 100% increased. 780 is right.

[Tragopan]

What about in a regular rotation though? Am I supposed to spam Effuse instead of just channeling Soothing Mist?

[Supliftz]

Lets be fair... it's a lot more than just enm > vivify > enm > vivify. There is essence font when the whole raid starts taking damage but you have to pay attention to how much you use it. There is Chi-Ji, knowing when to use him. Revival isn't the "oh shit" spell it use to be so you actually have to follow up with something. Maybe im missing what you're saying though.

You may just be in a raid full of god players but the majority of us are not and its a lot of other little things going on that make it complex. For me specifically, I find it hard to fistweave cause of all the chaos going on in melee. It distracts me and its hard for me to focus on actually healing... therefor I prefer to mistweave from the back. That's just me though

But if you're playing lifecycles, the only time you can press ef is under mana tea, and mana tea has a pretty clear cut best rotation.

EDIT: rjw buffs look pretty cool. makes us a lot better innervate targets

[Deleted]

If you were to take any spec and reduce it to 6 strict rules that you never deviate from, it's going to be boring. That's not specific to monks.

If TFT were always meant for ReM we wouldn't be given the option of casting vivify, enveloping or essence font. It would only apply to ReM and nothing else.

If vivify was only meant to be castable when UT procs, it would be uncastable normally and do 50% more baseline when it became available (due to the proc).

There is a whole different set of content coming up called Mythic+ dungeons. They act sort of like challenge modes. Your optimal rotation wouldn't make it past the first couple of levels. Things like instant cast enveloping mist shine in this content.

If you arbitrarily limit what parts of the toolkit you're going use and never deviate from your list of rules you may end up bored, and may not be as "optimal" as you're trying to be. That doesn't mean the class is dumbed down, it just means you've chosen to dumb it down.

I think we are mixing up raid and mythic+ here.

[Deleted]

Sadly monks lack of utility like the other healers got might hurt us in the end. Holy priest got hope, druids innervate, paladin blessings / auras. Shamans hp increase, damage reductions, spirit links etc etc. And still having other the healing / tank cd as well.