Opposition to abortion doesn't necessarily make someone a bigot.

[Deleted]

I am all for the right to choose, but I am also of the opinion that if you have an unwanted pregnancy and have an abortion without having used contraceptives, that you are human filth. But its still your choice, regardless of what I think of you.

I didn't say abortion shouldn't be allowed, I said it should never be the first choice. Unless it is a special circumstance.

Pretty much my opinion. Sadly, it's treated entirely too much as a 'first choice'. There are obviously several other choices that are less morally ambiguous and more... Responsible, I guess?

I'm somewhere on the fence, which people rarely acknowledge, in that I both agree abortion should be legal, but disagree it should be societally accepted.

I'm pro-choice. However, I think that abortion is unethical. Just as there should be no law against cheating, there should be no law against abortion. But, both are equally disgusting in my opinion.

I don't really understand these types of people though. Especially the last one. It shouldn't be illegal but fuck everyone who does it for whatever reason and you are disgusting? I mean, I understand it in as much as, some people are arseholes, but that isn't illegal. I guess I just don't understand the human propensity to judge others when you don't know the situation.
And someone earlier also said that anyone who EVER gets an abortion should NEVER be a parent? Wtf is that?

IMO its this judgemental bullshit and calling people you don't even know "disgusting people" that needs to be talked about and changed, more important than the discussion on legalities.

[Xada]

I'm not opposed to abortion, I just never cared for anything that seems like "bad decisions" protection if that makes sense. Yeah, broken condoms and you land the one in a million where the pill wasn't enough, I ain't going to give you any shit. If you got raped and don't want the kid, be my guest. If you were just being a dipshit and didn't use any contraception, both parties involved are just idiots imo.

[chrisfover87]

Words like nazi, racist, bigot, prejudiced, injustice have been abused so much that I dont even find them meaningful any more.

[Hammerfest]

I think it's murder.

[I Push Buttons]

I don't really understand these types of people though. Especially the last one. It shouldn't be illegal but fuck everyone who does it for whatever reason and you are disgusting? I mean, I understand it in as much as, some people are arseholes, but that isn't illegal. I guess I just don't understand the human propensity to judge others when you don't know the situation.

I never said this?

Health of the mother in jeopardy so they have an abortion? No problem. People who get raped and have an abortion? No problem. People who use contraceptives and still get pregnant so they have an abortion? No problem. Perfectly fine, no judgment for any of that.

What excuse is there to not use contraceptives?

You are poor? Ok then don't go around fucking random people getting pregnant? You can't afford like $30 a month birth control or a pack of condoms, but you can afford to go drop hundreds of dollars on an abortion? Hell most major cities have tons of free clinics and planned parenthoods that give the shit away for free if you are young or poor...

[waldona]

I believe that killing children is wrong. Therefore I am a terrible person?

[Xada]

Words like nazi, racist, bigot, prejudiced, injustice have been abused so much that I dont even find them meaningful any more.

Such is the case when morons use these words to describe their boss, the guy that farted in the elevator, or the guy that steals your lunch from the office fridge. These words have serious meaning, some with historical meaning to be tied to it, and to be at a point where we use these words to describe anyone and everyone we don't like. On top of that, we never set people right when they make these statements because we ourselves just consider them just general insults. If I were to say call one of the mods a fascist for infracting me or sending me on a temp forum vacation, I might as well just be calling them an idiot, because lets face it, the comparison of me getting an infraction or forum ban is absolutely nothing compared to fascist dictators people have actually lived under (Mussolini, Hitler, etc...).

[Hammerfest]

Words like nazi, racist, bigot, prejudiced, injustice have been abused so much that I dont even find them meaningful any more.

I agree with this.

[Wikiy]

Most anti-abortion people truly aren't anti-women. They're simply plainly wrong. They believe abortion is wrong because you're aborting a conscious being. Well, heck, I believe that too, if you're aborting it somewhere after the 5th or 6th month into the pregnancy. What people need to learn is that the fetus doesn't have a developed enough nervous system that early to be conscious of anything. Killing it prior to that really is tantamount to excising a tumor.

[pmkaboo]

i find it quite ironic how some people care so much about some fetus, but dont give a rats ass about well being of actually born kids.

[sethman75]

OP you mostly have it right but the real name for these guys are the degenerate left. They are anything but progressive

[Deleted]

I never said this?

Health of the mother in jeopardy so they have an abortion? No problem. People who get raped and have an abortion? No problem. People who use contraceptives and still get pregnant so they have an abortion? No problem. Perfectly fine, no judgment for any of that.

What excuse is there to not use contraceptives?

You are poor? Ok then don't go around fucking random people getting pregnant? You can't afford like $30 a month birth control or a pack of condoms, but you can afford to go drop hundreds of dollars on an abortion? Hell most major cities have tons of free clinics and planned parenthoods that give the shit away for free if you are young or poor...

I never said you said that. But read the other people I quoted. some people literally did say that.
"What excuse is there to not use contraceptives? You are poor? Don't fuck random people" - but how do you KNOW which of the people waiting in an abortion clinic are waiting for those reasons and which ones are waiting because contraception failed, or they were raped? You don't. And I'm not saying you do this, but it seems a lot of people will just see or hear that someones had an abortion and assume it was for one of the reasons you gave and judge the women accordingly, when really you know nothing.

[Dragoncurry]

Posted this as a CMV on Reddit and nobody's presented a strong enough argument to counter it yet, at least in my eyes, so here goes nothing. I'm pretty pro-choice and recognize that access to abortion is better than the alternative from a personal liberty perspective, from a societal perspective and from a healthcare (of the mother) perspective.

With that being said, I think that the progressive left is wrong to assume that anyone who disagrees with them on this, including other women, are bigots or that they hate women. In a way it's in the progressive left's best interest to accuse any detractors of being bigoted misogynists, because it helps them control the national dialogue and shut down their opponents, rather than engaging in debate and dialogue. It's an effective, albeit nefarious means of berating and defeating one's opposition.

However, from a societal perspective, I think it would be best if pro-choice argued the merits of our position, instead of shouting down our opponents as terrible human beings. And I would go a step further argue that opposition to abortion doesn't necessarily make someone a terrible human being.

A few years ago I probably would have told you that these people were all just bigots. And while some of them probably do hold negative views of women, I don't think that's a fair representation of their beliefs. A couple of semesters ago I met a few conservative Christians who held some pretty strong 'pro-life' views. And while we never agreed on such topics, I don't think they were coming from a place of hatred or bigotry.

The most vocal member of the group was a female engineering student who was probably far better equipped to succeed in the workforce than the vast majority of people, regardless of gender. And these were the type of people who wouldn't stand for someone they associate with expressing bigoted or hateful views of women or minorities; they even worked with the Muslim club on campus. Most of them seem to legitimately believe that life begins at conception and aren't just trying to oppress women.

In closing, while I realize my experience is anecdotal, I think it speaks to a broader point. A point that opposition to abortion doesn't automatically make someone a bigot or a terrible person, it just makes them misguided. It would be best to argue why their ideas are wrong, rather than to demonize them.

I mean your argument is very specific to "they may not necessarily be bigots if they are pro-life". They are. They are intolerant of those who believe in pro-choice. Similarly, people who are pro-choice are also bigots, as they are intolerant of religious folk and their beliefs. That's just the definition.

What are you trying to argue?

[I Push Buttons]

I never said you said that. But read the other people I quoted. some people literally did say that.
"What excuse is there to not use contraceptives? You are poor? Don't fuck random people" - but how do you KNOW which of the people waiting in an abortion clinic are waiting for those reasons and which ones are waiting because contraception failed, or they were raped? You don't. And I'm not saying you do this, but it seems a lot of people will just see or hear that someones had an abortion and assume it was for one of the reasons you gave and judge the women accordingly, when really you know nothing.

I don't do that, usually with the people that I think are scum, they don't beat around the bush... They let people know they had an abortion, they let people know they didn't use contraceptives... They are literally just shit tier people...

A "friend" of mine (more like a friend of a friend) got his girlfriend pregnant a year ago... She didn't use birth control obviously and I asked him why he didn't use condoms... "I don't like them..." They had abortion...

He wasn't poor, we both grew up in the same affluent area, went to the same school, with the same sex ed (so its not like southern kids who might actually be ignorant of this shit since Republicans teach them the bible instead of safe sex), etc... They both knew what would happen, didn't use contraceptives anyways, got pregnant and then aborted it...

That, in my humble opinion, is absolute scumbag material... I don't happen to frequent abortion clinics friend ()... So I don't assume anything about anyone regarding this subject... The only people I know who have had abortions make their voices heard loud and clear about it.

[Eazy]

No he isn't at all. A zygote isn't a human life. It doesn't have a personality or a mind. Just cause he spent 2 paragraphs explaining it, doesn't mean he's wrong.

Someone failed in biology class.

Who is killing children?

He probably meant people who are doing abortions.

[Deleted]

Not just time. A heck of a lot more is necessary. And regardless, your argument is still that your imaginary ideas should have relevance to actual reality.

What? a foetus has potential, a liver does not.
You feel free not to care about that potential all you like, comparing a foetus to a liver remains a really warped comparison.

You act as if this challenge is somehow gonna make me rethink my argument, but it's nothing but a naked appeal to emotion. Oh, look at the premie, you monster.

That's not an argument.

Pointing out that your definition of person hood is absurd is an appeal to emotion?
No its pointing out its absurd.

No, it isn't. Sea slugs are capable of independent respiratory function. Are they "people"?

No they are alive - that is all a medical or biological definition is concerned with Animate or Inanimate.

Welcome to the discussion. "Personhood" isn't a medical question. That's literally never been the argument.

then stop talking about medicine or biology, because beyond not being relevant for person hood, your grasp is rather weak.

If you bothered to read fetal homicide laws, not only is your statement here objectively not correct, it's often explicitly detailed that it is not correct. A form of personhood is granted to the fetus for the purpose of that specific charge, and that's all. It is not otherwise considered a human being.

Its considered a human being for the purpose of estate law for one - regardless read up on fetal homicide some more and you see this:

... the bill would not "be construed to permit the prosecution" "of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf", "of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child" or "of any woman with respect to her unborn child."

Again the law defines it as a person for the purposes anything other than an abortion.
Making the definition of person hood be subject to a third party.
That's an absurd and inconsistent definition.

Again, I'm cool with a definition that leads to having to investigate miscarriages, because that is an implication of a sound argument, whereas yours is just absurd.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I think it should be outlawed, not because I'm overly religious but because I think children are precious gifts, not burdens. And that pregnant women in distress are tricked into believing an abortion is in their best interests when in reality they'll regret it for the rest of their lives.

It's like convincing a starving man to swallow poison to sate his hunger. We need to protect women from falling for it.

And before someone calls me a sexist, there are countless women out there who agree. My wife included. As a matter of the fact she changed my mind on the issue.

Thats super...and when you convince Congress to divert a billion or so dollars to put into properly funded orphanages (so all the given up babies have somewhere to go) and pregnancy prevention education and items (so we can eliminate or highly reduce unwanted pregnancy) then we can have that conversation. Until then you are just spouting the usual Republican bullshit about life being precious while funneling billions into programs designed to kill as many people as possible.

[Krigaren]

Many states have fetus homicide, where the criminal death of a fetus is MURDER with the exception of abortion. Which is ridiculous, so we recognize the fetus as human enough to warrant murder charges and upto life sentencing in many states but still say its ok to abort that same fetus as long as it is legal.

The reason for fetal homicide charges isn't based on the fact that the fetus is a human. It's based on the fact that it was a wanted life that was destroyed. If the mother wanted to see the pregnancy to term with the intention of giving birth to a baby, it is and should be a crime to forcefully remove that choice from her. Just like it would be illegal for a doctor to abort a fetus without the mother's consent.

Feticide laws do not apply to lawful abortions in order to protect the mother's rights to bodily autonomy. Just like it's completely lawful for me to smash the absolute shit out of my car if I want to, but if someone else did it, it'd be a crime.

[Sargerasraider]

Thats super...and when you convince Congress to divert a billion or so dollars to put into properly funded orphanages (so all the given up babies have somewhere to go) and pregnancy prevention education and items (so we can eliminate or highly reduce unwanted pregnancy) then we can have that conversation. Until then you are just spouting the usual Republican bullshit about life being precious while funneling billions into programs designed to kill as many people as possible.

This silly argument again. A belief that an entity has a right to life does not necessitate indefinite monetary support of that life. If I choose not to give money to a homeless person on a street corner, that does not diminish his or her right to life.

We don't condone killing the elderly, disabled, or poor because our government support is not good enough.

Most anti-abortion people truly aren't anti-women. They're simply plainly wrong. They believe abortion is wrong because you're aborting a conscious being. Well, heck, I believe that too, if you're aborting it somewhere after the 5th or 6th month into the pregnancy. What people need to learn is that the fetus doesn't have a developed enough nervous system that early to be conscious of anything. Killing it prior to that really is tantamount to excising a tumor.

What a woefully arbitrary definition. Shall we legalize the killing of people in a coma, or those with neurological injuries?

[Ehrenpanzer]

This silly argument again. A belief that an entity has a right to life does not necessitate indefinite monetary support of that life.

We don't condone killing the elderly, disabled, or poor because our government support is not good enough.

No, this common sense argument again.. If you are going to make abortion ILLEGAL, you damn sure better have a support system in place for all the new children