[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[CenariusTheForestLord]

so, fairly uselkess question: agi pot or versatility pot? is it even close?

Agi for dps opener. Versatility for survival during the fight. If not needed, agi as well.

[Takeshiren]

Hi guys,

Just did my first heroic run as a tank druid and it went well tanking wise. But damage wise I lacked massively, bare in mind I'm only around 693 ilvl, so I understand gear is a big factor for it. But I was only doing 20-25k dps. I wasn't utilizing cat DPS as I was worried about dying a bit too much. But does anyone have any hints for bearcat? Or what I should be doing please!

Thanks all!

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Hi guys,

Just did my first heroic run as a tank druid and it went well tanking wise. But damage wise I lacked massively, bare in mind I'm only around 693 ilvl, so I understand gear is a big factor for it. But I was only doing 20-25k dps. I wasn't utilizing cat DPS as I was worried about dying a bit too much. But does anyone have any hints for bearcat? Or what I should be doing please!

Thanks all!

Gear is a massive factor for dps. Bearcat should onyl be used when not actively tanking, so you can't be afraid of dying then.
When doing bearcat, just put up your bleeds and switch back, when you've then put up your bleeds/dots in bear form and used mangle, swap back to cat.
Bearcat should also only be used on ST. Swipe is OP damagewise on AOE. So stay in bear for that.
I've managed to get top 6 world without using bearcat btw. So it's only a small boost. I'm also using the alchemy trinket and mirror for dps.

[DDM]

I’d like to know, what you think about my plan for legion:
As I heard, balance shouldn’t be ideal for lvling i’m thinking about getting gear for bear and lvl as tank including the tank artifact as the first one. (Second balance). With reaching 110 i want to go into the dungeons with my guild and also tank there. Getting gear for bear to make the dungeon runs easier and then getting gear for balance to be ready for raiding as balance.
13 points at first into the tank artifact and after that everything in the balance artifact for raiding. As i want to use bear only for the dungeons, “Adaptive Fur” should be the best golden one?

TLDR: Getting some gear, lvling as tank, gearing up as tank, 13 points in tank artifact to “Adaptive Fur” for dungeons to run them with the guild and getting equip for balance for raiding.
Good idea? Bad idea?
I don’t have access to beta, so i can’t really decide if this plan makes sense or not.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

I’d like to know, what you think about my plan for legion:
As I heard, balance shouldn’t be ideal for lvling i’m thinking about getting gear for bear and lvl as tank including the tank artifact as the first one. (Second balance). With reaching 110 i want to go into the dungeons with my guild and also tank there. Getting gear for bear to make the dungeon runs easier and then getting gear for balance to be ready for raiding as balance.
13 points at first into the tank artifact and after that everything in the balance artifact for raiding. As i want to use bear only for the dungeons, “Adaptive Fur” should be the best golden one?

TLDR: Getting some gear, lvling as tank, gearing up as tank, 13 points in tank artifact to “Adaptive Fur” for dungeons to run them with the guild and getting equip for balance for raiding.
Good idea? Bad idea?
I don’t have access to beta, so i can’t really decide if this plan makes sense or not.

Gory fur man, Gory fur.
But if you want to raid as balance I wouldn't put any points in the guardian artifact at all.

[DDM]

I thought Adaptive Fur might be better in dungeons than Gory Fur because there are often a lot of mobs you tank simultaneously, lots of dots, caster mobs … which results in a good amount of using the dmg reduction. I agree, this might be not the best talent for raiding but for dungeons?
Or is the increased duration and the rage reduction of Ironfur and Marc of Ursol way better. It seems very good by checking it again.

And 13 points in the tank artifact because they are fairly cheap and don’t make a big loss if you are not looking for world firsts like i/we do. We are just raiding casual.

[Drib]

I thought Adaptive Fur might be better in dungeons than Gory Fur because there are often a lot of mobs you tank simultaneously, lots of dots, caster mobs … which results in a good amount of using the dmg reduction. I agree, this might be not the best talent for raiding but for dungeons?
Or is the increased duration and the rage reduction of Ironfur and Marc of Ursol way better. It seems very good by checking it again.

And 13 points in the tank artifact because they are fairly cheap and don’t make a big loss if you are not looking for world firsts like i/we do. We are just raiding casual.

When doing only fast dungeons, I would sugguest going only for Embrace over the top way for Thrash dmg, since you won't be hanging around in single target fights alot. Also the Gory Fur benifit in short fights, as in Dungeons, is not that much at all.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

When doing only fast dungeons, I would sugguest going only for Embrace over the top way for Thrash dmg, since you won't be hanging around in single target fights alot. Also the Gory Fur benifit in short fights, as in Dungeons, is not that much at all.

The minor trait with 1.5s increase on AM is really good though.

[Kujako]

After running various raids over the weekend, Bear threat seems REALLY low...

[Nevcairiel]

After running various raids over the weekend, Bear threat seems REALLY low...

After running some raids the last week, bear threat seems fine.

Now its up to you to provide any kind of evidence instead of just random remarks without background.

[zurm]

After running some raids the last week, bear threat seems fine.

Now its up to you to provide any kind of evidence instead of just random remarks without background.

If we're talking about live, I posted the WCL (link below) to the druid discord a little while ago. I'm doing about 35% more dmg than my pally co-tank, but have threat on like nothing. We basically boiled it down to the pally trinket's proc being broken when it comes to threat. This is just one trash pull, but there's tons of times I have to preemptively taunt bosses while I have threat just to keep threat, and I struggle to keep threat on trash, even though our gear is very similar.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=18

This is a particularly good example because there's no taunts, no misdirects, just raw attacks. But it also does show that dmg does not correlate directly to threat, and it would be nice to see two tanks at similar ilvl do similar threat. SUPPOSEDLY it's not a big issue at 110, outside of pallys' big CD combo they can do every 2 min (wings + seraphim + something else?). That said, one thing me and my pally co-tank have agreed on is that threat IS something tanks are responsible for, just like personal survival. Outside of pugs, if your co-tank is ripping threat off you, he should be working with you to resolve that. In general, I have heard plate tanks seem a bit ahead on threat.

Still, the TLDR is that threat IS broken at level 100, at least against a paladin tank using the class trinket. I have HEARD DK's are also troublesome for bears, though I have no logs to back it up. Generally speaking, the onus is on you to prove someone else wrong with facts... you know, innocent until proven guilty? :P

[Kujako]

If we're talking about live, I posted the WCL (link below) to the druid discord a little while ago. I'm doing about 35% more dmg than my pally co-tank, but have threat on like nothing. We basically boiled it down to the pally trinket's proc being broken when it comes to threat. This is just one trash pull, but there's tons of times I have to preemptively taunt bosses while I have threat just to keep threat, and I struggle to keep threat on trash, even though our gear is very similar.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=18

This is a particularly good example because there's no taunts, no misdirects, just raw attacks. But it also does show that dmg does not correlate directly to threat, and it would be nice to see two tanks at similar ilvl do similar threat. SUPPOSEDLY it's not a big issue at 110, outside of pallys' big CD combo they can do every 2 min (wings + seraphim + something else?). That said, one thing me and my pally co-tank have agreed on is that threat IS something tanks are responsible for, just like personal survival. Outside of pugs, if your co-tank is ripping threat off you, he should be working with you to resolve that. In general, plate tanks seem a bit ahead on threat.

Still, the TLDR is that threat IS broken at level 100, at least against a paladin tank using the class trinket. I have HEARD DK's are also troublesome for bears, though I have no logs to back it up. Generally speaking, the onus is on you to prove someone else wrong with facts... you know, innocent until proven guilty? :P

That more or less matches what I'm seeing. My damage is higher, but I'll go from 115% threat to ~50% in an instant. Paladin trinket could be a culprit. Does make it hard to figure out where we stand currently... ah well.

[Nevcairiel]

Still, the TLDR is that threat IS broken at level 100, at least against a paladin tank using the class trinket. I have HEARD DK's are also troublesome for bears, though I have no logs to back it up.

Well thats part of the point I wanted to make earlier - Druids are fine, its just some other tanks that are broken and do way too much threat right now, especially paladins and to some degree DKs. People around here talk like druids lose threat to DPSers all the time.

[globezorz]

What's the Druid discord??

[Dreyen]

[QUOTE=zurm;41680455]If we're talking about live, I posted the WCL (link below) to the druid discord a little while ago. I'm doing about 35% more dmg than my pally co-tank, but have threat on like nothing. We basically boiled it down to the pally trinket's proc being broken when it comes to threat. This is just one trash pull, but there's tons of times I have to preemptively taunt bosses while I have threat just to keep threat, and I struggle to keep threat on trash, even though our gear is very similar.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=18/QUOTE]



And i've replied explaining why he won threat. Yes he did get a misdirect, there is a tricks of the trade on him.

[zurm]

Well thats part of the point I wanted to make earlier - Druids are fine, its just some other tanks that are broken and do way too much threat right now, especially paladins and to some degree DKs. People around here talk like druids lose threat to DPSers all the time.

I definitely agree that threat vs DPS is a non-issue. I'd argue in general we're on the lower end of threat among tanks, but that's anecdotal and I simply don't have the time or patience to pour through beta and live logs to make my case. While some causes will go away (ie paladin class trinket) others have the possibility of making the disparity worse (ie the fact that the plate tanks have way more DPS traits than we do).

[Deleted]

But if threat vs DPS is not an issue, why does this matter at all?
Seems like an advantage even: allows us to go all out on dps while offtanking without risking to steal agro.

edit: ok, following that logic, it may be an issue for plate offtanks who want to DPS.

[zurm]

And i've replied explaining why he won threat. Yes he did get a misdirect, there is a tricks of the trade on him.

I guess that's my bad, I never saw that message on discord.

[Gemini Soul]

After running some raids the last week, bear threat seems fine.

Now its up to you to provide any kind of evidence instead of just random remarks without background.

Now its up to you to provide any kind of evidence instead of just random remarks without background.

[Drib]

Powershapeshift removed again!